Levy taken through letter box

[SJAMK]

Good Afternoon

 

I was visited by a Bailiff a few hours ago regarding and outstanding Council Tax bill on a rental property i wowned some years ago. I do not owe the money and was a the Council offices on Thursday and was told the matter was on hold. As it is Saturday the Bailiff could not contqact the council to confirm this and insisted I pay the money or he would levy goods. I told him He could speak to the Council on Monday and confirm what I had said and that I would notbe letting him in.

 

He posted a letter through my door 15 minutes later to say that he levied goods in my hall which he could view through my letter box and had made an additional charge for doing so. He has said he will be returning to collect the charges with a van on Monday. He has said that will cost an extra £240

 

I am not concerned about this at all but my wife is very worried, I cannot speak to my solicitor until money, so can somehere reassure my wife that he does not have the powers he claims.

 

Many thanks

[SJAMK]

Hallowitch

 

Thank you for your reply

 

"SJAMK please start your own thread

and please tell me you have this in writing

 

He posted a letter through my door 15 minutes later to say that he levied goods in my hall which he could view through my letter box and had made an additional charge for doing so. He has said he will be returning to collect the charges with a van on Monday. He has said that will cost an extra £240

 

tell your wife not to worry machine gun talk from a water pistol"

 

The letter does not stae that a van will be calling but it does include the charge for the levy in the total costs

[hallowitch]

He posted a letter through my door 15 minutes later to say that he levied goods in my hall which he could view through my letter box and had made an additional charge for doing so. He has said he will be returning to collect the charges with a van on Monday. He has said that will cost an extra £240

 

tell your wife not to worry

1) the bailiff has an invalid levy (through the letter box)

2) the bailiff has NOT gained peaceful entry to your property

3)even if the bailiff had a valid levy and he wanted to remove the goods on the levy he would have to sent you a letter giving you notice that he was coming and give you a time and date

 

Forcing re-entry

The law upon the rights of bailiffs to force re-entry to premises in order to remove

goods previously seized has recently been clarified. In Khazanchi v Faircharm

Investments; McLeod v Butterwick [1998] 2 All ER 901 the Court of Appeal held that

bailiffs may only force re-entry where they are being deliberately excluded from

premises. It will thus be necessary in most cases for the bailiff to notify the debtor in

advance of the date and time of the visit in order to remove. If the debtor is then

absent from home, or refuses entry, force may be employed

[hallowitch]

another point

He posted a letter through my door 15 minutes later to say that he levied levied goods in my hall which he could view through my letter box and had made an additional charge for doing so

 

is this a walking possession agreement he has left you are the goods he levied written on it

[SJAMK]

Hallowitch

 

Thank you once again. Can I just clarify for future reference, and also as I intend to complain, was he lying when he said a levy taken through a letter box is valid.

 

I do not intend the distress this has caused my wife to pass unchallenged, if he was overstating his powers and will make a formal complaint through my solicitor.

 

Thanks

[SJAMK]

Hallowitch

 

No it is a new invoice staing the amount of Council Tax owed, the cost of his visit and the cost of levying goods

[hallowitch]

I'm 99% sure he was lying

a few thing to take to your solicitor

the council are responsible for all bailiffs actions including there charges

your solicitor should send any correspondence to the council and the bailiffs the reason i am telling you these things is just in case your solicitor is not familiar with

THE COUNCIL TAX (ADMINISTRATION AND

ENFORCEMENT) REGULATIONS 1992 (SI 1992/613 AS

AMENDED BY SI 1993/773, SI 1998/295, SI 2003/2211, SI 2006/3395 AND SI 2007/501

(SCHEDULE 5)

 

the reason a walking possession is made is for the debtor to come to an agreement at the time of the Levey to make an arrangement to pay x amount per week/month if the agreement is broken then the goods are removed and sold

 

if the bailiff has done this levy to simply add charges (and scare the sxxt out of you )

you can work it out for your self

example value of goods on walking possession agreement £120 amount of debt excluding charges £ 400

then the goods on the W P A would not cover the debt and charges therefore it is a blatant attempt to add charges

[hallowitch]

oh dear the bailiff really is pushing his luck

The person levying distress on behalf of an authority shall carry with him the written authorisation of the authority, which he shall show to the debtor if so requested; and he shall hand to the debtor or leave at the premises where the distress is levied a copy of this regulation and Schedule 5 and a memorandum setting out the appropriate amount, and shall hand to the debtor a copy of any close or walking possession agreement entered into.

