CRS - Partial Debt Dispute

[poppy11]

Help, not sure what to do and any advice would be great.

 

In March 2008 I took out house insurance online via 1st Quote Insurance with MRB Insurance (I think), had a bit of a rocky start with them for the first two months stating that they had still not received my bank details for payment etc, always bullish phonecalls never anything in writing and as I had included them in the online application form was wary so insisted that they put it in writing as I was not giving out my bank details to unknown parties over the phone, lots of wrangling over they are an internet site etc and dont send letters or polices out but I didnt wash that.

 

I moved home in August informed 1st Quote by phone so that the insurance would move with us as it would have been better to pay for the rest of the year rather than cancel, but at the time of taking out our mortgage we were offered a much better deal with the bank so also took that out.

 

In February I cancelled the 1st quote insurance, explaining that it was no longer required. helpful chap, closed the account said thanks for my custom and that was that.

 

This is where it gets tricky, I missed the last payment as I at that time thought I had taken the policy out in February and I accept that, but when I closed the account I was not informed that there was £16:00 outstanding and that there was also a £35 fee. I only found this out when CRS sent me a text saying that they needed to speak with me urgently. Turns out that my debt has been sold to them is now £108 pounds and i have no knowledge of this.

It turns out that all mail has been sent to our last address regarding this, I am really miffed for the sake of £16 quid (I would have argued the £35) its going to mark against my name and I have worked so hard to clean up my credit record.

I have spoke with CRS and said that I dispute the amount as I didnt know what it was for but I dont know

Should I just pay the £108 and accept it was bad luck, argue the toss and pay the fee and missed payment which I accept as it was my error, and if so how do I do it...I cant just ring up and say I want to pay this much but you aint getting a penny more can I?

Not only that I would rather keep it all in writing now.

[PGH7447]

No it is not bad luck it is shoddy customer services from 1st Quote

 

you phoned you cancelled the guy on the phone should have told you there was a month outstanding, send a sar to these cretins and demand all correspondence and phone transcripts from this period and tell them you are willing to pay the missed month but that is it.

 

as for CRS as far as they are concerned the account is in dispute and they can whistle

[poppy11]

Thats quite harsh, I am happy to do it. But what if they cant supply the transcripts it will be just my word against theirs.

[PGH7447]

exacatly so they dont have a leg to stand on

[poppy11]

Hi I took the above advice, I have sent a SAR to 1st Quote (still waiting) and a CCA to CRS but now I have had two letters from CRS this week 1 dated 04/09/2009 Giving notice of intended legal action giving me 7 days notice and stating that on top of the £108 they estimate another £150 in legal charges.

 

and one dated the 08/09/2009 that reads

 

Further to your recent letter I would like to confirm there is no signed credit agreement when you take the policy. Please refer to the terms of business which yoo have accepted when you took policy with our client.

 

We have accepted £1 as your token payment and we are awaiting your response with arrangements to repay the remaining outstanding balance.

 

Help!! what do I do now, this was an online policy and I cant believe that a poxy £16 is going to cost me nearly £300 and wreck my credit history.

 

Do I send an account in dispute letter now to CRS? The ones in the library dont seen to quite right? Is there anything else I can do?

Edited September 11, 2009 by poppy11
Had a query to raise

[PGH7447]

if you are still waiting for the sar request then this is still in dispute and crs can do nothing about it, simple write back and say

 

Dear idiots

 

Awaiting lawful request submitted on ate to the OC, until such time as this request is fulfilled this Account is in dispute and any attempts to enforce collection of this disputed debt will be vigouroulsy defended.

[poppy11]

Whoops wrong agreement

Edited September 11, 2009 by poppy11

[poppy11]

Thanks PGH...you must have posted as I was onto my next bit, I will send them a lovely short and sweet go away letter till the OC get back to me.

[poppy11]

Ok below is a copy of the Terms of Business, the only thing that I can think they can be referring to is the 1st paragraph, but this is not a credit agreement is it?

 

General

 

These Terms of Business form the basis of our Contract with you. Please read them carefully. Unless we hear from you to the contrary within 14 days of receipt, we will assume you have read and accepted them.

 

The Financial Services Authority (FSA)

 

The FSA is the independent watchdog that regulates financial services. It requires us to give you this document. Please use this document to decide if our services are right for you.

 

Who regulates us?

 

1st Quote is a trading name of Hero Insurance Services Ltd which is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority. Our FSA Register number is 308619.

