casbah is this covered by CCA 1974 creditor says NOT

[casbah]

Hi Guys here is a copy of the contract, both sides with my personal details erased.

 

Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket

 

credit agreement picture by casbah_02 - Photobucket

 

not sure if I have done this right but here goes

Cas

[maroondevo52]

Hi, Cas.

 

Image is too small, what sort of account is it ?

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[the_shadow]

This is Casbahs post on another thread where she was asked to post up her application.

 

He! He! most days I don't understand what I'm saying!!!

Here goes...........The creditor cited terms under the CCA 1974, (default), but when I tried to cite terms under the CCA 1974 I was told this contract was not covered by the CCA 1974, and I had no rights, also one term on the contract stated that they could add interest at 2% per month, yet the term that stated I would be given a 4% per month rebate, for the remaining term, was omitted.

Also I had a claims company check out my contract and they said that because it was hand written, and other discrepancies (wouldn't elaborate till I coughed up £400) so I'm guessing that this was not "pre-described terms" so I wonder if that would make it unenforcable.

Cas

Cashbah, can you improve the size of the scans as maroondevo says its too small to read anything on it.

 

S.

Edited July 23, 2009 by the_shadow
corrected sex :-)

[casbah]

ermmmmmm how would i do that

I could load another image through photobucket and see if thats any better

cas

ps cas is a she

[cerberusalert]

Try it with TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting then copy & paste the URL back here.

[casbah]

this might be better

agreement picture by casbah_02 - Photobucket

 

bathgatecontractreverseside.jpg picture by casbah_02 - Photobucket

 

hope these are better

cas

[IdaInFife]

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh55/casbah_02/hireagreementbathgatewithpersonalde.jpg

 

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh55/casbah_02/hireagreementbathgatewithpersonalde.jpg

[casbah]

Scott

it should ahve been a hire purchase but it is a hire agreement.

 

Cas

[casbah]

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh55/casbah_02/hireagreementbathgatewithpersonalde.jpg

 

Thank you Ida

[IdaInFife]

ah you done it yourself as well just cerb and scott not zooming in lol

 

ida x

[the_shadow]

Well it clearly is an agreement regulated by the CCA1974. It says so at the top and in the signature bit down the bottom.

 

I'm not too hot on loan agreements as cant work out the math %s for apr and stuff so someone else will have to advise on that aspect.

 

Were you given a default notice for this agreement?

 

Other thing is how much of the amount has been paid back as I see it was taken out in 2006 for 36 months?

 

S.

[maroondevo52]

ah you done it yourself as well just cerb and scott not zooming in lol

 

ida x

 

Excuse me !!! cerb and I can zoom as well as the next person

[cerberusalert]

I've 5 grandchildren & a greatgrandchild to prove it.

[cerberusalert]

It is covered by The Consumer Credit Act 1974

Edited July 23, 2009 by cerberusalert

[cerberusalert]

The Consumer Credit Act 1974 lays down rules about how consumer credit agreements and consumer hire agreements must be documented. There are also rules about how and when copies must be given to the borrower or hirer.

 

The detailed rules on the documentation of agreements are set out in the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983, as amended in 2004 (the Regulations). http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2004/uksi_20041482_en.pdf further amendments http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2004/uksi_20042619_en.pdf

 

In addition, there are rules about the information to be given to borrowers before entering into a regulated agreement - see pre-contract information - The Office of Fair Trading: Pre-contract information and during the lifetime of the agreement - see post-contract information. The Office of Fair Trading: Post-contract information

 

The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations

 

The Regulations apply to all regulated consumer credit agreements and consumer hire agreements, including modifying agreements.

 

In particular, the agreement must contain certain financial and other information. This must be set out in a specified order, with sub-headings, and shown together as a whole. The information must be of equal prominence, and easily legible.

[casbah]

Well it clearly is an agreement regulated by the CCA1974. It says so at the top and in the signature bit down the bottom.

 

I'm not too hot on loan agreements as cant work out the math %s for apr and stuff so someone else will have to advise on that aspect.

 

Were you given a default notice for this agreement?

