Barclaycard (ex morgan stanley) No CAA ** SUCCESS STORY **

[roygoodbeat]

I have been following this forum for a while and need some advice.

 

I had an account with Morgan Stanley, which was taken over by Barclaycard.

 

This year due to the current market, my income fell and I could no longer afford payments. I started receiving a number of calls from Barclaycard despite me asking Morgan Stanley/ Barclaycard to remove my telephone numbers last year (Got fed up with sales calls). Each time I asked them to stop calling on my phone, and to put any correspondence in writing.

 

On the 27th April I wrote to them using the data protection subject access request and to ask them to put things in writing only. I also asked them again in writing to stop calling.

 

Whilst they sent me some of the information requested, they did not send me a copy of the CCA and terms and conditions. I logged a complaint with the information commissioner regarding the fact that they refuse to remove my contact details and did not send me all the information requested under my access request.

 

I issued them on the 10th June (received and signed for on the 11th) a request for a copy of my credit agreement and relative documents under the consumer credit act (sections 77- 7:cool:.

 

They promptly sent me back an unsigned terms and conditions from Barclaycard stating that they had forfilled their obligations under this request. (Only thing was, the terms and conditions were for Barclaycard 2004. The account was with Morgan Stanley at that time)

 

I have sent them a letter advising me that this was not acceptable and not the information they are legally obliged to send.

 

They have written claiming that the cca has been sent. To date, this has not been sent. I also have another barclaycard account. The same thing has happened. Only Terms and Conditions sent, no cca.

 

Any advice or counter letter would be appreciated. I have attached the letters they have sent. I understand that they have 12 + 2 working days, which we are outside of, plus one calender month to send this. This expires on the 1st August.

 

From reading the forums, it would appear that a number of people have had the same experience. How come Barclaycard can get away with this and not comply with the consumer credit act or data protection act?

 

Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act.

There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for.

There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes.

Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort".

This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act.

If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes.

Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it.

If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now.

There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled.

Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995.

If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

barclaysstandard.pdf

barclayscomplaintreply.pdf

[slick132]

Have you looked at the CPR strategy to get sight of your credit agreement. See Link No2 in my signature below.

 

BC will just respond with the same stuff about how they've fulfilled their obligations imposewd by CCA 1974, and will not send you the agreement in response to a CCA request, no matter how many times you write to them.

[roygoodbeat]

I know. I wrote to them and they wrote back saying that they had sent it. Never had, just their terms and conditions from 2004. The account was with Morgan Stanley then.

 

What are the rules on section 77/78. Most forums say that they should reply within 12 (+2) working days with a copy and then a calender month before they commit an offense. What happens if they continue action and apply further charges and interest whilst the account remains in default.

 

Looking at the sites, this appears to be barclaycards tatics. Has anyone reported this to the oft or trading standards?

 

I have also requested the original cca document under the data proection act and they have not produced it then. (Outside the 40 day rule) I pointed this out to barclaycard about this request under the data protection act but they claim they are acting within the law.

 

What are the rules on the civil procedure process?

 

I am trying to sort my finances out and Barclaycard are delaying this.

 

Any suggestions on a letter? Lots of questions but I want to get this sorted!

[slick132]

Spend some time reading up on the CPR strategy at Link No 2 in my signature. It will help you decide if this is how you want to proceed, once you understand what's involved.

 

Complaints have been made to the FOS, the OFT, Trading Standards, the ICO and probably others.

 

This is also an important thread to read - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/165349-smt37-morgan-stanley-goldfish.html

[roygoodbeat]

Hi

 

Sent Barclaycard a notice that they are in default of my cca request and that they had until the 1st August to produce a valid signed cca agreement, not terms and conditions.

 

I also included a cpr request as well. Their response?

 

No letter, only a phone call from Mercers stating that they had forefilled their responsibilities, did not want to know about a signed cca agreement and said that the terms and conditions were all they had to send. Mercers threatened a doorstep visit and hang up when I advised them that the terms and conditions sent were for barclaycard, not morgan stanley.

[slick132]

Hi RGB,

 

To avoid this nonsense, tell them all your calls are now being recorded, then hang up.

