Debt Recovery Notice

[Danny Fearn]

Morning People,

 

Right where do i start.

 

In March 2008 I sold my car on ebay and a gentleman came and picked it up with trade plates etc. (he owned a garage)

 

Im positive i had declared the car off the road September 2007 (is there any way to check?)

 

We filled in the yellow part of the V5 document as the car was going into his garages name.

 

He left my house with the vehicle, I popped the yellow slip into a envelope with the dvla address on and a 1st class stamp and walked down to the post box and posted it off.

 

About 6 months later i get a letter saying the car is un taxed and i must re tax it. I just thought they hadnt switched it over and ignored it as in the past i have seen how unorganised the dvla is.

 

Then a few months after that i get a letter saying im being fined for not paying my tax. i ring the dvla and say i dont own the car and i have proof of the sale and a date and the details of the new owner.

 

The dvla on the phone told me to fill in the back of the form and write down why im not liable for the fine. Which I do.

 

Again all if forgotten then i get a letter through again about a month later saying i am still liable for the fine for not chasing up a change of owner letter.

 

Then a few days after that a letter arrives saying im no longer the owner of the car.

 

Now I have had a letter off Inter-Credit International Ltd saying i have to pay £80 or I MAY BE taken to court or the car MAY BE clamped. (Typical Bully Boy Debt Collector Wording)

 

I rang them up and the lady on the phone said i was liable as i was the registered owner when the fine was issued even though i didnt own the car and i had done my bit and sent the yellow slip off.

 

I havent paid anything yet.

 

Can anyone give me any advice on where to go from here please or am i best just paying the £80 and getting rid of this dvla cock up?

 

Many Thanks

 

Danny Fearn

[PGH7447]

no you are best ignoring these leaches, send the letter to the dval and get them to sort it

 

and dont phone them

[Danny Fearn]

no you are best ignoring these leaches, send the letter to the dval and get them to sort it

 

and dont phone them

 

i have just rang the dvla and asked them if i am still the owner of the car.

 

they said im no longer the owner on their system,

 

i then asked didnt i declare the car off the road and they said it was declared off the road in Jan 2008 by myself.

 

i sold the car in march 2008 but the dvla are saying as i didnt switch the owners over (which i did by sending that yellow slip off) i am still liable and need to contact the debt collection agency!

 

this is beginning to annoy me!

 

Thanks for the reply aswell

[patdavies]

The DVLA's assertion that you should have chased up the change of keeper letter is complete hogwash and has no basis whatsoever in law. All you are required to do is notify them of the change - which you did by sending them the yellow slip.

 

Ignore the DCA, and write directly to DVLA pointing out that you complied with your legal obligations in informing them and that Section 7 of Interpretation Act 1978 applies

 

7 References to service by post

 

Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

 

If you look at other threads in this area, you will find a good template letter.

[Danny Fearn]

but what about the dca? wont they start adding costs on for letters sent etc?

 

thanks so my for the replies,

 

has anyone any links to the threads containing a template letter?

[PGH7447]

ignore the DCA they ahve no leagl right to collect a non existant debt

 

and if they want to take you to court for £80 then they must be desperate for money cause it will cost them far more than that.

 

if you are concerned write a short note informing them that you dipsute this debt and are in contact with the dvla to sort the issue out

[Danny Fearn]

i have had another letter from the debt collection agency now saying they are going to commence court procedures against me!

 

i rang them and told them i am not paying and the lady on the phone kept going back to 7a of the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994!

 

i just dont know what to do!

[crem]

First off, stop ringing them up!

 

The "alleged" debt is with the DVLA and they are not entitled to refer a disputed debt to any 3rd party (i.e. the DCA)

 

As patdavies points out, they are implying that you are liable for a fine for not persuing their confirmation letter, which they are not required by law to send. Will make an interesting court case don't you think?

[gwc1000]

Danny, do not be intimidated by the DCA. They cannot take you to Court, only the DVLA can. Write back saying you dispute the alledged debt and insist they return the matter to their clients.

And, as others have pointed out, do not telephone them. Keep everything in writing.

[Danny Fearn]

right im going to write a letter to the dca and tell them i dispute the claim and insist that they refer it back to the dvla!

 

if they ring in the mean time shall i tell them that i have sent them a letter?

 

and am i best sending the letter recorded delivery?

 

i cannot believe they are saying i have to pay because i didnt chase a letter up.

 

its just like me saying i have never recieved a letter from the dvla and if they say they did then i turn round and say 'well you should of rang me after 4 weeks to see if i had got it'

 

this is really getting on my nerves now!

 

any one any ideas on how i should word the letter to the dca?

[PGH7447]

if they ring refuse to answer their securtity questions and just say in writing and put the phone down

 

Dear Cretins

 

This debt is in dispute with the DVLA as such any further attempts to enforce collection of this alledged debt will be treated as harrassment.

 

I now require your complaints procedure by return, where upon I will instigate an official complaint against you and your company.

 

I also reserve the right to report your conduct to the OFT and trading Standards

[Danny Fearn]

thats sounds about right!

 

thanks

 

i will keep you informed

[Danny Fearn]

does this look ok for the letter i should send them?

 

and thanks again for everyones input!

 

i will include the case number etc in the letter:

 

To whom it may concern,

As per our phone conversations I dispute this alleged debt with the DVLA and insist you return this matter to your clients.