 

You can check the above on FSA's register by visiting their website www.fsa.gov.uk/register or by contacting them on 0845 606 1234.

 

 

Our Service

 

We act as an Independent Broker on your behalf and our service includes advising you on your insurance needs, arranging your insurance cover with insurers to meet your requirements and helping you with any ongoing changes you have to make. We will also assist with making a claim under your policy.

 

Products which we offer

 

We sell and advise on a wide range of personal lines and commercial insurance products and provide advice or information on the basis of a fair analysis of the market from a wide range of insurers.

 

We only offer products from a limited number of insurers for Home insurance. We will provide a list of these insurers on request.

 

For the following classes of business we deal exclusively with the underwriters shown:

 

Protected Excess, Windscreen and Personal Accident insurances - Groupama Insurance Company Limited.

 

Home Call Plus and "Helmets and Leathers" - Equity Red Star Insurance Ltd.

 

Travel Insurance - Fortis Insurance Ltd

 

Quad Bikes - Highway Insurance Company Ltd

 

Household Legal Expenses - BGL Legal Expenses

 

Our Breakdown Cover which is administered by RAC.

 

ACM ULR provides the Hero motor assistance service and will help you with motor claims and recovery of uninsured losses.

 

 

Our Charges

 

We normally make the following charges to cover the administration of your insurances:

 

 

• Arranging new policies. renewals and any alterations to your Policy - up to 15% of the insurer charge plus £25
  
• Cancellation of your policy - commission retained (11%) from Insurer return premium plus our administration/alteration charges as above
  
• Replacement or Duplicate documents - up to £25.00.
  
• Payments not honoured by your bank or instalments not met by the due date - £25.00
  
• Collection of Direct Debit payment by Card - £10.00.
  

The specific amount and purpose of any additional charges will always be advised to you in advance.

 

Any changes during the insurance period will only be processed upon receipt of any additional premiums due. These can be paid over the telephone by credit or debit card and cover issued immediately. If the insurer makes any charge for any reason, we reserve the right to request that any additional premium is paid within seven days of our notification to you.

 

For return premiums (usually arising if an insurance risk is reduced or the policy is cancelled), we repay commission on the refund to your insurer and this amount will be deducted from the final amount refunded to you. Where appropriate, we will refund monies to the debit or credit card from which we took the original payment. We reserve the right not to issue return premiums under £50.00.

 

In the event of cancellation of the policy, should the refund from the insurer not cover the outstanding monies on your account with us, the resulting balance, including our administration fees, any debt collection charges (up to 35% of the balance due) and legal costs will become due immediately.

 

Any insurance arranged under an instalment scheme is subject to the conditions contained within the Agreement. In the event that the original payment was made by debit or credit card, we will recover any outstanding monies against the same card.

 

Please note that insurers will not give a refund premium in respect of cancellation of a policy where a fault claim (including fire and theft claims) has been notified during the term of the policy. In these cases, at the time of cancellation of the policy, any outstanding monies become immediately due.

 

Please note that our administration charge, the charge for Hero Motor Assistance and Breakdown cover and Helmet & Leathers policy premiums are non-refundable. Any other refunds could take up to 30 days to be processed.

 

Motor insurance policies will not be cancelled unless we receive the original Certificate of Insurance and you will be responsible for insurance costs until this document is received by us. If you require clarification of the total amount charged, your Personal Account Controller will be pleased to assist you.

 

In the event of any payment not being honoured for any reason, we will immediately initiate cancellation of all cover regardless of any cover note or certificate of insurance in force and you must return all documents within 7 days of our notification to you. We will also initiate cancellation of any policy should any payments not be made within 7 days of our request. In the event of any default on any direct debit payments, we reserve the right to charge the debit or credit card used for payment of any deposit premium for the defaulted amount.

 

In the event of monies being owed, any costs incurred as a result of debt recovery, for example solicitor�s charges or County Court fees, will be added to the outstanding amounts due. We also reserve the right to charge interest on any amounts owed to us at an annual interest rate of 8%.

 

 

Premiums and Financial Aspects

 

We are the Agent of Insurers for the purpose of collection of premiums.

 

Please note, we retain interest on client money held in our client account and by accepting these Terms of Business you give your consent for us to retain such interest.

 

We normally accept payment by any of the major debit/credit cards. However, in some cases because of charges levied by the banks, it may be necessary to add a handling charge to payments made by certain types of credit card. Full details of any such charges will be advised to you before we collect payment. We will give you full information about your payment options and details of the interest payable when we discuss your insurance in detail.

