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Had you sent a SAR to them and did you receive a copy of that screen print amongst the data they supplied ?

 

If so, compare them:)

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Darn it, that means they could include the screen print above.. never mind it was a thought :)

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4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

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Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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As regards the DN, I think you put them to strict proof that one was sent with all the requirements and dates

 

- and when they come out with 'this is a copy from our systmes, you point out their inconsistency by exhibiting two different copy DNs. You also then point out the deficiencies in both DNs.

Arrow Global/MBNA - Discontinued and paid costs

HFO/Morgan Stanley (Barclays) - Discontinued and paid costs

HSBC - Discontinued and paid costs

Nationwide - Ran for cover of stay pending OFT case 3 yrs ago

RBS/Mint - Nothing for 4 yrs after S78 request

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As regards the DN, I think you put them to strict proof that one was sent with all the requirements and dates

 

- and when they come out with 'this is a copy from our systmes, you point out their inconsistency by exhibiting two different copy DNs. You also then point out the deficiencies in both DNs.

 

They are due to file by tomorrow, I will see what happens. :)

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andyorch has been helping you on this hasnt he ?.. lets see if we can send out a search party for him :D

 

If I recall correctly,the DN was invalid wasnt it ? Also their attempt to settle wasnt particularly enthusiastic:rolleyes:

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5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Hi stleonards tis me again

 

Ok the Claimants are going to try for SJ in the event that you do not file a fully particularised defence by said date.That is in their proposed Directions.What did you request in yours?

You now need to wait for the Courts Order Allocation Notice advising of track and Directions.The above is not set in stone until this is recieved but you need to be vigilant and prepare your argument should the DJ go with the Claimants proposed Directions.

Keep an eye out for the above and if the Claimants Directions are allowed watch out for dates and any further applications made with respect to Summary Judgement.

 

Regards

 

Andy

Edited by Andyorch
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andyorch has been helping you on this hasnt he ?.. lets see if we can send out a search party for him :D

 

If I recall correctly,the DN was invalid wasnt it ? Also their attempt to settle wasnt particularly enthusiastic:rolleyes:

 

:D We really must stop meeting like this CB others will start talking!!!

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

PS see above post

We could do with some help from you.

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:D We really must stop meeting like this CB others will start talking!!!

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

PS see above post

 

LOL, yes I was out doing my basset hound impression when you snuck in :D

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5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

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1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Hi Andy :)

Hi stleonards tis me again

 

Ok the Claimants are goig to try for SJ in the event that you do not file a fully particularised defence by said date.That is in their proposed Directions.What did you request in yours?

 

The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order file and serve the following:

 

  • Copies of the Credit Agreement and any documents referred to within it which complies with the consumer Credit Act 1974 and all subsequent regulations, which the claimant seeks to rely upon
  • Default Notice compliant with s87 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) as amended,
  • Document, contract or deed of assignment
  • Notice of assignment, with proof of service of the same compliant with s196 of the Law of Property Act 1925.
  • Copies of any statement or other document relied upon

If the Claimant fails to comply with this order, the claim will be struck out without further order.

 

The Defendant shall within 14 days thereafter file and serve the following

 

  • An amended defence sufficiently particularised in response to the documents supplied by the claimant

If the Defendant fails to comply with this order, the Defence will be struck out without further order.

 

You now need to wait for the Courts Order Allocation Notice advising of track and Directions.The above is not set in stone until this is recieved but you need to be vigilant and prepare your argument should the DJ go with the Claimants proposed Directions.

Keep an eye out for the above and if the Claimants Directions are allowed watch out for dates and any further applications made with respect to Summary Judgement.

 

Regards

 

Andy

I am as vigilant as vigilant can be and I have a basset hound on alert :D

 

I will ring the Court every day, they really are quite helpful.

 

Thanks again.

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Woof, woof :D:D

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2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi again,

 

I have received a letter from the court today, it's here

 

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu180/stleonards_2009/sygmacourt.jpg

 

It states:

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT

 

1. Unless the defendant file and serve a fully pleaded defence, disclosing real grounds for disputing the claim by the 14th October 2009 the defense will be struck out and the Claimant is entitled to enter judgement for the full amount claimed, interest and costs.

 

That's it, short and direct. No other letters have arrived in the meantime.

 

So I guess I need to submit a fully pleaded defence.

 

Thaks.

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Hold on a sec.. how come the order didnt contain the other part to make the claimant provide you with documents not received ??

 

Yes, it looks as though you are going to have to enter a more detailed defence otherwise the DJ is going to let the claimant have the judgement by default.

 

:mad::mad::mad:

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5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Can you point me to a copy of the DN and the CCA.. regardless of whether they are readable.:)

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2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Hi CB,

 

I must admit to being a bit taken aback at that letter from the court, anyway,

 

The CCA is here

 

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu180/stleonards_2009/CCA.jpg

 

The first Default Notice they sent is here

 

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu180/stleonards_2009/default1.jpg

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu180/stleonards_2009/default2.jpg

 

The Second DN they sent is here

 

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu180/stleonards_2009/SecondDN0002.jpg

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu180/stleonards_2009/SecondDN0003.jpg

 

I still cannot read the CCA, either printed out or magnified on the computer or any other way, my neighbour who is a bit of a whiz with Photoshop has been trying to focus it and make it readable but he can't, even after scanning it in at an ultra high resolution.

