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ShowMeTheLight

Unenforceable Credit Agreement May Save My Life

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Hello All,

 

I have been lurking these threads and posts and want to start by thanking you all for some of the information I have acquired, it is greatly appreciated.

 

I have run up large debts on my credit card and loans and I blame no one but myself, however reading about the unenforceable credit agreements I was persuaded to file my case and see what happens.

 

I have the following Debt just for completeness. (Please note these figures are not exact but just an approximate.

 

1. NatWest Loans - £15 k

2. NatWest Credit Cards - £2.7k

3. Mint Credit Card - £3k

4. BarclayCard - £2.8k

5. Marbles Credit Card - £3k

6. Virgin Credit Card - £0.6k

7. Citi Credit Card - £3k

 

Having read through the threads I sent all these companies via Recorded Delivery on the 23 July 2009 the following letter.

 

Preliminary Letter

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

To:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Account/Ref No:

 

With reference to the above agreement, I would be grateful if you would send me a copy of this credit agreement and a full breakdown of the account including any interest or charges applied.

 

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 [sections 77-79], I am/we are entitled to receive a copy of any credit agreement and a statement of account on request.

 

I enclose a payment of £1 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

I understand a copy of any credit agreement along with a statement of account should be supplied within 12 working days.

 

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with the request for a copy of the agreement and statement of account under these sections of the Act.

 

Please do not send me a copy of my signed application form, to comply with section 61 of the consumer credit act 1974 which by the way refers to the signing of an agreement (Not an application), a document must conform to regulations made under the provisions of section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 otherwise it cannot be properly executed

 

Now then, these regulations I refer to are the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553). These regulations set out the form and content of agreements. For an agreement to be compliant with the regulations it MUST embody within the agreement, the prescribed terms laid out in the SI1983/1553 without the prescribed terms the agreement does not conform to section 60(1) 1974 and therefore cannot be properly executed as described in section 61(1) CCA 1974.

 

For your information in case you are unsure. The prescribed terms referred to are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following--

(a)Number of repayments;

(b)Amount of repayments;

©Frequency and timing of repayments;

(d)Dates of repayments;

(e)The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

 

If you cannot supply me with a document, which complies with the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and ALL of the Regulations made under the Act, I shall be forced to make a complaint to Trading Standards and I will also draw this to the attention of the Office of Fair Trading .

 

I respectfully request you review this matter in light of my comments above and I request that you supply me the required information or alternatively confirm the account is closed and the debt written off with a zero balance.

 

I respectfully request a reply within 14 days of the date of this letter.

 

Thank You,

 

Yours Sincerely

 

ShowMeTheLight - I reserve the right not to sign this letter.

 

-------------------------------------------

 

Now that I have sent the letters off I was considering the following actions.

 

1. Keep all the recorded delivery slips.

2. Use Royal Mail to confirm that the letters have been delivered.

3. Call the companies and confirm they have recieved the letter as they sometimes lie and say they have not recieved anything.

4. Find an email address for the relevent department and email them aswell and keep the name and contact details of case handlers.

5. Wait Until 7th August and write the following letter (Ref A) if no response has been recieved.

6. If they Send me just the application form signed without the Signed Credit Agreement or just an unsighned Credit Agreement I propose to write the following letter (Ref B).

7. If nothing is sent to me within 32 days I will write the following letter (Ref C).

8. If nothing is recieved then and harassment continues over the phone I will record all the conversations on my computer and lodge a formal complaint to the police and write the following letter to the Complain (Ref D)

 

Please can the Oracles and Pundits of this site rubber stamp my proposal and inform me of anything else that may help my defence. Many Thanks in Advance.

 

 

(Ref A)Follow Up Letter If no Response Has been recieved

 

DEFAULT UNDER THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974

FAILURE TO PRODUCE AGREEMENT

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: ***********************

 

I wrote to you by Recorded Delivery ( Ref ***********) on ********, 2009 asking for a copy of the above agreement together with the relevant information under Section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, enclosing the statutory payment of £1.00. This letter was delivered and signed for on ***** , 2009.

 

The Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for this request to be carried out before your company enters into a default situation. This occurred on *******, 2007. This time limit will has expired.

 

I have still not received a true copy of the agreement as required by S78 Consumer Credit Act 1974, just a blank copy of an agreement on which your company has hand printed my wife’s name and an incorrect address. As such I can only assume that no contract was ever signed by me wife. As you are no doubt aware

 

A credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and is therefore a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

Please take note that any legal action you may contemplate will be vigorously defended and contested.

