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    • Pubs all seem to be doing a roaring trade around here. It does make me feel uncomfortable but At least they are finally making some money. Our area, the South West never really got hit badly by the pandemic. Wiltshire has regularly seeing zero confirmed cases and deaths. So we will have to see how opening pubs really pans out!     
    • Thanks for filling in the forum sticky and well done on reading up.  The more info. we all take in, the more we know what the real legal position is and how to fight sharks like CEL.   As you'll have seen, CEL are one of the most dishonest and greediest of the PPCs.  If you had indisputable proof that your car was on Mars at the time, they'd find a way to reject your appeal!  Sadly POPLA has become more & more useless, as your experience shows.  Instead of managing the car park in a professional manner, it's highly likely that CEL don't illuminate the signs at night deliberately in order to catch out motorists like yourself.   The good news is that the only person who can make you pay this "debt" is a judge, after a court case.  So from now on ignore any begging letters from CEL and/or their rent-a-threat DCAs, but do not ignore a Letter Before Action/Claim which is a formal notice of intention to start court proceedings.  However, don't waste your time while ignoring them, build a case.  Like dx says, look up the planning permission.  If the KFC is local to you, go back in the evening and get pix of their pathetic signage.  Please post up what you wrote in your appeal too.   As a belt & braces approach, get on to KFC and demand they cancel the ticket.  Show all the proof you were a genuine customer and point out that you stayed an extra 19 minutes because you were consuming more food & drink!  However, what we often find is that the bod who runs the local branch often doesn't have much power, so don't faff around.  If the local branch don't cancel within 48 hours get on to to the area manager, and if you get no joy there in 48 hours go to CEO level.   It's highly likely that if you had complained to KFC straight away and ignored CEL's kangaroo court procedure that the matter would have been resolved there & then, but hey, what is done is done and you still have a great chance of seeing off these fleecers.
    • if you are twisting sideways to takaway pubs? rather than opening pubs as you initially referred   ... thats always been cheaper at off licences and supermarkets isn't it, and rather defeats the point of pubs, and restaurants?   WHAT are you actually saying/claiming/suggestion if anything?
    • They have got a plan https://www.gov.uk/guidance/working-safely-during-coronavirus-covid-19/restaurants-offering-takeaway-or-delivery   It seems pretty clear to me.
    • do you mean they are saying lowells got a CCJ by legal proceedings? if so when?
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I have a letter of intended litigation from these 'pleasant' people. What do i do with it??!! Or do i contact Sainsburys...who i held the debt with..

 

Confused...

 

Jan:!:

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An "intention" from these clowns will never actually turn into a reality :rolleyes:

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Do i ignore it then??? And should i contact Sainsburys? Last contact with them was Nov 2008, offering a £1 a month. (Heard nothing)

I owe them £2,700 :(

 

Jan (getting stressed!)

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i would send moorcroft a cca request. you need to include a £1po and send recorded this will ensure they have the paperwork that would entitle them to collect,

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/581-cca-request-letter

 

ida x


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These people have phoned me asking for repayment. I informed them i would only deal with them by letter, they do not own the debt, Sainsburys do. They are acting on their behalf. Who do i deal with??? Confused! I have my postal order all ready to send with letter.

Any advice please??

 

Jan :?

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Send the request to Sainsburys, copy Moorcroft.

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Thanks! Do i provide a financial statement with this?

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No, they are not entitled to any such information. Just send a straightforward CCA request along with a £1 payment.

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Thanks! Do i provide a financial statement with this?

No, your finances are none of their business.

 

Send the CCA request, wait 14 working days after you post it, then if there is no response, you will need to post here again to let us know what the position is.

 

If you are still making a payment, continue with this for the moment.

 

In your letter to Moorcroft, tell them that you are dealing directly with Sainsbury's regarding your dispute.

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Thank you. Will get 2 letters done today! All sounds very official however, as i do owe the money, just cannot afford to pay it back!! :cool:

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Thank you. Will get 2 letters done today! All sounds very official however, as i do owe the money, just cannot afford to pay it back!! :cool:

Same as most of us, but you cannot be sure that they have applied the correct interest etc.

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You may feel that you owe the money morally, and that's fine. But you may not owe the money legally, or at least it cannot be enforced legally. That puts you in a much better negotiating position when it comes to repaying the money. You can usually get a very good settlement figure in such cases.

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I used to be of that mind, but since every taxpayer in the country paid £43,000 to bail out the banks I don't feel so bad. The moral argument is now defunct only leaving the legal one. Thats only the OCs when it comes to DCAs, they are no better than loan sharks, so they deserve nothing.

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Well here goes...letters going recorded delivery tomorrow morning. Interest has been frozen on this debt since November 2008, however i notice that there are late fees and interest added prior to that, but i suspect thats a whole new ball game to tackle when i get a response.

