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beachcomber60

Egg card [OH's 2nd card] Microfiche agreement - now Marlin

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After much letter writing the OH finally received a reply to her second Egg card cca request.

 

Apart from the 'agreement' stating the 'Approved' limit as opposed to the correct prescribed term 'Credit limit', the agreement they have sent is a photocopy of a microfiche slide.

 

Can this be classed an enforceable agreement as it can clearly be read (leaving the approved limit aside), it dates from c.2001.

 

As always

 

Beachy

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Can anyone advise me as to whether a (readable) microfiche copy of an agreement can be deemed enforceable, want to throw something more than just 'approved limit' at them.

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Beachcomber, have a look at the link below where PT2537 outlines what he thinks is wrong with Egg Card Agreements. He is highly qualified in the field of litigation. This should give you more pointers to throw at them.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/188093-egg-credit-agreements-what.html

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Hiya Beachy,

 

Yes good post above, and if it ever went to court you can use the Civil Evidence act 1995 to make them prove its authenticity.

 

Have a look at this by Alanalana

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/162535-documents-court-civil-evidence.html#post1743527

 

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i dont think if law correctly applied they should be able to get away with Microfilch copies!

 

As you say when it suits them bankers will say a copy will do when trying to harrass someone into paying an unenforcabe agreement but they soon change their tune and say a copy will not do when it comes to anything else concerning their banking,

 

As i saw on another forum this point was made

- A copy birth certificate is unacceptable to obtain a pass port and driving licence.

A copy of divorce papers is not acceptable to obtain a passport or driving licence ,

A copy of land deeds are not acceptable as proof of ownership of land

you cant send a copy of your driving license to prove you passed your test even if you swear on oath to say you have passed it.

 

You must produce the original,

 

So why should this be any different for something as important as a credit agreement? .

It can be argued on this basis that a copy of an agreement is not acceptable as proof of a debt

!so this argument can be brought out in court as well and which i will be doing

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/131345-getting-mbna-before-they-5.html This thread of BRW goes over some useful points when banks try and rely on microfilch copies!

  • Haha 1

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Aso as that thread pointed out banks are very reluctant to accept faxed copies of documents themselves so why should it be differennt for us!


Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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I love it sunflower

 

I will find your thread and read it with interest.

Surely a microfilch could be acceptable in certain circumstances?

Don't get me wrong I dare not disagree with that statement.

 

Pedross

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Hi Pedross!

It is Bankerrhymeswith thred! I find his threads very informative and helpful!:) really under a credtit card agreement it is wrong to accept a microfilch copy,and is backed up by the fact that under cpr 16 paragraph 7.3 the crediter is compelled to being original into court.Plus it can be pointed out that bankers themselves dont accept faxed copies of documents! so why should it be different for us:) plus the other points i raised.

 

Also another quote taken from a thread -Also if you read the Wilson v First Counties Trust it says in this ruling and says specifically " a document" signed by the debtor NOT a "copy" of a document signed by the debtor... and as everyone knows a comma can make a difference to the meaning of a sentence and especially in law and this is very significant.

Quote from Wilson case- IN effect- the crediter - by failing to ensure that he obtained a document signed by the debtor which contained all the prescribed terms -must (in the light of the provisions in section 65(1) and 127(3) of the 1974 Act) be taken to have made a voluntary disposition,or gift , of the loan monies to the debtor,The crediter had chosen to part with the monies in circumstances in which it was never entitled to have them repaid.

The conclusion to be drawn from this quote is case law and consumer law meant - A "Document" signed by the debtor containing all the prescribed terms", not a copy.If you have not got the document you not got an agreement.

Edited by sunflower99

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Thanks sunflower

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well i am going to use those arguments in court!:)

 

Also as that thread pointed out banks are very reluctant to accept faxed copies of documents themselves so why should it be differennt for us!:)


Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Egg said they sent sent me two documents, A and B. A is 'a copy of the original agreement, and B is the current terms and conditions'. But there were three unlabelled documents - a copy of a signed dated, Egg card agreement (probably a microfiche), and two photocopies (unsigned, undated, and clearly not of the same provenance as the Egg Card Agreement) headed ' Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974'. They've still not told me which is 'original' and 'current'. Also, the Egg agreement refers to signing and returning the credit agreement - which from their letter, must be one of the other two documents. Direct Credit Collections has given up, Egg've just moved it on to ARC.

