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Jameson:- one of the SAR loopholes is they can just provide the raw data rather than the copies of letters if these are not on file or easily obtainable

 

Its in section 7 of the DPA and this is from section 8

 

The obligation imposed by section 7(1)©(i) must be complied with by supplying the data subject

with a copy of the information in permanent form unless—

(a) the supply of such a copy is not possible or would involve disproportionate effort, or

(b) the data subject agrees otherwise;

and where any of the information referred to in section 7(1)©(i) is expressed in terms which are

not intelligible without explanation the copy must be accompanied by an explanation of those

terms.


Live Life-Debt Free

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Hi Scarlet Pimpernel

Re Post 5

2 creditors cashed the statutory fee cheque and sent no information , that was over a year ago.

1 creditor sent me 6 years bank statements and nothing else.

I wrote to all 3 of them a couple of days ago and advised if they did not supply all the information they hold on me including agreements, PPi details, default notices , termination notices etc I would apply to the court to obtain the information.

I shall have to work out the costs of asking the courts, I might have to do one now and the rest when i have the money.

Thanks

Loring

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This link will give you a run down of the procedure to follow for non - compliance

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?593-Data-Protection-Act-Non-Compliance-Template-Letters

 

Here is a link fro a booklet from the information commissioners Office about taking companies to court under the data protection act.

 

http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/practical_application/taking_a_case_to_court.pdf

 

I would also complain about those companies that have not complied - you can do that here.

 

http://www.ico.gov.uk/complaints.aspx

 

Hope this helps.

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I asked formally to supply all data they hold on me - you know that standard template letter we all send... in particular point 4: True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

 

I then reminded them that:

 

... my Subject Access Request was pursuant to Section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998 and was a formal request for you to supply me with all data that you hold on me.

1) You have provided no copy documents relating to any correspondence between myself and your company.

 

2) You have provided no notes, or documents relating to instances of manual intervention.

 

3) You have provided no copies of default notices .

Which they have replied:

The information supplied to you was complete in respect of the above account relationship.

Therefore, in th context of your enquiry, you were provided with the information you are entitled to receive in accordance with the requirements of the Data Protection Act.

If the information you are endeavouring to locate is not found within the package already supplied, then it is not available under the Act or was not retained by the Bank.

So there you have it. Is this an admission that the bank have not kept any copies of default notices, correspondence between myself and the bank, notice of assignments.. nothing. Surely they have not complied fully to my request and they are just playing games. What do you think I should do now? I have previously warned that no further notice would be given before legal proceedings will be commenced. Part of me says to do nothing. They have not complied, the law, in this instance is on my side, and therefore the account can remain in dispute until they comply. What's the next move?

Jameson

 

 

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Does the bank have to keep copies of default notices and letters? Barclays is claiming that they either don't have these copies or the DPA does not require for them to disclose under a SAR. Can I consider the account in dispute until they comply fully with my SAR request? Thanks

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Does the bank have to keep copies of default notices and letters? Barclays is claiming that they either don't have these copies or the DPA does not require for them to disclose under a SAR. Can I consider the account in dispute until they comply fully with my SAR request? Thanks

Hi Jameson don't really know if banks have to keep copies of DNs and letters. However I do know that everything they hold on you information wise must be released by a SAR request. I know as I asked my Data Protection officer at work who looked into it for me. But IMHO a request for ALL information held on you, means just that and it should include DNs, NoAs, manual interventions blah blah blah. I only say as I've not received DNs, NoAs and even CCA agreements from loans I know I've had with the financial institutions from some of my SARs to banks and creditors. I think a court would look pretty lowly on a OC/DCA if the alleged document suddenly appeared at a court hearing a couple of years down the line:wink: I've personally stopped all communication will some of the DCAs I'm dealing with because of my SARs. Had legal threats and just ignored them, but that is personal choice. PM


IQOR (the OH) - No CCA, gone away.:madgrin:

Simply Be (the OH) - No valid CCA, gone away.:madgrin:

HSBC Loan - No CCA, not gone away but who cares, they have nothing.:madgrin:

HSBC Overdraft - No CCA, not gone away but who cares, they have nothing.:madgrin:

LTSB Loan and Overdraft (the OH) - AID, awaiting result on PPI and Bank Charges complaint.

Vanquis - No CCA, gone away.:madgrin:

MBNA CC - No CCA, awaiting DSAR outcome.

MBNA Loan - awaiting DSAR outcome.

