Mardy bailiff and CTAX LO

[fwog]

Hi

 

I would just like to know if is there any further advice on this issue as its going to court on the 6/8/09?

 

As theres conflicting advice on this , a clarifying post would be grateful.

 

:)

 

 

 

 

Many thanks

 

Fwog

[fwog]

When was the Liability Order made?

 

Hi Sequenci,

 

The liability order was made on the 26/06/09. For a hearing date for 16/8/04.

 

Hope that makes a bit more sense. :)

 

Fwog

[sequenci]

That is very interesting! Can you remember when the last payment was for that year? I'm wondering when the final demand for the year may have been made?

[fwog]

That is very interesting! Can you remember when the last payment was for that year? I'm wondering when the final demand for the year may have been made?

 

Hi

 

Thanks for the reply

 

There wasn't a payment made that year as I remember, most of it (the £465 )relates to 2002/2003 . I've paid £650 just before Christmas for the 2004 bill

I don't know where they've got the 16/08/04 date from. As far as Im concerned, that date is satisfied and the 2003 -2002 bills are the only ones outstanding.

 

 

Any thoughts ?

 

Cheers

 

Fwog

Edited July 28, 2009 by fwog

[fwog]

Hi

 

******New Update*****

 

just received another liability order 24/7/09 for the 2/8/04 for £269.45?

 

 

What gives??

 

 

:confused:

 

 

Fwog

[sequenci]

That is very strange, you may wish to get a maladministration complaint on the go. Your local authority is a little strange, it's not Birmingham City Council per chance?

[fwog]

Hi Seq

 

Right been onto the council and they said the £269 is for 2002 and the £465 is for 2003. Funnily enough , she hung up when I told her the call was being recorded....wonder why?

I didnt get anywhere with them at all, asked to set up a payment schedule and they wouldn't accept anything less than £100 a month. So after she hung up I went to the councils website and paid this weeks instalment. I just want this to be sorted and the councils officer wasn't having it at all.

 

What have they done that they shouldn't have?

 

Maybe I can have a dig if there's something to go on?

 

Cheers

 

Fwog

Edited July 29, 2009 by fwog

[fwog]

Hi guys,

 

Had a few issues back in 2009 with and old council tax bill that ended up at the bailiffs. They're paid and I thought that was the end of it. I've just received a bill for £700 from the same authority for the same address. It hasn't gone to the bailiffs ....yet.

The letter states 'action within 7 days' but the date on the letter is over week ago already and it has been sent second class

 

Spoken to the council, asked for the L.O. and a print off of the dates and amounts owed. I did live at the address in question and was in the process of moving out, so may have missed a payment or two, but one of the amounts in the £700 is for a whole tax year 1/4 to 1/4. So I'm assuming I'm paying for time not accounted for by the council ie. cant find a payer, so hang it on the old tenant.

 

Why didn't they pursue this when they were paid last time ,instead of waiting so long to sort it out? Can I prove I was somewhere else? No, banks hold records for only 6 years, how I'm meant to find evidence going back nearly twice as long

Any pointers would be greatly appreciated Is there a possibility of coming to a settlement figure rather then the whole £700 as it has been so long since the debt was due? I know they can pursue for 1 years, but it seems verging on the idiotic, to have payment from me four years ago for a separate debt on the same property, then decide to send out a bill now.

[renegadeimp]

If you dispute the debt, why would you want to settle? They dont have proof you owe it or they would have taken you to court already. Get on to your bank and get those records. A SAR would be a good idea in this instance. Tell the council that the alleged debt is 100% disputed and you are waiting for the information from your bank.

[fwog]

If you dispute the debt, why would you want to settle? They dont have proof you owe it or they would have taken you to court already. Get on to your bank and get those records. A SAR would be a good idea in this instance. Tell the council that the alleged debt is 100% disputed and you are waiting for the information from your bank.

 

Well first and foremost, I'm scared.

 

The last time they sent a very intimidating bailiff who door knocked the whole street asking about me. It took months and months to live it down. I just want it to go away. Any way possible.

