3 refusing to cancel new contract - help please (fairly urgent)

[DB_SamX]

Hi,

 

I need some advice on behalf of my brother please.

 

His 3 contract was coming to its end, and 3 customer services somehow convinced him to upgrade to a N97 on a higher price plan, with the option to return it within 14 days if he still wasn’t happy.

 

Now he isn’t and today is the 14th day.

 

Yesterday, he phone to get the new contract cancelled but 3 customer services were having none of it because apparently, the phone has been used and they can tell by the IMEI.

 

Now he’s strictly adhered to the t&c’s:

 

He has not put a sim in, used any of 3’s services (call, text, internet…), uploaded/downloaded or personalised anything.

 

He has however checked out the menus, and used the internet via home wifi (the t&c doesn’t specifically prohibit this – only use of 3 services is not allowed).

 

Regardless of these fact, 3 refuse to accept the above, stating he’s categorically broken the t&c’s and that is in his notes.

 

Now, I know my brother is right. He does have the address to which to return the handset.

 

• Considering today is the 14th day, is it sensible to still return it recorded delivery, as well as send a letter of cancellation dated today, disputing their false claims?
  

• How can they prove the t&c’s was broken by my brother?
  

• If he carries out 1, what is likely to be the outcome?
  

• Would it be wise to cancel the DD before the next payment is due or not?
  

Many thanks.

 

p.s. Yet again, 3’s appalling customer service. I’ve been with them 5 years and have tolerated it. Not anymore I think – cancellation time in 2 months.

 

 

Edited July 21, 2009 by DB_SamX

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

Sorry I cant read the terms of purchase as they are too small

[DB_SamX]

Apologies for that; corrected hopefully now.

 

 

P.s. Having just popped into the 3 store, the chap said that this return policy only applies to the handset and not the new contract i.e. once anyone agrees to upgrade for another 18 months, there is absolutely no comeback. If that is true, no one in customer services used that argument. Obviously late now but doesn't DSR 7 days cooling period apply to that?

[DB_SamX]

Well, I personally got fed up with it and let my brother sort it out in the end. Had to get him to call 3 again despite one of their managers promising to call today. He convinced 3 to offer him the contract for £35 a month for M&M300 + internet (so free) and a £20 voucher + N97 of course.

 

I may not have been so lenient if it was my own phone as I'm more savvy.

 

He was only going to get a HTC magic and a simialar package for £30/month.

 

Now I still don't agree with their customer service, and as such will ask my brother to write a complaint letter to exec office, asking about all the "lies", ignorance, false promises, etc and copy in OFCOM and OTELO. And I won't stay with them despite the £8 off loyalty bonus I've accrued over 5 years or so. The gap between packages between various networks is closer these days.

 

That's assuming there's nothing wrong when they send a letter confirming the price plan.

[locutus]

They are correct on upgrades, they don't need to cancel a contract due to DSR's

[buzby]

And for further clarification (to correct a misnomer) nobody's contract 'comes to an end' only the minimum term is reached. If NOTHING his done, then his contract carries on until he gives 30 days notice of cancellation. Upgrades do not have the protection of a 14 days cancellation, and DSR would not apply if the phone was supplied via a retailer - only if delivered by post/courier.

[DB_SamX]

So effectively, the common practice of upgrading your phone with another 12/18/24 month min. term deal is purely an extension of your existing contract and DSR doesn't apply as such?

 

If so, and as a lot of phone upgrades (free or at cost) are done over the phone and DSR covers that physical part, what happens if you want to return the phone within 7 days? Do you basically lose out on a hanset (if free, or cost of handet refunded) but nothing you can do on the contract extension?

[buzby]

DSR wouldn't apply anyway - you are enterng into a service contract, and since it is renewing an existing one, there is no provisional period to assess the service. The SIM sontinues as before, and SOGA applies for the handset itself. Once the contract is confirmed then, even with a 'free' handset its residual value it almost nothing. What most people do is SELL the new handset AS new (on an auction site) and pocket the money, continuing the contract with their original handset.

[casbah]

So Sticking with the 3 thread but moving slightly, has anyone ever encountered their price plan " promise"

I have a contract with 3 but the deal was 200 mins any network and unlimited text, for £20 pm My first bill come in at £106.00 and when I spat my dummy out it turns out that when I made a 10 second phone call they charged me for the full minute, so my so called 200 minutes soon evaporated, ( i have spoken to the other mobile phone providers and they have said they only chrge to the second and I believe this as I was on a PAYG price plan where I had 100 mins and 200 text, once I'd run out no service) and I can't find anything in the contract or T&Cs to say they charge a minimum of 1 minute per call. It turns out that the so called 200 minutes were used within the first 10 days, with no warning of this, any advise?

Cas

[buzby]

They're all doing it now. (Actually, this was how ALL mobile call were billed in 1985 when Cellnet and Vodafone started). Back then they could charge per second, AND provide itemised billing at no charge but times get hard and they find different ways to skin a cat.

 

Since the deal has not really changed - 100 minutes ARE achievable, but since there is a minimum connection of 1 minute, you lose 60 seconds, even if your call is just 5 seconds. This is allowed, and if you think about it, is far cheaper than the fixed BT network, which charges 7p on CONNECTION, then an ongoing per minute fee which is buttons.

 

They've been doing this on contract since 2006 (exact date varies by network) but because ALL contract customers are on the same arrangement, and their tariff sheets do state calls are billed in 60 second increments, there is nothing really you can do - except try to fin another network that isn't so unfriendly.

