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Rocker6170

Incasso LLP (Natwest) taking me to court

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Hi, I have just received a Claim Form from the Northampton County Court in relation to a personal loan that I have been unable to pay and also my current account which is overdrawn.

 

The Particulars of Claim is as follows:

 

The claimants claim is in respect of monies due pursuant to an account maintained with the claimant.

 

and the claimant claims:

 

1. 17,030.57

 

There are also Court Fees of 310.00

and Solicitors costs of 100.00

 

I took out a personal loan back in 2005 (i think it was then) for £21.000 to consolidate other loans and sort out a car etc. Shortly afterwards I had to leave work due to stress from going through a divorce and suffered a deep depression which forced me onto incapacity benefit which I have been getting ever since. My mum helped me out with the loan repayments and I also used what was left of the loan to carry on paying the monthly premiums until this money ran out. The bank still carried on taking the monthly payments from my current account and actually caused my account to go over the overdraft limit. I also had a few direct debits which the bank lkept refusing over the last few months and charging me £38.00 a time for.

 

I spoke to the lending centre on the telephone and the person that I spoke to was so rude and I told him that if they hadn't been adding all these unfair bank charges on then I would probably not be in the state with the accounts that I am. He just stated that unless I paid the loan and the overdraft off in full that I would be facing court action.

 

Well, that day has now come and I don't know what to do now. I am on incapacity benefit which gets paid straight into my wife's account and I have no other source of income. I have 4 children to support and no way of being able to pay off this debt.

 

I am at my wit's end having sleepless nights and really need some good advice.

 

Do I need to sort out a solicitor or see the Citizens Advice? What is my next step? I only have 14 days to respond to the letter and although I know I owe the majority of the money there are loads of bank charges included in this amount that I was going to try and claim back but now the bank has closed my account and I cannot get online to view the statements to find out how much they came to.

 

Can anyone Please Help!!!

Court Claim Form.jpg

Edited by Rocker6170
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Hi Rocker, im in he middle of a court case too so i know how you feel. You have come to the right place for help, there are alot of very nice and knowledgeable people here!! Ok i am no expert but i am sure some will be along shortly. The first thing you need to do is acknowledge service, you get 14 days + 5 days to do this then once you have done that you get a further 14 days to file a defence!

For the moment i would say you are going to defend the whole claim, especially if your overdraft is made up of unlawful charges like mine was.

 

Once you have acknowledged service you should send a few letters off straight away, you need to send a CCA request to incasso, a SAR to Natwest and a cpr 31.14 request to incasso. All by recorded delivery and dont sign them.

 

If you have a look about you should find the templates in the library, if you cant then give me a shout and i shall get some for you!!!

 

Hopefully someone else will be along soon to confirm the best way to proceed, stay strong!! if you can scan up your POC then that would be helpful also, taking your personal details out!!!

 

good luck, supa :)

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PS from now on never speak to anyone over the phone, tell them you will only communicate through letters!!!

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Thanks supasta, I will take a look at the templates etc that you have pointed out to me so far. Do I acknowledge and admit that I owe part of the mount or is it best to dispute the whole claim?

 

Look forward to hearing from you.

 

Regards, Rocker

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you should dispute all of the claim at the moment and let them prove otherwise. You will not hear back from them with the required info in time to put in a proper defence so for the moment you will probably have to submit what is called as a holding/embarressed defence. Keep a close eye on the dates as you can not be late in acknowledgeing and putting in your defence!

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Hi Rocker,

 

Two threads merged - please use this thread from now on to avoid confusion.

 

You should acknowledge the claim as set out on the N1 Claim. Say that you will be contesting the full amount. This will give you time to prepare your Defence.

 

Do you have all your a/c statements since the a/c started. If not, instead of applying for them with an SAR and the £10 fee, you can send the bank, or their legal reps, a request under the CPR 31.14 (Civil Procedural Rules).

 

You also need to demand sight of the credit agreement upon which they rely.