[renegadeimp]

If a bailiff did that, then you MUST report them. They can have their licence revoked for doing that. You also need to STOP being scared. They 100% rely on intimidation to get what they want from you, including unlawful additions to any debt owed. There are plenty of people in your shoes, and after some good info, they walk away much less scared and confused.

 

Please try not to worry anymore, and hold on for a couple of hours. I'll see if i can get someone more knowledgable to advise you, so you can see there really isnt much to worry about at all.

[renegadeimp]

One question that is very important for this 11 year old debt. DO you have bailiffs chasing you now, or are they simply making threats to get bailiffs involved?

[sequenci]

Hello there. Have you an idea when the Liability Order was obtained? This needs to have been within 6 years of the full amount of the debt becoming due. Once they have obtained the order they, in theory, could try and chase for payment forever although you could consider a maladministration complaint - first to the council and then on to the Local Government Ombudsman.

[fwog]

Hi

 

No ,no bailiffs involved yet. This is why I'd like to get this finalised before they send in the thugs.

The LO was from 2004, so it says on the letter. I've asked for a hard copy to be sent along with the bills dates and information.

[renegadeimp]

Have you had any bills previous to this for that debt

[fwog]

No. I satisfied a debt back in 2009 for the same address, 8 years after I had owed it . That was the last I heard from them Admittedly, things were a bit complicated there ,so some bills were not paid.

[unclebulgaria67]

So raise a dispute with the council in regard to the period you do not feel that you owe any council tax. You may have to supply some form of documentation to show that you were not resident or other reason for not being liable for council tax.

[stu007]

Here is the DWP SAR

[fwog]

So raise a dispute with the council in regard to the period you do not feel that you owe any council tax. You may have to supply some form of documentation to show that you were not resident or other reason for not being liable for council tax.

 

Thanks for the replies.

My problem is it was 11 years ago. The bank doesn't hold records past 6. I do not routinely hold my mail for more then 3 years . It then gets incinerated. So evidential disputes are out of the question. I would think its unenforceable as the council can send anyone a bill from upto 20 years ago, but you'll only be able to prove the last 6. Bit rum, but hey, I'm only a pleb

[ploddertom]

You need to speak to someone at the Council and ask the following questions:

1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you

2 - the dates they were obtained

3 - the addresses they were for

4 - the period of time each covers

5 - how much each one was for

6 - how much is still outstanding

7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement

8 - the dates & amounts of any payments

[tomtubby]

If you are worried about this supposed "debt" you could make payment and state very clearly in your letter to the council that you are paying under "duress". After making payment you can then make Freedom of Information requests and the first one will be to ask the LA for details of their "write off" policy. It would be inconceivable for any council to keep 11 year old debts on their books and it may well be that this "debt" was actually "written off" long ago.

 

Also, you have every right to ask for PROOF that a Liability Order had been granted. The council must provide this.

[fwog]

Thanks folks!

I've obtained a letter from the council. Its a print out (not very clear either) of dates and payments made. There is also written confirmation of the dates owing.

No copy of LO. No other information. Just a cover letter reiterating the conversation with dates the stated by call operator and two printouts of account for each amount.

 

This is a good sign as it seems it hasn't been committed to court. I will ask the above and also submit a SAR next week.

[fwog]

I've just reread the cover letter sent with the statements and at the bottom it says:

'I have checked to see if a copy of the summons was possible but the archived summons only go back to August 2004 so it is not possible to issue a copy though I have enclosed statement of both years.'

 

So no Liability order, and no record of the summons, is this to my favour?

[unclebulgaria67]

Yes. If they don't have proof of the liability order being issued and 6 years have passed, then they can whistle.

[fwog]

Yes. If they don't have proof of the liability order being issued and 6 years have passed, then they can whistle.

 

They've only confirmed there is no record of the summons. I'm hedging my bets as to whether or not they can get a copy of the Liability Order. If they have no evidence of the summons, does it follow that the LO isn't available either?