Bankruptcy and Private Pensions

[loring]

I may consider declaring myself bankrupt in order to rid myself of a couple of debts wich go back to around 2004. I have had default notices issued against them and I have been paying nominal amounts each month since then. and the original creditors do no give me any hassle. One DCA does however.

I have checked my Credit Report with Experian and note that Royal Sun Alliance do a search on my credit file every month for the past 18 months. I have written to them asking them to tell why they are doing this and I await their response.. My pension was with Royal Sun Alliance Royal Sun Alliance until about 6 years ago when I transferred to another pension provider. I have made no applications for credit or services since 1999, so I am a bit concerned that they may be doing these searches fon behalf of a third party, perhaps one of my creditors. Remember my bank balance appears in my Credit Report in the information supplied by my bank so when I take my pension they would be aware of any monies going into my account.

Perhaps I have become a bit paranoid or over zealous about conspiricay theories having read some posts on this forum.

I wouls seriously consider bankruptcy but would need advice about how my pension would be treated during and after bankruptcy.

I would appreciate if any posters in the forum could give me general advice or direct me to someone who can.

 

many thanks

Loring

[AndyOrch]

Hi Loring

 

What type of pension do I have?

 

 

There are basically four types of pension that you may have already, or could be entitled to receive in the future.

• State pension - This will include any payment from the State Earning Related Pension Scheme - SERPS.
  
• Occupational pension - This is a scheme set up by an employer to provide members with retirement and death benefits. Contributions may have been made by the employer, you as an employee, or both.
  
• Personal pension - This is a personal pension policy you have taken out with an insurance company to pay you benefits in later life. (Retirement annuity contracts are similar to personal pension plans. If you have a retirement annuity contract, it will be treated in your bankruptcy in a similar way to a personal pension plan.)
  
• Group personal pension - This is a personal pension policy taken out with a pension provider and often your employer or trade association will have negotiated favourable rates and terms. Following a bankruptcy order, a group personal pension is dealt with in the same way as a personal pension.
  

You may have more than one type of pension and you may have several pensions of the same type. For example, you may have occupational pensions from your present and previous employers.

Will I lose all my pension?

 

Whether or not you are currently receiving your pension, the trustee cannot claim: your state pension or any payments from the State Earnings Related Pension Scheme (SERPS);

• any of your occupational pension if your occupational scheme has a clause forfeiting pension benefits following bankruptcy (the trustee could claim the benefit of a personal pension policy, even if it has a similar clause); and
  
• any protected rights - these rights arise in any pension you may have where you or your employer have contracted out of SERPS. They represent the equivalent of the SERPS benefits within your pension. In an occupational pension scheme, the protected rights might be known as ‘a guaranteed minimum pension’ or ‘benefits under the reference scheme test’.
  

When he or she has all the information about your pension, the official receiver or your trustee will be able to tell you what part, if any, of your pension is being claimed as an asset in your bankruptcy. Even if the trustee cannot claim your pension, or any part of it, the amounts you receive may still be included in the calculation of your income, if the trustee applies to the court for an income payments order’ during your bankruptcy. (The court may order you to pay part of your wages, salary or other income to the trustee.)

What happens to the lump sum payable under my pension?

 

If your trustee can claim your benefits under an occupational pension scheme or personal pension, this will include any lump sum that is payable as well as the regular payments you are entitled to receive.

What information will the official receiver and/or my trustee need?

 

You have a duty to co-operate with, and to provide all the information required by, the official receiver and your trustee (who will be an insolvency practitioner if he is not the official receiver). The following details will be needed about all the pensions you are receiving, or will be entitled to receive in the future:

• the name of any occupational pension scheme which you and/or your present or former employer have contributed to on your behalf;
  
• any documents given to you about the amount of your benefits under occupational pension scheme(s) and the amount of contributions to those scheme(s), particularly in the last two years;
  
• the policy document for all personal pensions that you have taken out; q if you are receiving a pension, the amount of your regular benefits. Also the date you received any lump sum and the amount of that payment.
  

Should pension contributions be paid after the making of the bankruptcy order?

 

Pension contributions can continue under your existing pension arrangements or under new pension arrangements made after the bankruptcy order. But it may not be in your interest to continue to make payments, particularly to a personal pension, because you may not receive the full benefit of them. You should seek advice from your pension provider or an independent financial adviser before making any payments.

Can anything be done to stop my trustee from claiming my pension?

 

Pension rights and benefits cannot be assigned (transferred). However, your trustee in bankruptcy may consider giving up his interest in the pension, which would mean that the benefits would come to you when they become payable. A relative or friend of yours would have to be willing to provide a suitable sum of money, based upon the current transfer value of your pension fund (excluding protected rights), before your trustee is likely to agree to this option. This is something you should discuss with your trustee so that you have all the relevant facts about your position and that of the person providing the money.

If my trustee has not collected my pension before my discharge from bankruptcy, will it become payable to me?