Furthermore your actions arguably do not comply with the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) Debt Collection Guidelines of July 2003, in that you have ‘communicated in an inaccurate or misleading manner (section 2.1) by ‘presenting information in that it creates a false or misleading impression’ and ‘failing to provide information on the status of debts’.

 

Should you nevertheless choose to initiate legal proceedings against me, I will expect to receive, with any Letter before Action, a copy of the document that you will be relying on as proof that a properly executed agreement, complying in all respects with the form and content requirements of the CCA 1974 was signed by my wife in respect of this alleged debt.

 

 

What I require

 

I require you with immediate effect to ensure that all data held by you regarding the alleged agreement/debt is removed from any and all Credit Reference Agency database.

 

Ensure that all data held by you regarding myself is fully destroyed.

 

Ensure that no telephone calls are made to me.

 

Ensure that all correspondence is made in writing.

 

I require written confirmation of the above together with a quarterly statement that no data has been processed by you regarding myself.

 

Failure to comply

Failure to comply with my request under the Data Protection Act 1998 will result in the matter being referred to the Information Commissioner.

Failure to comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 will cause me to refer the matter to the Office of Fair Trading, and Trading Standards.

Failure to comply with the requirements Office of Fair Trading guidelines will lead to a report being submitted.

Continued telephone contact will generate a complaint for harassment to the police.

If you fail to comply with any or all of the above I reserve the right to take action against you without further contact.

I expect to hear from you within 12 working days from the date of this letter.

 

Failure to do so will be taken that you have complied with my request and I will consider the matter closed.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

------------------------------------------

 

(Ref B) Failure to Supply a Credit Agreement that is Signed

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Thank you for your letter dated X 2009.

 

It would seem that you are of the belief that you have discharged your obligations under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 in particular section 78(1).

 

You have provided me a copy of an application form and I feel it is my duty to draw your attention to some serious flaws in your comments.

 

Firstly, to comply with section 61 of the consumer credit act 1974 which by the way refers to the signing of an agreement (Not an application), a document must conform to regulations made under the provisions of section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 otherwise it cannot be properly executed

 

Now then, these regulations I refer to are the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553). These regulations set out the form and content of agreements. For an agreement to be compliant with the regulations it MUST embody within the agreement, the prescribed terms laid out in the SI1983/1553 without the prescribed terms the agreement does not conform to section 60(1) 1974 and therefore cannot be properly executed as described in section 61(1) CCA 1974.

 

For your information in case you are unsure. The prescribed terms referred to are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following--

(a)Number of repayments;

(b)Amount of repayments;

©Frequency and timing of repayments;

(d)Dates of repayments;

(e)The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

 

Now nowhere on the application form that you supplied is there any reference to these terms. I wish to remind you that the absence of these terms will render a document unenforceable in court and I also wish to point out that these terms MUST be contained within the agreement and NOT in a separate document headed terms and conditions or words to that effect

 

Since the document you have supplied is a clear mailer application form, I cannot believe for one moment that these very important terms would be contained on the opposite side of the form, unless they are there for the postman to read while he delivers the mail. Therefore they must have been contained in a separate document, which is prohibited by the SI1983/1553, as there is no clear link to them within the signature document.

 

Therefore, you have failed to supply an enforceable document, which is correctly executed as to be so; it must conform to the Regs under s60 CCA1974

 

I am of the opinion that a court is precluded from enforcing this agreement by s127 (3) CCA1974 as it is improperly executed under s61 CCA 74, the consequences of improper execution are set out in section 65 CCA 1974 and s65 sets out that only a court can enforce an improperly executed agreement subject to certain qualifications, one of those is that the document is signed and contains all the prescribed terms. Now since this document does not contain all the prescribed terms s127 (3) CCA 1974 strictly prevents the court from enforcing this agreement.

 

If you cannot supply me with a document, which complies with the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and ALL of the Regulations made under the Act, I shall be forced to make a complaint to Trading Standards and I will also draw this to the attention of the Office of Fair Trading .

 

I respectfully request you review this matter in light of my comments above and I request that you supply me the required information or alternatively confirm the account is closed and the debt written off with a zero balance.

 

I respectfully request a reply within 14 days of the date of this letter.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

----------------------------------------------------

(Ref C) - 32 Days Past from Preliminary Letter and No Response

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: 50879182

Dear Sir

I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company. You have now failed to supply me with a copy of the original signed agreement for the alleged “debt” you are trying to enforce. This request was sent on 23/07/2009 together with the statutory fee of £1.00.

