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Hello,

 

I have managed to get the CCA's from Skycard, got them through the post this morning. I have attached the 4 files (4 pages).

 

Can someone please inform me whether it is enforceable to get the debt wiped off?

 

Kind Regards

Page 1.pdf

Page 2.pdf

Page 3.pdf

Page 4.pdf

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i can see an application form with no prescribed terms. t ans c's with prescribed terms but cannot see any links or refernces or paged numbers to link them.

 

when a debt is unenforceable all that measn is you are not obliged to offer any payment to them not that tehy wipe the debt, it will remain

 

ida x


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Thanks IdaInFife.

 

So what do i do now? Do i tell them i will not offer any further payments?

Or i just make payments as per usual as nothing can be done in this case?

Is there a letter template i need to use?

Edited by britguy79
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you can withhold payment and send them this:

 

Dear Sirs,

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

This account is in Dispute .

On xx/xx/2007 I wrote to xxxxxxxxx requesting that xxxxxxx supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.

In response to this request I was supplied a mere application form which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say none of the terms are present in the document

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

Since the agreement is unenforceable and the default notice is non compliant, it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for your client to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days

 

I trust this out lines the situation

 

Ida x


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Thanks again Ida.

 

I will get that letter filled out with the Skycard details and printed and posted out. I will post any response i get on here.

 

Thank you

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I received a response from Sky card today. I have attached the letter which they have sent me. What do i do now, if anything?

 

Thank you in advance!

Page 1.pdf

Page 2.pdf

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you may need to go down this route to see if they do indeed have the agreement:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

 

 

otherwise it may be a game of ping pong with letters,

 

 

ida x


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I don't quite understand?

 

They did send me the agreement, which is in my first post in this thread. It is 4 pages. So i sent the letter for which you provided the template for in this thread.

 

Ok firstly, what if the agreement they sent is the original and correct one? How do i respond to the most recent response from Sky card?

 

If it is not the correct agreement then i have to send the following letter?

Dear Sirs

 

Account number

 

I write with regards to the above account with your organisation.

 

I respectfully request that you provide me by return a copy of the credit agreement which bears my signature. I require this as i have reason to believe that there may be discrepancies within the agreement which may leave it improperly executed.Additionally i require the underwriting sheet or other document showing any commissions paid to you by the broker or by you to the broker

 

(If you have any other reasons why you need the agreement such as misselling of PPI Add it here)

 

obviously if the agreement is improperly executed i would be entitled to ask the court to consider the agreement and make a declaration of the rights of parties to the agreement.

 

I must stress this request is NOT made pursuant to section 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 but is made pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules ( Pre action protocols and Part 31.16) and therefore unsigned copy will not suffice, only a copy of the original contract in its unaltered form will suffice in these circumstances

 

Please confirm if you still hold a copy of my signed agreement and that you will provide me with this document.

 

I do not view this as an unreasonable request given that by supplying the document which i have asked for it will allow me to assess if my case has merit and will help to resolve matters possibly without the need to involve the court and will undoubtedly save costs on both sides

 

I look forward to your reply and wouyld ask for a response by 4pm on XXXX Date ( Give 21 days to respond)

 

 

Regards

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what they had sent you was unenforceable as the applciation form itself had no terms and conditions and there was no link between the t and c's.

 

You have advised them it is dispute because of this but they are saying they will not recognise the dipsute.

 

why i put the linkthere is that they HAVE to provide a signed agreement if you use the above letter (in red) and if they donlt you can follow the process throught to get a court to MAKE them produce on if they have one.

 

Using the cca route, there a few 'loopholes' that they can get around and it normally ends up with this senerio, you say in dispute, they say not and then you just have to wait to see what they are going to do.

 

It's your decision on what you want to do.

 

Hope that explains it a bit better,

 

Ida x


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Thanks again Ida, that makes more sense.

 

Just one more question, the letter template in red, requests the form with a signature, which they have already sent. Should i state in the letter that the application form itself had no terms and conditions and there was no link between the t and c's?

 

I ask cos the letter doesn't mention the t and c's and i am pretty sure they will respond saying they sent me the signed form. The letter which they sent me that i posted the attachments for today included the exact same 4 pages that i originally posted first on this thread.