 

Many thanks for all your help. x

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Jan - don't worry about Morecrap. All bark and no bite. Send them the CCA, and post your response. They likely don't have an enforceable agreement on hand so will suspend action anyway.

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They will probably either

 

1. Ignore you completely or

2. Send a letter saying the matter is closed on their books and then pass it to Scotcall who are even more of a pussycat to deal with.

 

Scotcall cannot call at your house to 'assess your property prior to removal for sale' as is their latest 'initiative' and 'if you do not co-operate this will be mentioned at an oral hearing in the court without further notice to yourself'.

 

Westcot, Moorcroft (who are again advertising in London newspapers for 'doorstep collectors' on a commission only basis - what DO they do with the doorsteps they collect?" and Scotcall are the bottom of the food chain as far as DCAs go.

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Moorcr*p are getting desparate lately........ mums just had one of their begging letters telling her they may go to court over a missed £12.24 final instalment of dads car insurance to direct line last year. He passed away 8 months ago so me thinks they can whistle.

 

Would go down the route of telling them the error of their ways but it seems such a waste of paper and mums quite happy to tell them to FO if they ring.

 

Just shows what a shower of sh*t they are

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Have you advised them that the insured has passed away.

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Have you advised them that the insured has passed away.

 

Yup, posted r/d last Thursday..... they received it yesterday aaaaaaaaaaaand still they called this morning, tbh think mums enjoying the attention (and the conversation) - 74 and can still shock me with her dirty mouth :grin:

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Just an update. Sent 2 letters, one to Moorcroft and one to Sainsburys, recorded delivery. The 14 days was up on the 7th Oct. Have heard absolutely nothing?!

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Send them this one next.

 

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

Further to my request under the above act, your attention is drawn to the fact that this account is subject to a serious dispute. On 27/03/09, by recorded delivery, I requested that you supply me a copy of the executed credit agreement covering this account pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 78, a copy of this request is enclosed. To date you have failed to comply with my request. Without production of the said agreement I am unable to assess if I am indeed liable for any alleged debt to you, nor does it give me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’ as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

For the avoidance of any doubt I have included section 78(1) and 78(6) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which states…

 

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing ( 12 working days + 2 ) to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

(a) the state of the account, and

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

 

Clearly as no agreement has been supplied on request, you have not complied with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and I now draw your attention to section 78 subsection 6 which states If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

 

Clearly this is a situation as described in S.78(6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the debt is unenforceable at this time. In addition, I draw your attention to section 127 (3) Consumer Credit Act 1974 which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the consumer credit act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

To clarify S.61(1) states

 

(1)A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

 

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

© The document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible

 

In addition the prescribed terms referred to in section 60 CCA1974 are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following—

 

1.Number of repayments;

2.Amount of repayments;

3.Frequency and timing of repayments;

4.Dates of repayments;

5.The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable

 

Therefore based upon the Consumer Credit Act 1974 this debt as it stands is unenforceable and should this proceed to litigation, a court is precluded from making an enforcement order under section 127(3) unless a true copy of the signed agreement is produced..

 

At the point where this account entered into the default situation as described in s78 (6) CCA 1974 no other charges are allowed to be added until such time as you become compliant with my request. As you are still not in compliance with my request I insist that the following takes place with immediate effect.

 

All entries which refer to missed payments be removed from my credit file

All collection activities cease with immediate effect until you comply with my request from 27/03/09 or such time as a court makes an enforcement order.

In addition, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on Debt Collection

 

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

 

What I Require.

 

I require that you send me a true signed copy of the executed agreement as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you are unable to supply the requested documentation because no such agreement is in existence I require written clarification as such.

 

I require that you comply with my request within 7 days of the date of this letter. I will not correspond any further with you until I either receive a copy of the requested documents as laid down in section 78(1) CCA 74 or clarification that such agreement doesn’t exist. I am advised that should you persist in pursuing this debt ignoring the above information you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well

No other correspondence will be accepted

I would remind you that while this alleged account remains in dispute, that xxxxx:

  • May not ask for payment against this account.
  • I am not obliged to offer any payment against this account.
  • Cannot register any data with a third party.
  • Cannot take any enforcement action, including registering Defaults.
  • Cannot pass the account on to a third party for collection.
  • Cannot sell the account.

Should you attempt litigation it will be vigorously defended and the failure to supply documentation under the CCA 1974 is a complete defence to any legal action and your actions will be vexatious and unlawful

 

I trust this out lines the situation

Yours faithfully

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Whoah.... heavy!! I'll send it, but have no idea what it all means?!

Do i send it to Sainsburys or Moorcroft?

Thanks.

Jan

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Whoah.... heavy!! I'll send it, but have no idea what it all means?!

Do i send it to Sainsburys or Moorcroft?

Thanks.

Jan

Send it to whoever you sent the CCA request to and copy in the other.

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