 

I have given you more than enough time to supply the original signed agreement and you have now exceeded the allowed time. By not supplying the documentation I believe you have now committed a criminal act under the legislation contained within section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 as it has been more that 30 days since you recieved my correspondance.

 

You are reminded that you were obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the CCA 1974.

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

I will therefore no longer be making payments against this "debt" as it is unenforceable. I now consider the matter closed and no further correspondence regarding payment will be entered into. If you persist on pursuing payment you will have left me no choice but to report this matter to Trading Standards

 

Thank You,

 

Regards

 

ShowMeTheLight - I reserve the right not to sign

 

-------------------------------------------

 

(Ref D) - Complaint About Credit Card Company

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I am writing to complain about a company (name of Company), whose business address is (Business address). This company have been contacting me in order to recover a debt which I do not acknowledge to them.

 

On (Date) I wrote to (Company) requesting a copy of the original signed credit agreement in respect of an alleged debt this company had been contacting me about.

 

This is my right under the legislation contained within s. 77 (1) and s. 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act (CCA) 1974. I enclosed the statutory amount of £1 (by Cheque) as payment.

 

(Company) are obliged to supply these documents, whether they are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.

 

I believe this company have now committed a criminal offence as they have failed to provide a copy of the original signed credit agreement or default notice and have been in default for more than one month since the initial 12 working days allowable under the above mentioned legislation expired.

 

A default has been recorded on my credit file in respect to this matter and I would like it removed as I believe it has been applied unlawfully. Also I believe that (Company) will continue to pursue me both by telephone and letter to repay any alleged debt.

 

I have written to them asking them to remove this default and to confirm to me that I owe them no money. I would like you to investigate this company regarding this matter and take action against them. I am of the opinion that they are unfit to hold a consumer credit license.

 

I have included a copy of the CCA request sent to (Company) on 2nd August 2006 and also a copy of the complaint / non compliance letter I sent to them on 9th October 2006.

 

 

Yours Faithfully

------------------------------------------------------------------

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hey, good luck - I am going through the same thing.

 

I am sure that with the help of the good people on here, we can improve things.

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You may be getting a bit ahead of yourself here, In your part D you mention a criminal offence after 30 further days from the initial 12+2, that is no longer applicable & was removed from the act.

 

I'd just stick to the CCA requests via recorded or special delivery & check for recipt online with the Post Office website.

 

Then take each case as a seperate entity as it unfolds. I mean you've got bits about hand written names of your wife in there??? have you alredy received such???

 

Morph

Edited by xx.Morph.xx
spelling

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Thanks for the direction Morph, I used some of the templates on the CAG forums, must proof read them properly.

 

Also thanks for the update about not being a illeagle, this is all new to me so I will make the changes as instructed.

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Yep, I would check with the Royal Mail to ensure that the letters have been delivered (sometimes there is a delay in reporting them delivered, but I think that is because they are all delivered in a batch or something). Don't bother ringing them to see if they have the letters, they will probably say no or try and get you to pay off the account over the phone.

 

You will probably get some pretty shirty letters back threatening all sorts. Don't panic. Wait and see what the response is, and if you get anything that is claiming to be a CCA then scan it up onto the forum (obviously removing personal identifyable details first) and we will take a look.

  • Haha 1

Beating the DCA's day by day

 

My fight:

NDR - CCA'd 12+2 passed

Bank of Scotland - CCA'd 12+2 passed

CFS - Win by Technical Knock-out!:lol:

HFC Bank - CCA'd 12+2 passed

Chantry Collections - CCA sent

 

Time flies like an arrow

Fruit flies like a banana :D

 

<---------- Have I given you top advice, have I made you laugh, click on the scales, it won't hurt you! :grin:

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You really do need to take each case as it comes - a separate thread for each once you have their replies - and be guided on each stage by stage. If you send screeds and don't know what you are talking about, the banks/DCAs will know you don't know what you are talking about. By dealing with it stage by stage you will begin to understand consumer law and find out for yourself how to manage each case. Golden Rule- don't speak to them on the telephone - ever. By the way, this is not a debt avoidance forum. You will be advised only on debts for which you have a genuine dispute.

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Thanks BerryLover - Your advice has been taken on board, I will create seperate threads for each response. Also I will not panick when the gloves come off.

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You really do need to take each case as it comes - a separate thread for each once you have their replies - and be guided on each stage by stage. If you send screeds and don't know what you are talking about, the banks/DCAs will know you don't know what you are talking about. By dealing with it stage by stage you will begin to understand consumer law and find out for yourself how to manage each case. Golden Rule- don't speak to them on the telephone - ever. By the way, this is not a debt avoidance forum. You will be advised only on debts for which you have a genuine dispute.