 

See here about doorstep visit - http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/591-dca-home-visit-if-you-receive-or-are-threatened-with-a-doorstep-visit-

[roygoodbeat]

Already done. Wrote a similar letter. They just ignored it.

[roygoodbeat]

Just had mercers on the phone yesterday, making threats about home visits. They again stated that barclaycard had sent me all they legally had to send (Only T&C). Did not want to know about a signed credit agreement or the fact that this account is in dispute. I also advised them that I would report both barclays and them to the oft and trading standards. They did not care and had the attitude "so what, we are still going to pursue the debt and keep calling you as we can and are not breaking the law". Still would not acknowledge that the t&c's sent were for barclaycard, not morgan stanley.

[the_shadow]

Just had mercers on the phone yesterday, making threats about home visits. They again stated that barclaycard had sent me all they legally had to send (Only T&C). Did not want to know about a signed credit agreement or the fact that this account is in dispute. I also advised them that I would report both barclays and them to the oft and trading standards. They did not care and had the attitude "so what, we are still going to pursue the debt and keep calling you as we can and are not breaking the law". Still would not acknowledge that the t&c's sent were for barclaycard, not morgan stanley.

 

You need to stop talking to them on the phone, everything in writing protects your interests and will stop idle threats that are against oft guidelines or unlawful being made.

 

Refuse to go through security with them and either turn the ringer down or unplug the phone if necessary.

 

If you go to a debt charity with your I&E details then they can act on your behalf and under the banking code they have a duty to seriously consider any amount, not saying they will agree to it but more chance if it comes from a charitible organization apparently (FOS told me this). If you go down this route then make sure you advise mercers aka barclays in writing and ask that your account be given the 30days grace period as agreed between the government and the industry to allow you to attempt to get debt help.

 

Are there any charges you could claim back against the account to reduce the balance?

 

S.

[roygoodbeat]

Nothing to talk about. I am going to use a debt charity to help with some of my finances.

 

I am looking to apply for a court order to get barlcays to produce my signed agreement to see if it is enforceable or they have one. If they do not have one, then barclays cannot enforce it. Will leave an offer as a last resort. Barclays and Mercers are being very arrogant and not conforming to my lawfull requests.

 

I am also going to send in complaints to the oft, information commissioner and so on.

[the_shadow]

Nothing to talk about. I am going to use a debt charity to help with some of my finances.

 

I am looking to apply for a court order to get barlcays to produce my signed agreement to see if it is enforceable or they have one. If they do not have one, then barclays cannot enforce it. Will leave an offer as a last resort. Barclays and Mercers are being very arrogant and not conforming to my lawfull requests.

 

I am also going to send in complaints to the oft, information commissioner and so on.

 

Ok link pinched from slicks post above for CPR route http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

 

Dont forget to advise Barclaycard that you are using debt charity and demand they give you 30 days grace period.

 

S.

[roygoodbeat]

After I sent Barclaycard another letter, stating that they had not sent me the orginal agreement using the pre court protocals, Mercers have dropped this and they have now passed this onto another debt collection agency. They are now making 2/3 calls aday, and leaving these meggases on bt's sms text messaging service. The phone keeps ringing as late as 9.30 at night.

[noomill060]

Click on my username and find my threads. Look for for my Morgan Stanley Barclaycard CCA thread and see how I dealt with them.

 

Any PPI on your account?

[noomill060]

Heres the link to save you the bother- I know how awkward CAG has become.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/168312-morgan-stanley-cca-received.html

 

I went through this with Sharkleycard last year. Hope this helps.

[roygoodbeat]

No PPI:confused:

[roygoodbeat]

Went quiet for a while. Then I started receiving letters from Mercers again, then Calder Finance, then Debt Managers.

 

Each time I have made a formal complaint, asking for a copy of their complaints procedures,they have upped the degree of threats and ignored my complaint. The most recent one was threatening action in Rotheram County Court.

 

Whilst not holding my breath, I have written to the Oft, my local trading standards, Banking Code Compliance board and the Financial Ombudsman. Any other ideas?

[slick132]

Hi Roy,

 

There have been successes recently with CAGgers getting their credit agreements from BC after complaining to the FOS. See here for a letter to use - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclaycard/231901-tony3x-barclaycard.html

 

However, I suggest you firstly write to BC saying:-

 

Further to correspondence earlier this year, you have still refused to supply me with a copy of my BC credit agreement.