 

Read this thread which sets out what you should request from the legal reps - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/159445-getting-them-reveal-their.html

 

You'll get lots of help here, but you should be prepared to read and learn lots. :)

 

This reply was made on another thread, before I saw replies from SS.

Edited by slick132
threads merged and my post edited accordingly

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Hi, I have been into my local Community Legal Advice bureau today and told them what I had been advised so far. They said by all means to defend the claim but if things weren't to go in my favour then I could be liable for all sorts of extra costs including barrister fees etc.

 

Are you sure it is wise for me to defend the whole claim? I have no means of paying it anyway so will it matter if extra costings are applied anyhow?

 

Look forward to any responses.

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Hi, I have been into my local Community Legal Advice bureau today and told them what I had been advised so far. They said by all means to defend the claim but if things weren't to go in my favour then I could be liable for all sorts of extra costs including barrister fees etc.

 

Are you sure it is wise for me to defend the whole claim? Yes otherwise the Claimant will get Judgement by default I have no means of paying it anyway so will it matter if extra costings are applied anyhow? you said it

 

Look forward to any responses.

 

Defend in full

Regards

Andy;)


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Andy is a very good person to have in your corner, his advice is very good advice. The reason you need to tick defend all of the claim at the moment is because you have been sent no information by Natwest to be able to substantiate the claim. Once you have all the information you need from them you will be in a better position to judge how strong your case is, until that point you should defend defend defend. This is the purpose of using the holding defence, you are basically saying that you can't defend this claim as it stands because you need more information. My advice would be to send the letters mentioned above asap and acknowledge the claim. You will get plenty more advice here to help you through each process step by step... Natwest start all of these claims hoping for people not to defend so they can win by default... even if they aren't legally entitled to any money from you, this is what you need to find out....

 

I wish you well in your decision and will keep an eye on this thread to see how you proceed...... best of luck :)

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Thanks Andy and Supasta1, it does make me feel a lot better having someone knowledgable to take advice from. I have now acknowledged the claim online and will be posting a request under the CPR 31.14 to Incasso LLP today via Special Delivery. I have asked for a true copy of the agreement plus other documentation and also account statements from since the account/s were started.

 

There is one other thing that is bugging me though. In the POC it states the following:

 

The claimants claim is in respect of monies due pursuant to an account maintained with the claimant.

 

and the claimant claims:

 

1. 17,030.57

 

 

Now as far as I am concerned this is worded wrongly as the debt is the total of what is still owed on a personal loan (approx £11,500) and also a current account which is overdrawn (approx £5500) The unfair bank charges have all been applied on the current account.

 

Could this be thrown out at Court for being worded wrongly in the POC as being a single account or am I just splitting hairs?

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They have amalgamated your Overdraft into the Personal loan.RBS are well known for doing this hence the lack of account numbers in the P.O.C.However this is a plus for you because the O/D usually is made up of unfair penalty charges thus rendering the summons amount invalid.

Gives you another reason as to why you must defend in total.

Rocker if you get chance can you type up verbatum the Claimants P.O.C as the thumb is too small,less any personal identifiable details.

 

Regards

 

Andy

Edited by Andyorch
typo

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Hi, can you tell me how to attach the jpg properly because every time I upload it it seems to shrink it down to a thumbnail at 9.2 kb but the file I am uploading is 1.22MB and legible.

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Caggers tend to use Photobucket to upload to then just post a link in your thread.

 

Regards

 

Andy


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Excellent Rocker.

That has to be the most vague P.O.C I have ever seen in my life:D

 

 

Defend Defend Defend

 

Regards

 

Andy


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And here is your Defence

 

 

Defence

 

 

I Rocker make this statement as my defence to the claim brought by RBS

 

1.The claimants particulars of claim are vague and fail to disclose any cause of action, they appear to be an abuse of the process in that they fail to deal with the basic rules of pleading in accordance with the CPR

 

2.No documents supporting the claims in the particulars have been offered which the defendant needs to establish what agreement it is that this action is based upon

 

3.Without clarification of the claimants claim, the defendant is extremely disadvantaged and the claimants claim appears without merit

 

 

4.Further to above the defendant is unable to plead effectively or at all. The defendant is embarrassed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The above is all you need to place in the defence.

