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Robinson Way CCJ and CPR18 request

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Hi

 

Having received an N1 from Robinson Way and replied with a CPR18 request, I got back a few sheets of computer printout with nothing much than a few figures, certainly not copies of everything they must hold.

 

What should I send them in reply please??

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send a subject access request first and see what you get

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Hi, already done that and got nothing back. I really need to write to them and tell them that what they have sent me is unacceptable but I want to make sure I word it properly. Just some advice on what I need to include in it would be great. Having sent them the brilliant CPR18 request letter I want to keep up the illusion that I appear to know what I'm talking about :):)

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If theyve not given you the required documentation, you would file an embarrassed defence due to their lack of information. There should be a template for it

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Can't find it. Anyone know where to look?

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Forgive me, but I'm getting very confused here.... Is this the correct letter I should send?

 

 

 

 

 

##############################################

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Re: Robbers Way v Brighteyes Case No: xxxxxxxxx

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On x July 2009, I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the Northampton County Court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of each of the following documents:

 

 

  • The agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the full contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

 

  • The assignment

 

3. The default notice

 

4. The termination notice

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any versions to include an obligation to recover and preserve such versions which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

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OK Hang in there, do you understand the letter you will be sending out? Its important to know your case inside out, I suggest you look over the CPR rules to understand the points . I'll highlight this thread so a mod can assist with it. There are procedures we need to follow.

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What exactly does it say on your POC (particulars of claim).

 

In the CPR 31.14 you can ask for the documents they mention.

 

eg.. if they have said something like..

 

Claiming for a sum in respect of an agreement/contract regulated by the Consumer Credit Act.. then you can ask to see a copy of the agreement. If they say they issued a default notice /termination letter/formal demand, then you can ask for copies of those.

 

If they continue to refuse to send you paperwork that you require in order for you to put in a fully particularised defence then you would need to put in an embarrassed / holding defence and ask at the AQ (next step) for the Court to order them to comply .

 

If you can just post here what they have said in the claim form then you can be helped more fully. The sum they are requesting.. is it above or below £5,000.

 

Have a read of the first post in the following link, which contains the following CPR letter provided by surfaceagentx20.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/159445-getting-them-reveal-their.html

 

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) County Court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

[Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered a request for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. That request was ignored][delete if no such request was delivered]

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1 the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 the assignment*

 

3 the default notice*

 

4 the termination notice*

 

5 [any other documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim]*

 

* delete if not mentioned in the Particulars of claim.

 

[Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise]#

 

# delete if claim for a sum exceeding £5,000.00

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

yours faithfully

 

You will also need to know how they have made up the sum they are claiming, so do you have statements in order to calculate if any late payment charges or other fees have been included in the amount claimed.


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Hi, thanks for this. I'm getting so confused!!!

 

The wording of the POC is as follows:

 

THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS OUTSTANDING MONIES DUE AND PAYABLE BY THE DEFENDANT UNDER A CREDIT AGREEMENT WHEREBY THE DEFENDANT AGREED TO REPAY WITH INTEREST THE VALUE OF THE CREDIT OBTAINED.

 

AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS

1. THE SUM OF 13424.84

2. INTEREST PURSUANT TO S69 OF THE COUNTY COURT ACT 1984 AT THE RATE OF 8.00% FROM 8/11/07 TO DATE HEREOF 600 DAYS IS THE SUM OF 1765.44

3. FUTURE INTEREST ACCRUING AT THE DAILY RATE OF 2.94 4. COSTS

 

I've replied to them online saying we are going to defend the case and then sent the CPR 18 letter to Horwich Farrelly and got a few pages of vague computer printout in return together with the bad photocopy that they've sent me before with no continuation sheet. They've sent me this a few times but always just the front sheet and nothing attached despite me asking them to send everything.

 

HSBCCCA.jpg

 

 

 

RWpage1copy.jpg

 

rwpage2.jpg

 

rw4copy.jpg

 

rw4copy.jpg

 

Hope this makes more sense to you than it does to me.......

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OK so its a business loan? regulated by the terms on the following pages which are missing. because it states at the bottom page 1 of 1.

Its unsecured also, so they might try for SJ to get it secured.

The other docs are just credit ref stuff, which shows theyve trashed your credit file.

Right so you need to get a draft of your defence up here, also get your CPR request ready, post it up for comment.

Try to get your paperwork organised in chronological order so you can follow it, also this'll help any court follow it as well.

Keep an eye on your timing so you can get your defence in on time.

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It was a business loan but it was not in the business name - it was in my OH's name. We defaulted when the business folded and we were paying Metropolitan about £30 a month. Then one day last year, I got a really s****y phone call from RW (although it was only later I discovered who they were) demanding money but we never received any kind of assignment and when we contacted HSBC, they said they had no record of us at all. That's why we stopped paying them - they wouldn't give us any of the information we requested from them.

 

I started another thread "Should we go bankrupt - vague court claim?"

 

I've already done a CPR18 request and this is what they sent us in reply. What CPR request do I need to do now? Sorry if I'm appearing a bit thick but we've got loads of CCs threatening us as well which I'm also trying to deal with but this is the most urgent as it's the only one that has gone to court.

 

Thanks for all your help

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OK try not to panic, as this account is the most urgent. Get everything ready for court, youve already acknowledged receipt and youre defending, so draft up what I said, post up as much about the account as possible so others can help, (Minus your details of course,) pretty soon youll have a good idea of where you stand

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Is this right for the CPR request?