 

Thank you

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i wouldn't, i would keep your cca and cpr as two seperate requests

 

ida x


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Huh? I am lost now. I thought the CCA was what i was requesting?

So what is the CPR? How do i request that?

 

So this letter i am sending, they should be aware they need to send me the signed form with the correct t and c's???

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you letter in red in post 8

ida x


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Oh ok i see. So that is basically stating that i am after the original contract.

 

So if they send that, i can post it on here for it to be checked?

 

If they don't respond within 21 days, i send them the second letter at the link above?

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Oh ok i see. So that is basically stating that i am after the original contract.

 

yes

 

So if they send that, i can post it on here for it to be checked?

 

yes

 

If they don't respond within 21 days, i send them the second letter at the link above?

 

yes

Ida x


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Well stupid Sky card AGAIN sent me the same application and t&c's as i attached in the first post. They have informed me they have sent them to me 3 times and will not send them to me again. This was after i used the template above in response #8.

 

What do i do now?

 

Oh they did contact me after i wrote to them saying i could only pay £1.

They said even though i went through Payplan, i have to go through Citizens Advice Bureau and they have to provide a letter in order for me to pay £1. They said something about Debt Management, what exactly does that mean?

 

Kind Regards

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you decidewho you go through not them. just keep paying the £1

 

you need to go to 2nd stage of the link:

 

FORMAL REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

CPR part 31.16

 

Dear Sirs

 

Account number

 

On XXXXX i wrote to your organisation requesting that you supply me a copy of the agreement for my account. My request extended to the full agreement which bore my signature. Additionally i require the underwriting sheet or other document showing any commissions paid to you by the broker or by you to the broker {ONLY USE IF RELEVENT AND INCLUDED IN THE FIRST LETTER}

 

I enclose a copy of the letter which was sent should for your information.

 

I note that to date i have received a reply from your organisation, which included an application form which has noneof the prescribed terms and a set of standard terms and conditions, i have still not received a copy of the agreement which i requested. In view of the circumstances i do not feel it unreasonable to ask for this document to be disclosed, it is not commercially sensitive nor is it a restricted document and should be easily accessible for an organisation such as yours. therefore i would ask that you provide me with a copy of the contract which bears my signature, i require the complete document with all its parts .

 

the reasons why i require this information are clearly set out within my original letter dated XXXXX , but for clarity i require this document for the following reasons

 

1.I require this as i have reason to believe that there may be discrepancies within the agreement which may leave it improperly executed

 

2. Because i believe that the Payment protection insurance was not correctly incorporated within the agreement

 

3.because i believe that there was a commission paid in repect of this agreement which has not been disclosed to me and therefore is a breach of agency law

 

4. ...................

 

 

 

 

 

 

since this matter is likely to be subject to proceedings and gioven that your organisation is likely to be a defendant in any action which would be brought by me, i must draw your attention to Civil Procedure Rules part 31.16(3)©&(D) which gives the court the power to order you to disclose this document to me.

 

The disclosure of these documents will allow me to consider any claim i may have against your organisation and will allow for the matter to be dealt with possibly without the need for costly litigation. Therefore i again ask that you provide me with the documents which i have previously requested . I don't not consider this request unreasonable and therefore if you fail to comply with my request i will be left no option but to make an application to XXXX County Court for an order made under the provisions of CPR 31.16 ordering you to disclose the documents which i have requested.

 

additionally i will ask the court to make an order for my costs in bringing this application and reserve the right to disclose all communications in this matter before the court should such an application become necessary

 

Please confirm by no later than 4pm on XXXXXXX that you will comply with my request or if you will not comply, please provide your reasons in writing

 

Regards

 

XXXXXXXXXX


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Thanks Ida.

 

Even though i am paying the £1, i am being charged late fees, which is not cool. I will send that letter which you mentioned in your most recent post.

I don't get where it is numbered 4. Do i just print the letter as is in regards to 4?

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no it just there incase you need to add something, if not just delete it

 

ida x


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I am preparing the letter now. In the below part, i am now sure what i replace the X's with?

 

I will be left no option but to make an application to XXXX County Court

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The XXXX is your local court which handles bankruptcy hearings. Check at www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk. Click on 'Court Information and Addresses' and look up your nearest County Court. In the 'work type' box, you are looking for Bankruptcy.

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