 

Any part of your pension that is claimed by your trustee will be collected by him when you reach the retirement age under your pension arrangements, even if this is after your discharge from bankruptcy.

 

 

 

I trust the above is of help

 

Regards

 

Andy

[loring]

Hi Andy thanks for your response.The pension I have is A Self Invested Personal Pension (SIPP) so I believe you are saying this could be claimed by the bankruptcy trustee for the creditors. I am due to collect thos pension in 2 years time so my best option may be to go through the long process to see if these debts are enforceable. If they are not I could offer the creditors an amount of money as a goodwill "full and final offer" when I take my lump sum.

 

regards

Loring

[AndyOrch]

Hi Andy thanks for your response.The pension I have is A Self Invested Personal Pension (SIPP) so I believe you are saying this could be claimed by the bankruptcy trustee for the creditors. I am due to collect thos pension in 2 years time so my best option may be to go through the long process to see if these debts are enforceable. If they are not I could offer the creditors an amount of money as a goodwill "full and final offer" when I take my lump sum.

 

regards

Loring

 

Bankruptcy should be avoided at all costs.I summise you understand the process how to challange the DCAs.

If you can update us when you recieve a response from Royal Sun Alliance with regards to the credit searches every month, I would be interested to see their response.

 

Kind Regards

 

Andy

[loring]

Hi Andy

Thanks for your advice.

I will update you when Royal Sun Alliance respond to my letter to them which I posted on Thursday 16th July. I have no business with this company since I transferred my pension away from them about 4 years ago, I am not sure why they need to access my Experian account evert month for the past year, are they doing it for someone else or is it someting they do for marketing.??. Hopefully they will respond to my query and clear the matter.

regards

Loring

[AndyOrch]

Hi Loring,

 

I really have no idea why they are doing the search,hopefully your letter will reveal all.(hence my interest)Was the transfer to the new pension company clean and complete?

You may wish to consider sending a S.A.R to them to check why they are checking your data on a regular basis, if you do not recieve a satisfactory response from them.

 

Regards

 

Andy;)

[loring]

Hi Andy

My pension transfer was clean aand complete and was carried out by a broker.

The only reason I left RSA was that the pension fund had not increased for 4 or 5 years and it appears any profits that were generated by the pension plan were eaten up by RSA annual management fees. There was no bad feelings just a straight transfer for one provider to another.

Regards

Loring

[AndyOrch]

Ok well lets see what their response is,regular checking of ones CRI does not ness have an adverse effect on your score, only minimal and sometimes not at all.However will be interesting to see why they are maintaining this.

If you need any further assistance just post to your thread Loring.

 

Andy

[loring]

Hi Andyorch

Got a letter yesterday from "More Than" a trading name for Royal Sun Alliance who told me that they have never searched my credit file and they waffled on about how Experian told them that my file could be searched by anyone if I had applied for insurance, bank accounts,loans or credit cards.

I phoned them at once and told them I had not applied for any of those things and I can see from my file that they search it on tje 23rd of each month and have been doing so for the past 12 months. The lady keot denying that they searched it, then so admitted they searched it once on 23rd July 2009, but that was only ater I had contacted them by phone, so I told them that previous to today I have never phoned their office.She then stated that from today they would carry out no further searches. I dont think she actually believed anything she was telling me but was just trying to get rid of me. I will check my file in a couple of months to see if it has ceased.

Loring

[AndyOrch]

Well done Loring

 

Well they now know you are on to them and will be very wary from now on.

Ok on to DCAs have you given any thought on how to tackle this thorn in your side?

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

[loring]

Hi Andyorch

I sent off CCa requests and SAr's to each of the creditors. Wescott respond that they cant provide any info. I was advised on another thread (Old Debts where I have posted the letter from Wescott) that I should have sent the requests to Goldfish who are the original creditor. Wescott wrote to me originially and said that they now owned the debt in total and all communications, payments and queries were to be addressed to them. I cannot find an address on the forum or on google for Goldfish. I feel sure the address for them is somewhere on the forum. I would be grateful if you could flag up where it might be.

Capitol One responded to my CCA request by sending me 10 pages of beautifully typed up terms and conditions. They appear to have been typed up in January 2004. The account was opened in the early nineties. I am going to post the letter and some of the pages on a new thread as I am totally unsure what they have sent, although some of the interest rtes they quote look like they come from that era.

Thanks

Loring

[AndyOrch]

Hi Loring

 

Goldfish took out all Morgan Stanley and then Barclays took out Goldfish,so I will check and get back to you.So apart from nice T&Cs did they send your Application/Agreements?

 

Regards

 

Andy

[loring]

Hi Andyorch

There was only the 10 nice pages and the letter states this is the original contract. I was surprised they produced such documents going back for 20 years but many posters on this forum can get anty info for accounts opened in th past 3 or 4 years. When I scan in the info I will post it on annew thread as it may take a while to sort out.