 

You should write to the claimants solicitors as follows:-

 

Dear Sirs,

 

 

Please serve amended particulars of claim and plead yor clients case in an appropriate manner within 7 days, so that I am aware of the case I will have to meet at trial. I request that you attach to the particulars a copy of the agreement and Default Notice/Assignment Notice upon which the claimant relies. The matter will be transferred to my home court and the claimant will have to produce the document, in any event. In those circumstances you should plead in accordance with the CPR.

 

Failure to provide that requested in the time period provided for will result in application to the court. I confirm a copy of this letter will be produced to the court when the question of costs falls to be decided'.

 

 

Yours Faithfully

 

(print name) send rec del/retain proof)

 

The above will starve them off for now and stop automatic Summary Judgement

 

Regards

 

Andy


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Thanks for that Andy, I will draft another letter to the claimants solicitors (Incasso LLP) later today as I have just sent a letter today via Special Delivery requesting all the supporting documents under CPR 31.14 although will follow it straight up with the info that you have now given me.

 

I will also file what you have sent me for defence to the court.

 

If you think of anything else it would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks for all your assistance so far.

 

Rocker

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Good stuff Rocker

 

Just exclude the Assignment part from the Sols Letter as this claim is still with the Original creditor ie NW/RBS

 

 

Regards

 

Andy


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The POC is pretty much identicle to the one they sent me... shambolic really isn't it!

 

Incasso started proceedings against me but as soon as i entered a defence Cobbetts suddenly took over. I would imagine this will be the case here too.

 

My case is very similar to yours Rocker although mine is not for as much. i have my first hearing on the 25th August as they applied to have my defence struck out as they claim i have no reasonable grounds for defending the claim, even though they admit they have no Credit agreement for the loan so i returned the favour and applied for their claim to be struck out as they have no real prospects of winning at trial..... Should be interesting lol!!

 

Keep up the fight.... Andy is giving you some great advice :D

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Hi Supasta, who are Cobbets? Are they another solicitor? Anyhow sounds like we are both in very similar circumstances so will be interesting to see how things pan out.

 

Thanks for your assistance and good luck with your case too.

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Yeh Cobbetts are another solicitor firm for the Ratwest, i have read a few threads regarding Natwest where the claim starts through Incasso and as soon as you defend they switch to Cobbetts... Horrible lot but aren't they all!!

 

You have made the right choice in fighting back, it is a scarey prospect but we can not let these people just bully us into submission. :)

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Yeh Cobbetts are another solicitor firm for the Ratwest, i have read a few threads regarding Natwest where the claim starts through Incasso and as soon as you defend they switch to Cobbetts... Horrible lot but aren't they all!!

 

You have made the right choice in fighting back, it is a scarey prospect but we can not let these people just bully us into submission. :)

 

Lol...they did the same with me!!

Started off with Incasso, then moved to Cobbetts. They were unable to produce any Credit Agreement and they reckon we owe them over £4k made up of charges.

They have discontinued the loan claim and now want to stay the overdraft claim as the £4k is totally made up of bank charges!!!

 

Hang in there, their POC for our case were just as vague, and they tried various offers etc to settle. We refused them all and eventually they gave up with the loan as there is no CCA.

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Good result luxx, congratulations!!! I hope mine goes the same way, i just love a good success story :D

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Hi Andy, I have received a letter from the Courttoday acknowledging receipt of my defence and they have informed me that the claimant now has 28 days to respond to it otherwise it will be stayed.

 

I haven't sent anything off to Incasso yet though. Shoul I do this now?

 

Regards, Rocker

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Thats a standard response from Northampton.Yes send the second part which i posted,you should have already sent it giving them 7 days to comply,send recorded and print name,you may also enclose a second copy of the defence for their ease even though Northampton will have forwarded yours on already.

Have you sent Incasso a CPR request yet? if not I would advocate you get that off also ASAP,again recorded and dont sign name.

 

Regards

 

Andy


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