 

Thanks for your help.

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It looks like you will have to file a fully argued defence stating

1. CCA supplied is not compliant nor legible

2. DN is defective in that it

(a) doesn't contain all terms and

© have any dates as required for service

3. IF transferred to Sygma,

(a) DN identify creditor sufficiently and

(b) no notice of assignment.

Arrow Global/MBNA - Discontinued and paid costs

HFO/Morgan Stanley (Barclays) - Discontinued and paid costs

HSBC - Discontinued and paid costs

Nationwide - Ran for cover of stay pending OFT case 3 yrs ago

RBS/Mint - Nothing for 4 yrs after S78 request

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Are these Default notices you have actually received or are they templates they are saying you Would have received ?

 

What are the supposed dates of sending and remedy dates ?

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

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Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Ok couple of points...

 

This was for a JJB card, Creation Financials handle the cards for JJB apparently, how that links in with Sygma I have no idea...

 

It "looks" like they are claiming post judgement interest, as per the POCS "continuing until judgment or payment"

If this is the case then they needed to have added a warning on either the default notice or the termination notice as I understand it.....

 

This is from the CCA2006 amendments to the CCA1974 Act...

 

130A Interest payable on judgment debts etc.

(1) If the creditor or owner under a regulated agreement wants to be able

to recover from the debtor or hirer post-judgment interest in connection

with a sum that is required to be paid under a judgment given in

relation to the agreement (the ‘judgment sum’), he—

(a) after the giving of that judgment, shall give the debtor or hirer

a notice under this section (the ‘first required notice’); and

(b) after the giving of the first required notice, shall give the debtor

or hirer further notices under this section at intervals of not

more than six months.

(2) The debtor or hirer shall have no liability to pay post-judgment interest

in connection with the judgment sum to the extent that the interest is

calculated by reference to a period occurring before the day on which

he is given the first required notice.

(3) If the creditor or owner fails to give the debtor or hirer a notice under

this section within the period of six months beginning with the day

after the day on which such a notice was last given to the debtor or

hirer, the debtor or hirer shall have no liability to pay post-judgment

interest in connection with the judgment sum to the extent that the

interest is calculated by reference to the whole or to a part of the period

which—

Consumer Credit Act 2006 (c. 14) 13

(a) begins immediately after the end of that period of six months;

and

(b) ends at the end of the day on which the notice is given to the

debtor or hirer.

(4) The debtor or hirer shall have no liability to pay any sum in connection

with the preparation or the giving to him of a notice under this section.

(5) A notice under this section may be incorporated in a statement or other

notice which the creditor or owner gives the debtor or hirer in relation

to the agreement by virtue of another provision of this Act.

(6) Regulations may make provision about the form and content of notices

under this section.

(7) This section does not apply in relation to post-judgment interest which

is required to be paid by virtue of any of the following—

(a) section 4 of the Administration of Justice (Scotland) Act 1972;

(b) Article 127 of the Judgments Enforcement (Northern Ireland)

Order 1981;

© section 74 of the County Courts Act 1984.

(:cool: This section does not apply in relation to a non-commercial agreement

or to a small agreement.

(9) In this section ‘post-judgment interest’ means interest to the extent

calculated by reference to a period occurring after the giving of the

judgment under which the judgment sum is required to be paid.”

 

 

 

S.

 

Hello again,

 

I received a reply from Drydens today and have put the two pages of the letter here:

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu180/stleonards_2009/drydensletter1.jpg

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu180/stleonards_2009/drydensletter2.jpg

 

I think it speaks for itself, basically they are not going to give me anything and I should pay them now.

 

Thank you.

 

Hi,

 

I did a CPR request on 2nd July and got this letter back:

 

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu180/stleonards_2009/drydenscpretter.jpg

 

with the unreadable agreement and the template default notice, should I do another CPR?

 

Sorry it takes a while to reply but I don't have the technical ability with the scanning and cleaning of documents and have to rely on a helpful neighbour.

 

Thanks again.

 

The screen prints they provided to you do show reference to a DN being sent.. but in 2009 and not December 2008 which they claim.

 

Are you able to hand deliver the defence to the court when it is completed ? Just trying to get an idea of when this needs to be done by.

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

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1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Are these Default notices you have actually received or are they templates they are saying you Would have received ?

 

I never received Default Notices, these are templates that they say relate to Default Notices allegedly sent to me. along with "Please note our client does not retain copies of specific default notices, however, records are maintained as to when these have been produced and sent."

 

What are the supposed dates of sending and remedy dates ?

 

The first DN with all the XXXXX's was allegedly sent on 11 December 2008, the second arrived with a letter dated 2 September 2009 stating "From a review of our papers, we believe that we may have previously provided you with an incorrectly headed template copy of the Default Notice. Our client has now provided us with a correct copy of the template Default Notice and we now enclose a copy of the same, by way of service upon you."