 

In arranging your insurances we may employ the services of other intermediaries who are regulated by the FSA and your premium may be passed to these intermediaries for payment to insurers.

 

For certain types of insurance we may ask you to sign a form granting us authority to retain documents such as Motor Certificates until full payment has been received. In these circumstances we will provide you with any documents that you are required to have by law.

 

 

New Business

 

Please note, all new business documentation will only be sent to the first named person on the policy.

 

Some insurances are subject to a signed, satisfactory proposal form being received in our office within seven days of commencement of cover. We reserve the right to cancel your policy if this document is not received within this timescale. The insurance and issue of a policy is subject to the insurer�s acceptance of your proposal form.

 

Your insurance may have been arranged on the basis of a Statement of Fact. If so, you will be sent a copy of the record of the statement and information given orally by you on your behalf. Under your obligation for material facts disclosure, you must check the details and contact us immediately if there are any inaccuracies.

 

Where a No Claims Bonus has been claimed by you, we will verify the details with your previous insurer, broker or intermediary. If the information is incorrect, it could lead to an additional premium being due. If this is the case we will request payment of the appropriate sum. We may need a copy of your driving licence or other documentation which may be required by your insurance company. Failure to return any required documentation within 7 days of our notification to you will lead to your policy being cancelled.

 

 

Renewals

 

We and the insurers reserve the right to refuse to renew a policy without disclosing a reason. Please be aware that if you have chosen to pay by Debit or Credit Card or by Bank Direct Debit arrangements, subject to insurers being prepared to offer renewal, your payments will automatically continue to be taken from your designated account unless you contact us prior to renewal date. We will advise you of the forthcoming renewal well in advance. If you do not receive your new policy documentation for the forthcoming period, prior to renewal date, please contact us to ensure continuance of cover.

 

 

Mid Term Changes

 

Should any of your circumstances change during the term of the insurance, for example personal details or vehicle changes, you must advise us immediately. If you are in any doubt as to whether the changes are relevant, it is always preferable to call us. Your renewal notice will be issued using the data which we hold. Therefore it is essential that all information is up to date.

 

 

Disclosure

 

It is your responsibility to provide complete and accurate information to insurers when you take out your insurance policy, throughout the life of your policy and when you renew your insurance. Failure to disclose information pertaining to your insurance, or any inaccuracies in information given, could result in your insurance being invalid or cover not operating fully. For example, for motor insurance you must provide details of any vehicle modification and your personal details including driving history; for home insurance you must provide all details of the property and for travel insurance all details of any medical condition.

 

It is important you ensure that all statements you make on proposal forms, claim forms and other documents are full and accurate. If a form is completed on your behalf, you should check that the answers shown to any questions are true and accurate before signing the document.

 

You are reminded that it is an offence under the Road Traffic Act to make any false statements or withhold any relevant information to obtain an Insurance Certificate. Customers are reminded that it is their responsibility under the Road Traffic Act to ensure that they are in possession of a current valid cover note or certificate of insurance before using a vehicle. You are advised to keep copies of any correspondence you send to us or direct to your insurer. If you are in any doubt as to whether any information is material, you should disclose it. Failure to disclose any material facts could invalidate your policy or lead to a claim not being paid.

 

We will only deal with the first named person on the policy (the policy holder) for any adjustments or cancellation. Any requests by any other persons, including named drivers, family members etc. will not be actioned unless we have written consent from the policy holder.

 

 

Claims

 

All motor claims are either handled by your insurance company or by ACM ULR. All other claims are handled directly by the insurer and details are provided with your policy documentation. We will endeavour to act as third party liaison should a customer require assistance but we will not be responsible for any decision on claims matters. ACM ULR can be contacted on 0845 402 5513.

 

 

Complaints

 

It is our intention to provide you with a high level of customer service at all times. However, if, at any time you are dissatisfied with the service we provide, we have a formal complaints procedure. You should, therefore, take the following course of action:

 

In the first instance you should contact our Customer Services Department and, if still not satisfied, write to the Quality Assurance Manager at Barrett House, Savoy Close, Andover, Hampshire, SP10 2HZ.

 

We will acknowledge your complaint within 5 working days and advise you who is conducting the investigation into the matters which you have raised. We will provide a formal response within 20 working days from initial receipt of the complaint. If the complaint cannot be resolved within this timescale we will explain why and specify the likely timescale for resolution.