[casbah]

Thank you for that Buzby

I can't find anywhere on their bills or website that states a minimum of 60 seconds and they refuse to send me a copy of my agreement and T & Cs

so ho hum time will tell

Cas

[buzby]

It is in the Price Guide - a Web copy can be read here;

 

http://www.three.co.uk/_standalone/Link_Document?content_aid=1214305748126

[DB_SamX]

DSR wouldn't apply anyway - you are enterng into a service contract, and since it is renewing an existing one, there is no provisional period to assess the service. The SIM sontinues as before, and SOGA applies for the handset itself. Once the contract is confirmed then, even with a 'free' handset its residual value it almost nothing. What most people do is SELL the new handset AS new (on an auction site) and pocket the money, continuing the contract with their original handset.

 

A thought crossed my mind: does chaging tariff/minimum monthly charge at the point of upgrade still count as continuation of the existing contract instead of a new one?

 

In my brother's example, he was on M&M300+internet at £20/month and the renewal/upgrade would incur an additional £15/month for the benefit of the new handset (figures not exact).

[buzby]

If no new handset is provided, or if the new tariff is not dependant on a lock-in, then the existing contract rolls on. However if a new phone is provided (as an upgrade) then the contract and its minimum term will restart at whatever the agreed new minimum happens to be. (It doesn;t follow if the first was 12 months, the next will be the same).

[DB_SamX]

Buzby,

Thanks. Struggling to understand however what you mean by lock-in and you last sentence in brackets.

 

Is there also somewhere that explains the difference between extension/new contract in this respect? I don't mind reading it for myself as well.

 

Regards, Sam

[buzby]

There is no 'extension'. If a contract exists, it will last forever unless recinded or replaced by a 'new' contract. The references to an '18 month contrract' are incorrect, what is meant is there is a minimum term applied before notice of cancellation can be given without a penalty.

 

A lock-in is a fresh minimum term period.

 

Within an existing contract, it is possible to upgrade and sometimes downgrade a tariff without making any material changes - whilst a new handset many not bring with it a new contract to 'sign' it inevitably brings a new contract number, or a suffix ;etter/number to your original contract (this depends on the network).

[albertjohn]

Hi Guys

 

New to this forum but very impressed. Does this apply to Carephone warehouse as well?

 

I have just upgraded a long standing CPW o2 contract (12 months of 18 used) and the new mobile (LG Arena) is not fit for purpose (hangs a lot, probably better for pictures etc not business). I had problems after day one and before 7 days sent them a recorded letter asking for my contract to be returned to where it was (including the new incentives on the tariff) but they have written and refused.

 

Intend to return it by recorded delivery and ask them to revert to previous contract position. I did call in to the store to choose it so guess DSR won't apply but members here seem to have threatened providers and they backed down, albeit for different mobile providers.

 

I wondered what type of letter to write and which aspect(s) of the CCA or other laws to quote?

 

I am very used to taking on authority but everything I have read here and elsewhere suggest I have inadvertently, by upgrading, in effect lost the right to even a 7 day cooling off? Failing that what about not being up to the job (fit for purpose)??

[buzby]

Afraid as an upgrade (and an advance upgrade at that) you have no right of rejection. Its suitability for YOUR purpose is not an issue - if the handset is otherwise OK for anyone else, and it is just you who desn;t like it, you're only option is to sell it on privately (keeping the SIM) and using a phone YOU really feel will do the job.

 

They have no interest in you returning a phone that has little or no value to them (they cannot sell it as new). This is a case of you need to be sure you pick the right handset - they are not sold on approval.

[albertjohn]

Thanks and I understand. It is not that I don't like it, the handset demonstrably hangs and struggles with the volume of email I receive and has other smaller failings which surely make it unfit for purpose? I am aware that changing your mind is not reasonable but I can demonstrate being unfit for purpose- any recourse?

[buzby]

Volume of email should not be an issue - however large emails more properly destined for PCs and heavy on graphics will always be a trade-off - which is why the Blackberry with its dedicated email servers is more 'up' to the job, but it costs extra over and above the cost of the handset.

 

Since the handset can send and recieve email it IS fit for purpose, just not yours. But just like buying a car or a house, you need to ensure the specifications of the product are adequate for YOUR purchase needs. If it isn't, the solution remains, sell it on and buy what will. Nobody provides a free swap if you're choice was wrong. Only if there was an identifiable fault that could be rectified.

 

Find out what your Firmware software level is - there is a possibility that it may well have bneen updated to fix the problems you've identified, and you'll be up and running without difficulty after a re-flash! (This worked for me with the early Samsing Omnia).

[albertjohn]

Thanks for the advice, much appreciated:)

[buzby]

I've heard the Arena HAS had a S/w update - check what you have at the moment, and check online for the latest revision. You may be able to do it yourself if your handset missed the update before you bought it!

[DB_SamX]

The outcome of this was that I wrote a long detailed letter to 3 wanting answers for everything - why they said he'd used the phone when he hadn't, the lies, false promises about calls, sending out wrong price plans in letters. I also said that I wanted them to somehow make up for all these.

 

They have yet to reply with answers, but someone called my brother and gave him and extra £10/month off. He got an email confirming it.

 

Good outcome from a financial pov but still doesn't make their customer service shortcomings any better. Bit like a bribe.

 

Now, I'm eligible for an upgrade next week. Not sure whether to stick with them because they offered some money off or leave because their CS will forever be rubbish. I get £8/month loyalty discount.