This debt is in dispute with the DVLA as such any further attempts to enforce collection of this alleged debt will be treated as harassment.

I now require your complaints procedure by return, where upon I will instigate an official complaint against you and your company.

 

I also reserve the right to report your conduct to the OFT and trading Standards.

Daniel Fearn

[nehpets]

Personally I just ignore them.

[Danny Fearn]

does this look ok for the letter i should send them?

 

and thanks again for everyones input!

 

i will include the case number etc in the letter:

 

To whom it may concern,

 

As per our phone conversations I dispute this alleged debt with the DVLA and insist you return this matter to your clients.

 

This debt is in dispute with the DVLA as such any further attempts to enforce collection of this alleged debt will be treated as harassment.

 

I now require your complaints procedure by return, where upon I will instigate an official complaint against you and your company.

 

I also reserve the right to report your conduct to the OFT and trading Standards.

 

Daniel Fearn

 

right i've had a reply to the letter i sent:

 

Dear Mr Fearn

 

In accordance with our instructions by the DVLA, you were the registered keeper of an unlicensed vehicle, registration as above on 01/01/2009 (i clearly didnt own this car at this time ha)

 

We must therefore recover the full amount outstanding, including all additional costs in accordance with statue.

 

Should you wish to avoid this action, you must pay £80 immediately, other with legal action through the County Court may commence and your vehicle may be clamped and impounded.

 

what shall i do from here. i just want this over and done with its ****ing me off haha!

[crem]

A DCA cannot ignore the fact that the debt is in dispute, and and as such must return the file to the DVLA who, if they wish, must try to establish the debt through a court.

[Britainsworstdriver]

I totally agree.

 

The DCA cannot persue this if you have informed them the debt is in dispute. Let DVLA take you to court. They do not have a case.

 

Your legal obligation was to (in this case) send the yellow portion of the V5 to DVLA informing them the car is now 'in trade' and thus you have no further responibility for anything to do with the car. Any parking tickets, taxing, SORN or anything else will fall upon the new keeper, albeit not a registered keeper as they are in trade. As such the car does not decalring SORN and this is the twofold purpose of sending in the yellow slip. If there are any offences, the DVLA know who is the keepr of the car (contrary to the registered keeper) and it was also done to cut down on paperwork and to avoid un-necssarily adding keepers to the V5 everytime a dealer or garage bouight or sold a car, which they often do between themselves.

 

Your duty was simple. Send the yellow slip away. You did that. There is no case. Let them go to court. They will lose. Do not be frightened by court. They are there to ensure things are done correctly.

 

DVLA want to make you pay money because a car that you sold wasn't updated by their incompetence. You are NOT responsible for a car you no longer own as long as you did your required part and sent the yellow slip, which you did. End of problem. Let them argue with a judge who will throw them out and award you costs.

[gwc1000]

Danny, if it were me, I would write back to the DCA reminding them that the matter is in dispute, and inform them that all further correspondence from the DCA will be ignored and not responded too. And I would stick to it.

[Danny Fearn]

ok i would feel better writing to the dca and telling them why i dispute the debt, but i know they will just send me a letter back saying in accordance with section 7a of the log book you should chase the dvla up after 4 weeks if you dont get a confirmation letter through the post!

 

do you even get one of these if u sell it to a trader?

[Britainsworstdriver]

That is incorrect.

 

What it actualy says is that the DVLA will send a confirmation letter AFTER 4 weeks. It doesn't say within 4 weeks or before 4 weeks, but AFTER. That is an indefinite period of time except that it will NOT be within 4 weeks.

 

So, when they say 'if you do not receive....' How long should you wait? 4 weeks? 5 weeks? 2 years? There is no defined time and thus they could not penalise anyone for failing to comply, because you could ring now and fully comply.

 

Your legal obligation is to inform DVLA of disposal by sending the relevant part of the V5. In most cases this is the whole V5 except the green slip that you give to the new keeper. The exception being the sale to a garage or trader, in which case you sign and date the V5 as the seller, but then send the yellow slip with their details to DVLA.

 

You have complied by doing that as I have said before.

 

The DCA have no authority to harrass you. DCA's are not bailiffs and have no powers at all. All they will and can do is nag. You have already told them it is in dispute. Leave it there.

[mkb]

DVLA took my OH to court for exactly the same thing 3yrs ago. In court were 4 others charged with the same 'offence'.

Judge took 2 mins to tell DVLA they had no case as they could not prove the change of owners slips had not been posted!

 

Ignore DCA and let DVLA take you to court. You WILL win

[Danny Fearn]

thanks again people for all the help adivse!

 

i think im going to send the dca a final letter explaining why i dispute and if they would like to take me to court i will see them there!

[crem]

You have no reason to "explain" to the DCA why you dispute the alleged offence. Your informing them of a dispute with the claim is a legal absolute, requiring them to withdraw, and allow the principle claimant (the DVLA) to pursue it through court if they so wish.

[gwc1000]

thanks again people for all the help adivse!

 

i think im going to send the dca a final letter explaining why i dispute and if they would like to take me to court i will see them there!

 

Danny, don't bother explaining, as it will just fuel another letter telling you to pay. Just tell them you dispute the matter and will enter into no further correspondence with them, and make sure you do ignore subsequent letters. Also the DCA cannot take you to Court, it has to be DVLA.

[patdavies]

I wholly agree with Crem and GWC100