You say that the Terms and Conditions you you sent me fulfil the requirements imposed on you by the CCA 1974.

I believe I am entitled to a true copy of the original executed agreement and ask that you either:-

1. Supply this as requested in my original formal CCA request of xxdate.

2. Confirm that you will not supply the copy agreement AND that this is your Final Response in the matter.

This will then enable me to raise a formal complaint with the FOS.

Please reply within 14 days.

You need their Final Response before the FOS will look into this.

 

Then you can approach the FOS with the draft letter in the linked thread.

[roygoodbeat]

They have already sent me a letter saying it is their final response.

[slick132]

They have already sent me a letter saying it is their final response.

In which case, proceed with your complaint to FOS as per my earlier post.

 

[roygoodbeat]

Now had a letter from Debt Managers stating that they are closing their file. Probally togo back to Barclays, then onto another.

 

Waiting to hear from the fos. Anyone had any experiences with them. From what I have been reading about them the last few days, they seem useless and do not answer the complaint.

[willy2006]

Sorry youve lost me a bit with this one why would you go to a debt charity and make an offer,surely that sets off the chain again as you admit the debt,the thing you need is either you have an agreement,produce it or you havent sod off!!:-x

[slick132]

Hi Willy,

 

This isn't about whether or not you acknowledge the debt - it's about whether the bank has the documents necessary to get the debt declared enforceable by a court.

 

In my experience here, the debt charities will only help you set up and pay monthly payments when you can't afford the minimum pay'ts.

 

They don't get involved in helping you to stop paying a creditor who you think doesn't have a valid credit agreement.

 

And I've not seen them get involved in negotiating a F&F settlement.

 

The FOS are certainly worth a try to get sight of your credit agreement. They may be of little help in other matters but they do seem to be getting creditors to forward the agreement documents.

 

[willy2006]

I had experience with consumer credit counselling and when i said i was challenging the agreements they continued to pay the creditors against my wishes,ie whilst in dispute i dont pay.CCCS whilst being excellent in every other way i had to take a gamble and leave the comfort of a DMP and challenge 4 agreements luckily it paid off and i havent heard any more from any of them.What im saying is CCCS are no help in validity they just want the creditor paid back and told me i had no chance challenging the agreements.That is why i questioned the reason this person was considering going to a debt charity.

[roygoodbeat]

Barclaycard sent a letter stating that they had forefilled their pbligations on the 16th Juneand had sent me a true copy of my agreement. They still refuse to acknowledge that they have not sent me the agreement, only Barclaycard Terms and Conditions. Depsite my repeated attempts to point out that the original account was held with Morgan Stanley, they have ignored this.

 

My local trading standards office rang after I had sent them a letter.They agreed on the phone that I was in receipt of Barclaycard T&C's and that it would appear that they had not sent me the Morgan Stanley copy agreement. They did say that they could not deal with this and they would have to pass this to their Northampton Trading Standards office to see if they could help get a copy of my credit agreement.

 

I also got a letter from the Office of Fair Trading stating that they do not look into individual cases, yet my Trading Standards Office said that they should be dealing with any breaches of their debt collection guidelines?

 

I am still waiting to hear from the Fos. Any ideas of what to do? I feel tempted to write back to the Office of Fair Trading after reading this forum and others. They surely have had a large number of people writing to them to warrant an investigation. Surely it is their duty to do this?

 

Finally, I have sent Barclaycard a number of letters using the Pre Couirt Protocol rules for a copy of the CCA.(23rd July, 17th Aug, 05th Oct) They have ignored these. What should I do next in this case. Should I send them a final letter giving them 14 days or can I start a court application?Can I also get the court to declare its enforceabilty if they suddenly produce it?

Edited January 3, 2010 by roygoodbeat
adding a few comments

[slick132]

Hi RGB,

 

Complaints to TS or to the OFT will not help in your personal case, although they will hopefully stack up against BC generally.

 

Only the FOS will look at your personal case but you'll have to be patient as they are v busy. Give them a few more weeks to respond - I'm sure you'll here from them shortly.