 

Other thing is how much of the amount has been paid back as I see it was taken out in 2006 for 36 months?

 

S.

 

Aha now we hit sticky ground............

This agreement was December 06, default served March 07 ( now the reason for this was I spat my dummy out and demanded to know where my £2k deposit had disappeared to, they passed me from pillar to post so being a thicko said "right I'm not paying till you tell me where my money gone" lo and behold default served).

On the back of the contract clause 5 says " default and other enforcement rights"

a) we have the right to charge interest at the rate of 2% per month on all overdue amounts. This interest will accrue on a daily basis from the date the amount falls due until it is received and will run both before and after any judgement.

b) you agree to pay us any charges or costs shown in 'key information'

over the page which may become payable, including our reasonable legal costs for enforcing this agreement."

BUT clause 7 Default remedies says

If any event described in clause 6 occurs, we shall be entitled, afetr giving you written notice (without prejudice to any previously accrued rights and remedies we may have to end this Agreement) to;

a) repossess and sell the goods( this they did, but had a seperate agreement with the supplier to buy the machine back should the business fail within the first six months) and

b) recover form you:

i) rentals and other amounts accrued due to us at the expiry of the written notice,plus (ii) a sum equal ( on the date of termination of this agreement) to the present value of rentals ( including the final Rental) that would have, but for such termination, have accrued due between the date of termination and expiry of the Fixed Period of Hire such sum discounted between the date of termination and the expiry of the Fixed Period of Hire such sun discounted at the rate stated in clause 11(d) from the date of termination to the end of the Fixed Period of Hire less the net proceeds of sale of the Goods if repossessed and sold or thei value as determined by us, if not sold.This net sum shall bear VAT.

 

Clause 11(d) 'present value of rentals' means the aggregate of such rentals net of value added tax after discounting each rental at 4% from the date of termination to the date on which such rental would ahve fallen due but for termination.

[casbah]

It is covered by The Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Aha the creditor says this is a commercial agreement therefore not covered by the CCA 1974, So that begs the question " why would they have printed across the top it is, fooling lil ole casbah into thinking she has rights when she don't really?"

 

Also in court docs they added clause 5 Default and other enforcement charges but omitted claue 11(d) my discount.

 

Also they never disclosed the seperate agreement with the supplier to buy machine back..............so stretching the truth, to the moon and back.........I am wondering if I can argue that as they secured this agreement soooooooooooooo tightly they had reservations, and therefore should never have offered such a high amount of credit ( £6.5k cost of machine total price £11k)

Also they had the money for the machine in may 07 but didn't credit my account til August 07 ( just b4 court case commenced) thus pushing the amount above the £5k small claims track.

They secured a charge against my property, their representative told judge they didn't want any money just to turn an unsecured debt into a secured debt. Judge granted them charging order, 10 days later I get letter demanding full amount, I had the charging order hearing transcripted and sent them just the parts where they drop themselves in it!!!! Then few weeks later DCA called and I'm hoping they sold account

So what you guys think?

Casbah

[casbah]

the_shadow "Were you given a default notice for this agreement"

 

Yes in March 07, contract terminated 18th April court proceedings commenced April 30th 07

Cas

[casbah]

ah you done it yourself as well just cerb and scott not zooming in lol

 

ida x

AWWWW see, thats the problem ZOOMIN IN and not out makes lots of kids:D

[the_shadow]

Aha the creditor says this is a commercial agreement therefore not covered by the CCA 1974, So that begs the question " why would they have printed across the top it is, fooling lil ole casbah into thinking she has rights when she don't really?"

 

What they say matters not one jot... the agreement clearly states it is covered and your signature is right next to the bit stating clearly it is covered. I wonder which rights they are trying to deny you by stating its not?

 

Was the default notice compliant? Do you have a copy to post up?

 

Also in court docs they added clause 5 Default and other enforcement charges but omitted claue 11(d) my discount.

 

Also they never disclosed the seperate agreement with the supplier to buy machine back..............so stretching the truth, to the moon and back.........I am wondering if I can argue that as they secured this agreement soooooooooooooo tightly they had reservations, and therefore should never have offered such a high amount of credit ( £6.5k cost of machine total price £11k)

 

Did you ask for this document to use for your evidence?