 

If we cannot settle your complaint, you may be entitled to refer it to the Financial Ombudsman Service. We will advise you if you are able to refer any complaint to the Financial Ombudsman.

 

 

Financial Services Compensation Scheme (FSCS)

 

We are covered by the FSCS. You may be entitled to compensation from the scheme if we cannot meet our obligations. This depends on the type of business and the circumstances of the claim.

 

Insurance advising and arranging is covered for 100% of the first £2000 and 90% of the remainder of the claim, without any upper limit. For compulsory classes of insurance, insurance advising and arranging is covered for 100% of the claim, without any upper limit. Further information about compensation scheme arrangements is available from the FSCS.

 

Confidentiality

 

All personal information about our customers is treated as Private and Confidential. Calls may be recorded for training or regulatory purposes.

 

We will only disclose the information we have about private individuals in the normal course of arranging and administering their insurance and will not disclose any information to any other parties without their written consent unless required by law or public interest. However, we may use the information we hold about our customers to provide them with information about other products and services which we feel may be appropriate to them. You will be given the opportunity to opt out of such notifications.

 

Under the Data Protection Act 1988, private customers have a right to see the personal information about them that we hold in our records. If you wish to exercise this right, or have any other related queries, you should write to us at the above address. A charge of £10.00 will be made for this service.

 

 

Claims and Underwriting Exchange Register and Motor Insurance Anti-Fraud Register

 

Insurers pass information to the Claims and Underwriting Exchange Register operated by Database Services Ltd and the Motor Insurance Anti-Fraud Register compiled by the Association of British Insurers. The objective is to check information provided and to prevent fraudulent claims. Motor insurance details are also added to the Motor Insurance Database operated by the Motor Insurers� Information Centre (MIIC) which has been formed to help identify uninsured drivers and may be accessed by the Police to help confirm who is insured to drive. In the event of an accident, this database may be used by Insurers, MIIC and the Motor Insurance Bureau to identify relevant policy information. Other insurance related databases may also be added in the future.

 

 

Ownership

 

Hero Insurance Services Ltd is a wholly owned subsidiary of Highway Insurance Holdings Plc.

 

 

Applicable Law

 

This Terms of Business document is subject to English Law

[PGH7447]

no thats just their T&C's, what you want is a transcript of the call you made where theguy stated that he would close the account and made no mention of a final bill.

 

failing that send the insurance company the final £16 as a full and final, but state you disagree with th additional charges

[poppy11]

Ok thats great, the letter from CRS states 'Terms of business' and thats what I have posted.

 

I will get the letter off today saying the account is in dispute then wait for 1st Quote to reply to the SAR

[poppy11]

Ok I have had my SAR back from 1st Quote and there are a few things in it, but also a few things that are missing a quick run down in the following:

• They have included the policy diary with all alledged times when they have made contact (makes no sense to me)
  
• They have included the policy
  
• They have included copies of all the letters that alledged that they have sent - hard to know as they are not actually copies (dated after I sent the SAR with hand written notes on them)
  

There are no phone transcripts of any conversations and there is no signed credit agreement - as it was apparently a telephone policy (I thought it was actually an online one because thats how I applied for it)

 

Additionally I have been given copies of my confirmation of cancellation (funnily enough theh policy diary does not show a record of this call), copy of the letter stating that I owe £47 (£12 for policy £35 to cancel) then a letter dated 4 days later stating intention to cancel.

 

I know I need to go back to them and ask for the transcripts but what else should I be telling or asking them for at this stage?

 

My thoughts are as follows:

• I think I should still pursue the Credit Agreement
  
• I ask for all phone transcripts especially the one where I rang and cancelled
  
• Not sure if I should ask for true copies of the letters alledgedly sent out
  
• Not sure if I should say at this stage here is your £47 full and final, clear my credit record and we'll say its the end of the matter
  

Any ideas?

 

Oh and the DCA is back stating they are going to take me to court so will pop a account in dispute letter in the post first thing.

[poppy11]

Bump...Can anyone give me any further advice?

[poppy11]

Bump..Anyone??

[PGH7447]

I think you have covered all you have to do, the amin thing is to get shot of the debt collector

[poppy11]

Thanks I am getting myself into a tis, just want shot of it all.

[poppy11]

Just another thought neither the origional creditor or the DCA can supply me with a signed credit agreement (was for insurance) does this mean that my debt in unenforcable?

[PGH7447]

depends on how it was taken out if on line then chances are it is enforceable

[poppy11]

Thanks I thought that it might be just wanted to check