 

 

 

 

 

Re: Robinson Way & Co Ltd v xxxxxxxx Case No:

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On 2 July 2009, I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the Northampton County Court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of each of the following documents:

 

 

  • The agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the full contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2. The assignment

3. The default notice

 

4. The termination notice

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any versions to include an obligation to recover and preserve such versions which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

xxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

 

 

and this for defence?

 

 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

 

COUNTY COURT CLAIM NO:

On Transfer from the

NORTHAMPTON COUNTY COURT

 

BETWEEN

 

 

Robinson Way & Co Ltd

CLAIMANT

And

Brighteyes24

DEFENDANT

 

Amended DEFENCE pursuant to Order dated

 

  • The Defendant admits that he signed a document provided by HSBC Bank . The precise terms and date of any such alleged agreement are not admitted. The Claimant is put to strict proof as to the date and terms of such agreement.

 

 

  • It is averred that the aforesaid agreement was a regulated agreement within the terms of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. It is denied that the Agreement is enforceable within the terms of the Act in that the Defendant avers that the aforesaid alleged agreement does not contain the Statutory Particulars as to payment, rate of interest and calculation of credit limit. It is further averred that the alleged agreement is defective in that it is not executed by or upon behalf of HSBC Bank Limited.

 

 

  • It is not admitted that the aforesaid alleged agreement was lawfully assigned to the Claimant. The Claimant is put to strict proof that such a Lawful Assignment took place.

 

 

  • If, which is not admitted, a lawful assignment to the Claimant did occur it is denied that the notice required by the Law of Property Act was served upon the Defendant. It is averred that the notice upon which the Claimant relies was defective in that the sums referred to by the said notice as being owing under the alleged agreement were inaccurate thereby rendering the whole notice a invalid.

 

 

  • Further and in the alternative if, which is not admitted, an enforceable agreement is in existence it is not admitted that any or all of the monies claimed are lawfully owing. The Claimant is put to strict proof as to how the sums claimed have been calculated and as tohow those sums are lawfully owing.
  • The Defendant is not in possession of a Default Notice. It is not admitted that the Defendant was served with a Default Notice pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant is put to strict proof as to the service and content of any Default Notice.

 

 

  • Further it is denied that both the alleged contractual interest and the alleged contractual account charges which have been claimed are lawfully owing in that it is averred that not only is there no contractual basis for the sums claimed but also that the sums claimed are in any event unfair and in breach of the general law.

 

In view of the foregoing it is denied that the Defendant is indebted to the Claimant as alleged or at all.

 

Counterclaim

 

The Defendant repeats the defence herein

 

The Defendant seeks a declaration from the Court that the aforesaid agreement is unenforceable in that it does not contain the statutory particulars and is not properly executed.

 

 

Statement of Truth

I believe that the facts stated in this defence are true.

I am the Defendant.

 

 

Signed

 

Amended this day of 2009

 

 

 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

Do I send them to the Court or to Horwich Farrelly?

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Hmm the Rob way printouts all mention figures in $$$'s not pounds... slightly misleading on the amount outstanding I would say.

 

Anyway real point of post is to deny them the s69 interest which they shouldnt be claiming on a regulated agreement claim.

 

It is denied that the claimant may claim interest under the County Courts Act 1984 S69 as the purported agreement is a regulated agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the County Courts (Interest on Judgment Debts) Order 1991 (No. 1184 (L. 12)) section 2(3) states this may not be claimed

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I thought it a bit strange that there were $ and not £. In fact, in places there's nothing at all. The other thing I noticed is that on the first page of the printouts, it states it's an Auto Sue. I suppose they just do this to everyone with little regard to the effect it may have. You'd think they'd at least make sure they get their paperwork in order!!

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brighteyes,

 

The defence looks fine. A couple of questions for you.

 

Is it actually Robinson Way that are the claimants on the blue court form?

 

The sheet you posted shows payments of £24.51, the last one being 18/6/08 - were these payments being made to Robinson Way or somebody else? Also, you said that you were paying £30 to Metropolitan, was this in 2008 when it shows these payments of £24?

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It says Robinson Way (assigness of ex R/O: HSBC)

 

The payments were to Robinson Way. We were also paying Metropolitan after the debt had been assigned to RW, because we didn't know the debt had been reassigned. As far as we know, the payments we made to them during that time have just disappeared. We stopped paying RW in the end because they wouldn't give us any of the information we had asked for.

 

The first we heard from RW was in Feb last year when I got a really stroppy phone call from them demanding money. What I can't make out is that according to the printouts, we are showing as having made payments to them from the previous Oct although we didn't even know they existed then.

 

This has been the problem with them all along. Nothing seems to make any sense - even the figures seem to have been plucked from thin air...

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Also, we stopped making payment to Metropolitan when we heard from RW - as I said in about Feb 2008

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Do you have a record of those payments to Metropolitan.. cheque stubs / paying in slips/ postal order receipts, etc ?


Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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ok, you need to mention in your witness statement or skeleton argument (you don't need to put it in the defence) when you do it about the payments going missing and about the timeline of when you were paying which company.

 

It would also be a good idea to also mention in the skeleton argument that you just had a phone call from Robinson Way and that you have never received anything in writing. This is important as notice of assignment must be in writing. They can't just phone you up and tell you - they must write to you and, unless you admit receiving written notice, they must have sent it by recorded delivery. But I guess you know this from what you put in the defence.

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We paid everything through the bank account so will have allpayments recorded.

 

When does the skeleton argument go in? Is that after the defence?

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you need to do that a week or so before the actual court date - so you've got months yet

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