Further help required PLEASE - Rossendales and COuncil Tax

[eliza2705]

Dear All

This site has been a great help over the last few months so here I am again, like a bad penny asking for yet MORE help

 

My last thread has disappeared now (I think) so a brief outline - hubby and I owed CT for prev address from 2 years ago. Rossendales conned hubby into signing a WPO as they told him it was an "instalment plan" hubby believed him (German speaking, didn't totally understand and also suffering severe depression). Also the bailiff levied against a hire car which was in our driveway. They didn't gain peaceful entry, conversation took place at front door. Rossendales wrote to us stating that they could "enter our home in our absence or not, with or without permission as the WPO had been signed".

 

I wrote to council complaining about actions of bailiff, said that as we're on benefits, hubby on invailidity aloowance due to his depression that we may be deemed "vulnerable" and that Rossendales made an illegal statement when they said they could force entry as peaceful entry was not gained. I refused to have any further dealings with Rossendales in the letter and requested they take debt back into their administration. Received letter from council stating they had investigated the matter and there was no illegal action taken by bailiffs. They refused to take debt back and told me to deal with rossendales and "provide the financial information so reasonably requested". It was also said that there was no reason to believe hubby didn't understand them (he said bnothing, was in a bit of shock I think). I also wrote to rossendales stating they had no more right to see my financial info - incomings/outgoings etc than I had to any of theres and I refuse to deal with them.

 

Someone suggested paying council direct via standing order or bank transfer but I need their bank account details.

 

I'm so sorry to post such a longwinded message, so many things going through my head (other debts too ) I'm having oprobs sorting wheat from chaff.

 

Any ideas as to how to proceed? Form 4? Or do I just give in, send bank statements etc to rossendale and TRY to deal reasonably with them.

 

Thanks in advance for any advice given.

 

Eliza

[hallowitch]

have you been in touch with your M P over this

i remember your thread i think and if i remember correctly the car they levied on is not yours

if the bailiff has not gained peacefull entry he has no right to enter now the walking possession was on a car this does not give him the right to enter your home as the only thing he can remove are goods written on the walking possession agreement

[impecunious]

Eliza - sorry to hear about your problems with Rossendales. I can't help with all your queries but I'm sure someone with more experience will come along shortly and advise you.

 

I'm currently dealing with Rossendales so have some idea of what you're going through.

 

If you need the council's bank details, just contact them for a copy of the Council Tax bill for the year in question - that will also give you the correct reference number so that all payments you make in respect of arrears can be credited to the outstanding liability (otherwise I believe it will be deducted from your current year's CT bill). Don't tell them in advance that you're planning to pay them direct. After the first payment has been made, send them a copy of your incoming/outgoings and suggest a repayment plan that you can realistically sustain each month.

 

Alternatively, if you do internet banking - you'll probably find their bank details listed under the "payments/transfers" section - that's how I pay the council direct and bypass Rossendale.

 

I would suggest that you would come under the "vulnerable persons" category and being on benefits, there is only a limited amount that you would be expected to pay. As English is not your husband's first language, I would also suggest that also presents as being "vulnerable" - certainly disadvantaged when it comes to understanding the concept of bailiff powers, etc.

 

I know it's easier said than done but take strength from all the great advice that people on here are able to offer. Knowledge is power and the more information/knowledge you can glean from others, the more control you will have in this situation.

 

Please try not to worry - it's all just a process and, with the help and support of fellow CAGgers you'll survive it!!

 

Keep in touch -- take care

 

 

Impecunious

 

Believing in positive mental attitude

[hallowitch]

National Standards for Enforcement Agents

 

May 2002

 

Those who might be potentially vulnerable include:

• the elderly;
  
• people with a disability;
  
• the seriously ill;
  
• the recently bereaved;
  
• single parent families;
  
• pregnant women;
  
• unemployed people; and,
  
• those who have obvious difficulty in understanding, speaking or reading English
  

[hallowitch]

if you have to file a form 4 please read this it was posted by tomtubby

amend for yourself your needs remember to add your hubby dealt with bailiff and he does not understand or read English very good

 

 

My comment is made on the basis of experience of the many cases that are being made to the Courts which are being rejecting on the basis that a Form 4 is the wrong course of action as the company should have first been given the opportunity to correct any mistakes.

 

A Form 4 Complaint is a serious matter and if the court agrees that the complaint is serious enough he can ultimately take away the bailiffs certificate which will lead to him being unemployed and this is possibly why some courts consider that the compliant should first be taken up with the bailiff company.