 

Remedy dates? I do not know because these templates are all I have ever received.

 

Thanks

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Just to reiterate my post 58

 

Hi stleonards tis me again

 

Ok the Claimants are going to try for SJ in the event that you do not file a fully particularised defence by said date.That is in their proposed Directions.What did you request in yours?

You now need to wait for the Courts Order Allocation Notice advising of track and Directions.The above is not set in stone until this is recieved but you need to be vigilant and prepare your argument should the DJ go with the Claimants proposed Directions.

Keep an eye out for the above and if the Claimants Directions are allowed watch out for dates and any further applications made with respect to Summary Judgement

 

 

You need to check with you CC and ask about the Allocation Notice and your proposed Directions.Dont start drafting an amended defence just because they say so in their Directions,the DJ will view both sets and issue directions and also track vis a vis the Allocation Notice.Chase it up now!!!!!

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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Ok, so we dont know when the dates of these DNs are and whether they gave you sufficient time to remedy them.

 

I am just popping informatin here so I can find it again later on.

 

The Need for a Default notice

 

19. It is neither admitted nor denied that any Default Notice in the prescribed format was ever received and the Defendant puts the Claimant to strict proof that said document in the prescribed format was delivered to the defendant.

20. Notwithstanding point 18, I put the claimant to strict proof that any default notice sent to me was valid. I note that to be valid, a default notice needs to be accurate in terms of both the scope and nature of breach and include an accurate figure required to remedy any such breach. The prescribed format for such document is laid down in Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) and Amendment regulations the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 (SI 2004/3237)

 

21. Failure of a default notice to be accurate not only invalidates the default notice (Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd v Swain and Co - [2001] GCCR 2255) but is a unlawful rescission of contract which would not only prevent the court enforcing any alleged debt, but would also give rise to a potential counterclaim for damages where damage occurs to my credit rating (Kpohraror v Woolwich Building Society - [1996] 4 All ER 119)

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2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Hi again,

 

I have received a letter from the court today, it's here

 

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu180/stleonards_2009/sygmacourt.jpg

 

It states:

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT

 

1. Unless the defendant file and serve a fully pleaded defence, disclosing real grounds for disputing the claim by the 14th October 2009 the defense will be struck out and the Claimant is entitled to enter judgement for the full amount claimed, interest and costs.

 

That's it, short and direct. No other letters have arrived in the meantime.

 

So I guess I need to submit a fully pleaded defence.

 

Thaks.

 

Andy, the court have ordered St leonard to submit a fully partiuclarised defence by the 14th October.

 

It would seem as though the DJ has totally disregarded the Draft Order she submitted with her AQ and relied soley on the DO from the Other side. :(

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Just to reiterate my post 58

 

Hi stleonards tis me again

 

Ok the Claimants are going to try for SJ in the event that you do not file a fully particularised defence by said date.That is in their proposed Directions.What did you request in yours?

You now need to wait for the Courts Order Allocation Notice advising of track and Directions.The above is not set in stone until this is recieved but you need to be vigilant and prepare your argument should the DJ go with the Claimants proposed Directions.

Keep an eye out for the above and if the Claimants Directions are allowed watch out for dates and any further applications made with respect to Summary Judgement

 

 

You need to check with you CC and ask about the Allocation Notice and your proposed Directions.Dont start drafting an amended defence just because they say so in their Directions,the DJ will view both sets and issue directions and also track vis a vis the Allocation Notice.Chase it up now!!!!!

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Now I am confused :confused::confused:

 

This isn't from their Directions, It is a General Form or Judgement of Order from the District Judge at the Court stating:

 

"IT IS ORDERED THAT

 

1. Unless the defendant file and serve a fully pleaded defence, disclosing real grounds for disputing the claim by the 14th October 2009 the defense will be struck out and the Claimant is entitled to enter judgement for the full amount claimed, interest and costs."

 

As I said, no other documents have arrived.

 

It is here:

 

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu180/stleonards_2009/sygmacourt.jpg

 

I am off to the Court now to ask about the Allocation Notice and my proposed Directions.

 

Thank you.

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This isn't from their Directions, It is a General Form or Judgement of Order from the District Judge at the Court stating:

 

"IT IS ORDERED THAT

 

1. Unless the defendant file and serve a fully pleaded defence, disclosing real grounds for disputing the claim by the 14th October 2009 the defense will be struck out and the Claimant is entitled to enter judgement for the full amount claimed, interest and costs."

 

As I said, no other documents have arrived.

 

It is here:

 

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu180/stleonards_2009/sygmacourt.jpg

 

I am off to the Court now to ask about the Allocation Notice and my proposed Directions.

 

Thank you.

 

Hi CB Stleonards

I didnt realise it was from Court, in that instance as you state above find out whats happened to yours and get the order revoked,therefore negating the need to submit a particularised defence until the claimant discloses..

Regards

Andy

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