Capital One (the OH) - No CCA, gone away.:madgrin:

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Jameson:- one of the SAR loopholes is they can just provide the raw data rather than the copies of letters if these are not on file or easily obtainable

 

Its in section 7 of the DPA and this is from section 8

 

I'm afraid that I agree with b3rty here and,as it happens, so does the High Court. There have been a couple of recent High COurt cases that dealt with with the DPA and they basically said that you are not entitled to see copies of documents but of course the data controller is at liberty to supply the data in that format if it is easier for him but it is not a necessity.

 

The two cases are Ezsias v The Welsh Ministers [2007] EWHC B15 (QB) from para 50 onwards:-

 

http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2007/B15.html

 

The other case is Durant v Financial Services Authority [2003] EWCA Civ 1746

 

http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2003/1746.html

 

This is from Ezias:-

 

There is a fundamental distinction between the right of access to data in the hands of another person for the purposes of protecting privacy, and the right to disclosure of documents. Mr Ezsias actually wishes to have disclosure of documents to assist his employment claim: and he labours under the misunderstanding that the right to access to data is necessarily coterminous with a right to disclosure of documents. It is not. Under the 1998 Act there is no right to have access to or copies of documents at all. Section 7 gives a data subject a right to be informed by any data controller whether personal data of which that individual is the data subject are being processed by or on behalf of that data controller: and if that be the case to be given a description of those data, the purposes of the processing and the recipients of any disclosure, and (Section 7(1)©):

"… to have communicated to him in an intelligible form

(i) the information constituting any personal data of which that individual is the data subject, and

(ii) any information available to the data controller as to the source of those data…".

 

and this is from Durant:-

 

The intention of the Directive, faithfully reproduced in the Act, is to enable an individual to obtain from a data controller's filing system, whether computerised or manual, his personal data, that is, information about himself. It is not an entitlement to be provided with original or copy documents as such, but, as section 7(1)©(i) and 8(2) provide, with information constituting personal data in intelligible and permanent form. This may be in documentary form prepared for the purpose and/or where it is convenient in the form of copies of original documents redacted if necessary to remove matters that do not constitute personal data (and/or to protect the interests of other individuals under section 7(4) and (5) of the Act).

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I asked formally to supply all data they hold on me - you know that standard template letter we all send... in particular point 4: True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

 

If they do not have copies then they cannot supply them. What there will be is a computer record that one was sent. I presume they have sent you this - if not then yes you can demand that they send you copies of their computer records on you.

 

I then reminded them that:

 

... my Subject Access Request was pursuant to Section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998 and was a formal request for you to supply me with all data that you hold on me.

1) You have provided no copy documents relating to any correspondence between myself and your company.

 

2) You have provided no notes, or documents relating to instances of manual intervention.

 

3) You have provided no copies of default notices .

 

 

Which they have replied:

The information supplied to you was complete in respect of the above account relationship.

Therefore, in th context of your enquiry, you were provided with the information you are entitled to receive in accordance with the requirements of the Data Protection Act.

 

If the information you are endeavouring to locate is not found within the package already supplied, then it is not available under the Act or was not retained by the Bank.

So there you have it. Is this an admission that the bank have not kept any copies of default notices, correspondence between myself and the bank, notice of assignments.. nothing. Surely they have not complied fully to my request and they are just playing games.

 

They say that they have given you what records they possess. What more do you want. If you wish to take them to court then the burden of proof is on you to prove that they do, in fact, have other data on you that they have not provided. Good luck with doing that.

 

What do you think I should do now? I have previously warned that no further notice would be given before legal proceedings will be commenced. Part of me says to do nothing. They have not complied, the law, in this instance is on my side,

 

It is only on your side if you can demonstrate that they hold data on you that they have not provided.

 

 

and therefore the account can remain in dispute until they comply. What's the next move?

 

I would suggest that your belief that they have not complied with the sar has no bearing on the enforceability or not of the agreement.

 

 

I have made some comments in red

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nicklea - thanks for your reply

They have sent no computer records that a DN etc, had been sent. Even a raw file would do. But nothing.

You say that my belief that they have not complied with the SAR has no bearing on the enforceability or not of the agreement....So far, in my opinion, they have failed to comply with my SAR, and as ScarletPimpernel put it, I am unable to determine whether or not the debt is legitimate and I am therefore formally disputing the matter.

It's a catch 22 situation. They have sent me an envelope with 6 pages. No Default notices or any letters that they have sent me over the years. I have sent them a letter to help clarify specifically what they do and don't hold on me - which would make things much clearer; such as if they can confirm in writing that there are no Default Notices and/or Notice of Assignments held on their records.

I don't wish to take them to court, as your are right concerning the burdon of proof. I just need the clock to run a little... I will however contact the IC who has the power to enforce compliance.

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