 

For the collection of council tax, if a person is "aggrieved" at a levy made by the bailiff, Regulation 46 of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regs 1992 provide that an application should be made to the MAGISTRATES COURT .

 

The following is a TEMPLATE of such a complaint and in all cases that we have advised on, it is recommended that a copy is sent to the LOCAL AUTHORITY and the bailiff company before being sent to the Magistrates Court.

 

Any questions, please post back...

 

 

Mr Jo Blogs

1, High Street

Anytow

Post Code.

 

The Chief Clerk[/font]

xxxx Magistrates Court[/font]

 

 

 

Date:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Council Ref: xxxxxx[/font]

 

I am writing to request that you issue a Summons against xxxxxxx Council by virtue of Regulation 46 Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regs 1992 as a matter of urgency.

 

 

 

 

I am aggrieved by the levy carried out by Mr Smith of ABC Certificated Bailiffs on (enter date) for the following reason:

• The bailiff visited my premises and he has provided a Notice of Seizure of Goods & Inventory advising me that he has levied against a vehicle that was outside/on the drive of my home.
  
• This vehicle is not owned by me. I do not know the owner of the vehicle and it would appear that the bailiff has assumed that this is my car because it was parked close to my home.
  
• The bailiff in seizing this vehicle, has charged me a levy fee of £50 together with an enforcment fee of £150 and I am advised that unless I pay the amount of the Laibility Order of £xxx together with the charges associated with this levy, that the bailiff will be attending at my property to remove this vheilce to satisy my council tax arreas and in addition I will also be liable for further charges for "attending to remove" and I could also be in position of being personally liable to the owner of the vehicle.
  
• I have written to the bailiff company and the local authority concerning this levy but my complaints have been ignored
  

[eliza2705]

Hi Guys

Thank you both for your replies. I did quote in my letter to collections manager at council the "National Standards for Enforcement Agents", however he replied that in "reviweing case notes and previous correspondence with (hubby) I could find nothing to support your contention that he would have had significant difficulty communicating with the Bailiff"..well, no, that's because write all letters on his behalf and he just signs and on the telephone he just agrees to anything anyone says rather than admit he doesn't understand!! I stated that hubby suffering from depression and on medication and pointed out that this could be deemed "vulnerable", council said I obviously was not vulnerable as I had ably dispayed my ability to communicate in the letter I sent (thanks CAG for template but think it made me sound more intelligent than I am!lol) And so council have informed Rossendales to deal only with me from now on!

 

The point I made about the bailiff claiming he could access our home with or without our permission/presence despite never having gained peaceful entry AND levying a hire car was ignored. No comment made.

 

I'm still very loathe to forward details of our ic/og to rossendales, as someone on this forum said - I have no legal obligation to provide this (I hope that's true as that's what I said).

 

Impecunious, I think I'll check out online banking and see if I can find council bank details and just write confirming first payment, that's a good idea, thanks.

 

I am definitely going to pursue the fact that rossendales made an illegal statement when they claimed they have a right to access our property. I also have this in writing from them (never phoned them, not after finding this site) so I shall write again to the council threatening Form 4 should they refuse to address my complaint. I'm turning into a terrier with a bone thanks to this site!

 

Don't feel "quite" so disempowered now

 

Elizah

[ambershadow]

All bailiffs make false statements because they think that poeple don't know their rights or find this forum.

But when they do they have a change of heart all of a sudden

 

Pay online to the council and then email or write in with a copy of your payment slip they won't refuse the money

 

And bailiffs know that it's not against the law NOT TO PAY them but you must pay the council tax so do it online

 

Good luck

[eliza2705]

Thank you all again for your help - Impecunious...I logged onto my online banking and found the council in question so made a payment today. Phew, that's a weight off. Now I shall write offering repayment proposal and maintain that I shall continue to have no contact with Rossendales whatsoever.

 

Thanks all again. This site is a great confidence booster - knowledge is power!

grin

 

Eliza

[hallowitch]

when you write to the council send a form 4 with the letter tell them if the don't remove all charges connected with walking possession agreement that has a hired car levied on it with in 14 days the form 4 will be sent to the court and you will also complain to local government ombudsman about the conduct of the council regarding this matter

the bailiff and the council know that a D V L A check can confirm that car was not yours

why should you pay unlawful charges

send the form 4 to the bailiff company also

[eliza2705]

Thank you very much Hallowitch. I have already given both the LA and Rossendales the opportunity to rectify the bailiff's mistake with ref to the levy on the hire car. They both totally ignored that point in my letter so I shall do as you advise. Wish I could let everyone in this position know about this site. It's been invaluable. Thanks again x

Eliza