 

Thanks Pnky69 - I guess your right, I have to understand the law otherwise they the Creditors will be led to believe they are dealing with novices. I will need all the help I can get. I will also refrain from speaking to them on the phone. Thanks Again.

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I have just realised I have made a terrible mistake. I sent a cheque for the statutory £1 and signed my name. Whats the likelihood that these banks will use this signature if they fail to produce a bonafide document.

I am really beating my self up for this.

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While they may use a Photoshopped signature to mock something up in order to pretend that they have a CCA, it's hard to imagine that even a DCA would be so stupid as to forge a document and produce it in court. So I wouldn't worry yourself needlessly over it.

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While they may use a Photoshopped signature to mock something up in order to pretend that they have a CCA, it's hard to imagine that even a DCA would be so stupid as to forge a document and produce it in court. So I wouldn't worry yourself needlessly over it.

 

Thanks Huff&Puff for the reassuring words, I use to work in the banking sector before I was made redundant so I know what these bankers are capable of. I there anything I can do to safeguard myself now?

 

How about a letter of some sorts? Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thank You.

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I have just recieved a response from Barclaycard I have decided to start another thread and can be found here. I would appreciate the direction of the senior and junior caggers.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/212727-unenforceable-credit-agreement-barclaycard.html#post2336091

 

Thanks

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I was wondering do I need to make payments while I am persueing these Credit Card Agreements? Thanks You in advance.

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If you are already making payments, carry on for 14 days after they have recieved your CCA request. If you don't get a valid, enforceable CCA within that time, send an "in dispute" letter (by recorded delivery) and stop paying them.

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If you are already making payments, carry on for 14 days after they have recieved your CCA request. If you don't get a valid, enforceable CCA within that time, send an "in dispute" letter (by recorded delivery) and stop paying them.

 

Thank You Huff and Puff.

Will this affect my credit ratings?

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Yes, but when things get to the DCA stage, your credit ratings are probably shot to hell anyway. Personally I have taken the view that I would never want credit again, and so I don't give a stuff about my credit rating. Others may be able to advise what you can do to try and repair yours if it is important that you do so.

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Yes, but when things get to the DCA stage, your credit ratings are probably shot to hell anyway. Personally I have taken the view that I would never want credit again, and so I don't give a stuff about my credit rating. Others may be able to advise what you can do to try and repair yours if it is important that you do so.

 

That makes two of us - no credit EVER again!

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That makes two of us - no credit EVER again!

This can however cause problems with Renting a House, new Utility suppliers etc.

 

It is best to wat until the 14 days are up, then make a decision.

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Hi to everyone. I am really sorry but I am finding it difficult navigating my way round. I have heard the adverts on local radio from companies offering to represent me re: unenforceable debts, and as I am in a financial mess - i thought of looking further into it. I get the impression that such companies are a no- no - I don't have any spare cash to pay their fees anyhow.

 

Can anyone point me in the right direction to get me started!!

sorry but i am a complete computor illiterate.

Thanks for any help

fifi

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Hi to everyone. I am really sorry but I am finding it difficult navigating my way round. I have heard the adverts on local radio from companies offering to represent me re: unenforceable debts, and as I am in a financial mess - i thought of looking further into it. I get the impression that such companies are a no- no - I don't have any spare cash to pay their fees anyhow.

 

Can anyone point me in the right direction to get me started!!

sorry but i am a complete computor illiterate.

Thanks for any help

fifi

Hi And welcome to GAG,

 

You will need to start a new thread for each of your issues, for example if you are dealing with 3 credit cards, then a new thread for each.

 

If you go to the main page, link below, you will find a button near the top of the page marked New Thread. Just pop a title in and a description of your problem or situation in the message box. As much info as you feel comfortable with.

 

Debt Collection Industry - The Consumer Forums

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I have just recieved a response from Natwest Loan and it is looking very promising initially, consequently I have started another thread for your advise and guidance.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/214584-unenforceable-credit-agreement-natwest.html#post2360768

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Having not recieved a response from

 

Marbles

Virgin

Citi

 

After posting the 2nd letter for an unenforceable Credit Agreement, I require the assistance of Senior Caggers to advise me further.

 

I have posted the thread below.

 

As usual thanks in advance.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/218096-unenforceable-cca-marbles-virgin.html#post2406548

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I have just posted a new thread on my Egg Cards, if you want to folow my progress please check the links below. Senior members input would be invaluable.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/218101-unenforceable-cca-egg-card.html#post2406583

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