 

Thanks

Loring

[AndyOrch]

No Loring if you can post to this thread and remove any personal details and we can have a look see what you were sent.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[loring]

Hi Andyorch

I have attached the letter and 3 pages of what they sent, I can send the rest if yiu wish but they seem general. Anyway have a look and let me know what you think. Loring

 

 

 

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/5236/img009u.jpg

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/6283/img010a.jpg

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4673/img011e.jpg

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/3964/img012ztd.jpg

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/9473/img013z.jpg

[AndyOrch]

Hi Loring

 

Very nice where is the agreement though? How old is this account?

 

Regards

 

Andy

[loring]

Hi Andyorch

If you read their letter they state "Please find enclosed a copy of your credit agreement ............

The account was opened around 1990 and was defaulted in M ay2000. I have maintained monthly nominal repayments since 2000.

This is al they sent me apart from the other 5 pages of terms. I can send these if you wish.

 

Regards

 

Loring

[AndyOrch]

Right they must have forgot to enclose it then:rolleyes:

Oh well they are in default until they remember, I would advise retain all paperwork in a file ie your request, proof of postage,their response.etc etc.Maintain nominal payments, if you are happy with the situation ,untill they get restless and request you up it,and then you can kindly remind them of their obligations.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[loring]

Hi Andyorch

I was wanting to reclaim charges on this account going back to 2000 when Capital One put around £700 of charges on a debt of £2800 account in 3 months, so 9 years @8% would be a welcome sum for me.

I have sent them the SAR so I guesss just as they had the original contract they will have the statements:rolleyes:

What can I do if they say they dont have the statements for year 2000 as it is too long to keep such records.

 

Loring

[AndyOrch]

Hi Andyorch

I was wanting to reclaim charges on this account going back to 2000 when Capital One put around £700 of charges on a debt of £2800 account in 3 months, so 9 years @8% would be a welcome sum for me.

I have sent them the SAR so I guesss just as they had the original contract they will have the statements:rolleyes:

What can I do if they say they dont have the statements for year 2000 as it is too long to keep such records.They should retain all statements and normally supply 6 years worth, you can go back further but this is the luck of the draw.Have you not retained any yourself?If you have evidence of the £700 in particular, you can just add to as and when Cap 1 supply the rest.It as been known for companies to supply 6 plus more.

 

Loring

 

Regards

 

Andy

[loring]

Hi Andyorch

I have only the final statement I got from Capital One and that was in April 2000 showing I was overdrawn by £580 and they added another £80 for that month. I was in a debt mangement plan at the time and making regular payments but they would not stop adding interest. When I got into financial difficulties I probably only had spent £2700/£2800 of the £3000 limit but in a couple of months they had it up to £3700.

I would suit me to get this money back with interest. I read somewhere that Bank charges can be claimed back to 1995 but I guess yiy would need to have the original statements in your possession to do this. I dont think any bank will want to provide them going back 9 years.

 

Loring

[AndyOrch]

Hi Loring

 

They tend to go back as far as the Limitations Act provides, ie 6 years.You are aware that Cap 1, if you are successful in claiming back charges, will only credit the account in connection,you may have difficuilty in actually recieveing any monies yourself.Just food for thought you may wish to go down the uneforcable route, if they dont play ball with you.

 

Andy

[loring]

Thanks Andyorch

I guess I may well go down the unenforceable route, should I write to Capital One and ask them if they forgot to send the CCA to please send it. I am sure they dont have one,there is no point trying to reclaim Bank Charges if Capital One are going to Keep them. Can they do that as the account has been closed since 2000. Let me know your views.

 

Loring

[AndyOrch]

Hi Loring

 

You state the account is closed,are you still making payments to the debt?If so then yes the above would apply as they will offset any credit to the debt.With regards to unenforcability route you have requested a copy of the CCA,they have supplied everything pertaining to said account.even the kitchen sink except the one thing you requested,its not rocket science to why they have not complied.As stated they are in default after 12+2 days and remain so until they do comply.

So if they try to persue this debt whilst in Default they will be are aware whilst your Consumer Credit Act request remains in default enforcement action is NOT permitted, under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law.Along with other breaches of the OFT guidlines.

Should you write to them and remind them that they inadvertly left ourt the agreement? no you have requested and they are aware of the CCA1974.

Should you stop payments? That is a point only you can decide.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[loring]

Hi Andyorch

After the reply from Wescot about my old Goldfish account, I took your advice and wrote to Barclaycard with a CCA request. Barclaycard have reponded that they have no knowledge of the account. This would probably tie in with what Wescott have told me previously that the account had been assigned to them and all contact was to be with them. They say they do not have any agreement they won't provide me any copy of the assignment from Goldfish. I think when they next contact me I will tell them the account is in dispute as there is no contract and therefore there is nothing to enforce and ask them for the monies I have been misled into paying them over the years.

 

Loring