 

The Egg Card Agreement also says it's not valid until they've carried out their final credit checks - my recent Subject Access Request shows no sign of checks ever being carried out. Egg also never replied to my letters last summer saying they hadn't answered my letter regarding the 'agreements', and that if they didn't reply with four weeks, then they were agreeing by default that they had no agreement and would set the balance on the account at 0 and remove any negative references to credit agencies etc. The SAR shows they received these letters and did nothing. Also no record of notifications of changes to the credit limit, or any credit checks ever - breaches the banking code, and some of the terms and conditions. No sign of any notification of change of interest rates in the documentation either. Egg don't seem to realise they need to keep records...

Wonder how long it'll take to get ARC off the case?

Oh, and the Financial Ombudsman Service is a waste of space.

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My partner had an Egg card which defaulted in 2008, been chasing Egg for the agreement but received nothing so it's been very quiet no contact no payments & no demands for payment.

 

About 12-18 months ago partner received email from Egg stating Barclaycard was to take over Egg accounts, shortly after a letter arrived from Barclaycard with a completely different account number, just stating that they now have the Egg accounts & that payments should continue to be made to Egg until further notice.

 

Have not heard anything further until today when a letter arrived from Marlin Capital Europe stating they are collecting on behalf of Barclaycard & my partner should telephone them to discuss payment options.

 

Apart from the balance outstanding is the same as the defaulted Egg card account the Barclaycard account number is completely different, my partner is quite worried as we have a joint account with Barclays.

 

Surely the Egg & Barclaycard account number should be the same, unless a new agreement had been sent/signed (which it hasn't).

 

Any advice would be appreciated.

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Send them the prove it letter, you can legitimately say you have no knowledge of this and wait to see what they come back with.

Have you had a letter from barclaycard or marlin, if it's from barclaycard i'd wait until marlin contact you then send it.

Marlin are idjits, you need to keep the pressure on them.

 

Also see: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?215961-EGG-gt-gt-A-Quandry

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Send them a CCA request. If they cant produce one, they cant enforce the debt. Since Egg were in default already, you could tell marlin and sharkleys where to go.


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

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Send them a CCA request. If they cant produce one, they cant enforce the debt. Since Egg were in default already, you could tell marlin and sharkleys where to go.

I'd send the prove it letter first, just to delay things.

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is it stil on your cra file?

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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is it stil on your cra file?

 

dx

 

Thanks everyone.

 

Yes checked cra today, its listed as Barclaycard default (defaulted with Egg in 2008).

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then i wouldn't even bother with the CCA to marlin

they cant fo anything they dont OWN the debt.

 

i'd be more concerned about offset by BC from your joint account.

 

there is little chance BC will have the EGG CCA

 

i'd CCA them IF you must fo anything

.

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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then i wouldn't even bother with the CCA to marlin

they cant fo anything they dont OWN the debt.

 

i'd be more concerned about offset by BC from your joint account.

 

there is little chance BC will have the EGG CCA

 

i'd CCA them IF you must fo anything

.

dx

 

I'll double check the letter from Marlins to my partner as to whether they are collecting agents or its been assigned.

 

Can Barclays 'raid' a joint account where I am first named account holder? I dont owe Barclays a penny (now :) )

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if BC show on the CRa file they own it beachy.

 

yes they could offset this. becareful

 

is this the 1st or 2nd egg card

 

looking at your old threads.

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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Its the second card, other card is with Apex, they've failed to provided the cca & written to the other half stating that no further payments need be made until such times as the agreement can be provided - strangly enough they've aldo removed the DN.

 

(Haven't been around for a long time - health issues).

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yea good to see you back

 

 

 

i'm thinking for history it might be an idea to merge this with the other threads on this card.

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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Thanks

 

Yes probably a good idea to merge.

 

Thought we had everything under control until the postman came yesterday - looks like Truecall needs dusting off :)

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dont worry about marlin they are lowlife

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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dont worry about marlin they are lowlife

 

dx

 

Have just checked the letter OH received yesterday, it is an assignment letter from Barclaycard to Marlin, also states that the default on the CRA will change from BC to Marlins name.

 

OH seems to think theres PPI on this card (original account number with Egg) & knows for sure there are late/overlimit charges - Does OH chase EGG for these? Have never acknowledged any letter from BC as they always refer to a different account number.

 

Also been reading about defaults being removed due to late payments & PPI making DN inaccurate - is this now possible?

 

Got lots of catching up to do, fallen way behind :(

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