 

Also they had the money for the machine in may 07 but didn't credit my account til August 07 ( just b4 court case commenced) thus pushing the amount above the £5k small claims track.

 

Can you prove the payment was in May but they witheld it crediting until August?

 

 

S.

[casbah]

following one of the links above I have come across this;

Information to be disclosed to a debtor or hirer before a regulated agreement is made

3.—(1) Before a regulated agreement (“the relevant agreement”) is made, the creditor or owner

must disclose to the debtor or hirer in the manner set out in regulation 4 the information and

statements of protection and remedies that are required to be given—

 

Now this is under the pre-contract information, so should the "default interest and other enforcement rights" have been disclosed under the pre-contract information?

cas

[casbah]

What they say matters not one jot... the agreement clearly states it is covered and your signature is right next to the bit stating clearly it is covered. I wonder which rights they are trying to deny you by stating its not? well I spoke to the company that produced this agreement and he stated that it WAS covered but I'm a doubting Thomas and didn't believe him

 

Was the default notice compliant? Do you have a copy to post up? yes I have and yes I can

 

 

 

Did you ask for this document to use for your evidence?

Yes I have an invoice showing the date of invoice and a letter from the supplier detailing the contract to buy back machine but didn't have this in time for court, and a statement from the creditor ( did actually ask for a copy of the application for credit but all they sent me was a statement of account) showing when sale of machinery was credited to account.

 

 

Can you prove the payment was in May but they witheld it crediting until August? yes I can, by the letter/invoice from the supplier.

Cas

 

S.

cas

[the_shadow]

cas

 

Ok,

 

What is it you are trying to achieve.. I think we've stated its covered by the CCA1974.

 

The agreement, you've posted I cant say whether its compliant, I'm not too good on loans and hp agreements I'm afraid.. more info can be found here though ->> http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/105315-my-agreement-enforceable-useful.html

 

The default, you have it and can post to see if its compliant with the regs.

 

Did you receive a termination notice after the default?

 

You were taken to court and have a CCJ against you? Are you looking to get that verdict set aside with the info you now have? Bear in mind it matters not which track this would have been allocated to, a CCJ is a CCJ.

 

Are you looking to have the amount of the CCJ varied, using the payment you made and have proof of and the discount that should have been applied?

 

S.

[casbah]

Ok,

 

What is it you are trying to achieve.. I think we've stated its covered by the CCA1974.

 

The agreement, you've posted I cant say whether its compliant, I'm not too good on loans and hp agreements I'm afraid.. more info can be found here though ->> http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/105315-my-agreement-enforceable-useful.html

Yea already posted on here

The default, you have it and can post to see if its compliant with the regs.

 

Did you receive a termination notice after the default?

Yes I did about 12 days later

 

You were taken to court and have a CCJ against you? Are you looking to get that verdict set aside with the info you now have? Bear in mind it matters not which track this would have been allocated to, a CCJ is a CCJ.

Looking for whole lot to be thrown out and if I have grounds I want to sue them.

Are you looking to have the amount of the CCJ varied, using the payment you made and have proof of and the discount that should have been applied?

No Considering the machine cost £8,500 I paid £2k deposit and then £1100 in payment and the machine sold for £6k and I am left with a £9k debt and all for less than 3 months, a bit extortionate don't you think?

 

S.

 

Cas

 

Also on the pre-contract info shouldn't it state there what the default interest and other enforcement charges would be? The pre-contract is in template form but none of the sections have been filled in yet they are PRINTED on the hire agreement.

Cas

[casbah]

THE CONSUMER CREDIT (DISCLOSURE OF INFORMATION) REGULATIONS 2004 ("the Information Regulations")

THE CONSUMER CREDIT (AGREEMENTS) (AMENDMENT) REGULATIONS 2004 ("the Agreements Regulations")

Section 61(1)(a) prescribes that a regulated agreement is not properly executed unless a document in the prescribed form containing all the prescribed terms is signed by the debtor and the creditor or hirer.

 

So does this mean they can sign it at their office, away from me?