[hallowitch]

National Standards for Enforcement Agents 2002

 

Professionalism and conduct of the enforcement agent

 

• Enforcement agents should always produce relevant identification on request, such as a badge or ID card, together with a written authorisation to act on behalf of the creditor.
  
• Enforcement agents must act within the law at all times, including all defined legislation and observe all health and safety requirements in carrying out enforcement. They must maintain strict client confidentiality and comply with Data Protection legislation and, where appropriate the Freedom of Information Act.
  
• Enforcement agents, for the purpose of distress or execution shall, without the use of unlawful force, gain access to the goods. The enforcement agent will produce an inventory of the goods seized and leave it with the debtor, or at the premises, with any other documents that are required by regulations or statute.
  
• Enforcement agents must carry out their duties in a professional, calm and dignified manner. They must dress appropriately and act with discretion and fairness.
  
• Enforcement agents must not misrepresent their powers, qualifications, capacities, experience or abilities.
  
• Enforcement agents must not discriminate unfairly on any grounds including those of age, disability, ethnicity, gender, race, religion or sexual orientation.
  
• In circumstances where the enforcement agency requires it, and always where there have been previous acts of, or threats of violence by a debtor, a risk assessment should be undertaken prior to the enforcement agent attending a debtor's premises.
  

May 2002

[scatz1972]

EVERY person within local authority will have knowledge of this case. I suggest you write to both the council and bailiff company by recorded delivery quoting this case (below) In your case the bailiff has clearly made an external inspection without gaining entry into the property and that this cannot therefore be a valid levy . Tell them unless they confirm in writing that the levy has been removed and charges relating to the levy removed then you will have no choice but to make a form 4 complaint to the court that certificated the bailiff.

 

LEGAL CASE: EVANS v SOUTH RIBBLE BOROUGH COUNCIL (1991)

COURT OF APPEAL.

 

 

This case demonstrates clearly that in order to levy distress on goods, seize and impound goods, the bailiff must first have gained entry into the premises.

 

 

Background:

This case was an Appeal by a Community Charge payer against the decision of the Magistrates Court that had dismissed her complaint against the bailiffs that had levied on goods on behalf of her local authority: South Ribble Borough Council.

 

The bailiff had attended at her property for £341 of arrears. Mrs Evans was not at home when the bailiff visited, the bailiff then posted an envelope through her letter box containing a notice of Distress, a draft Walking Possession agreement signed by the bailiff and requiring Mrs Evan’s signature and return plus various other documents that explained the methods of payment, and the amount of the debt.

 

Mrs Evans did not return the Walking Possession; instead she sought legal advice about this method of seizure.

 

 

In his Judgment Mr Justice Simon Brown, reviewed the law and he concluded the following:

• “Once entry is made, very little in the way of seizure and impounding is required…...but there must in the first instance be an entry (into the property), thus: it is my clear conclusion that external inspection and posting through the letterbox is a course of action insufficient to bring about the legal consequences of Distress”
  

And that: the process of distress consists ofthree stages;

· the entryinto the premises,

· the seizureof the goods

· the subsequent securing of the goods (generally called impounding)

Edited July 18, 2009 by scatz1972
edited

[SJAMK]

Thanks for your reply scatz1972, thats very helpful.

[scatz1972]

"He posted a letter through my door 15 minutes later to say that he levied goods in my hall which he could view through my letter box and had made an additional charge for doing so. He has said he will be returning to collect the charges with a van on Monday. He has said that will cost an extra £240"

 

 

Just notice this, do you still have the letter, and does it really say this?

 

If you do I would keep this in a very very safe place and me personally I would go all the way with this and try my very best to get this bailiff's certificate removed.

[SJAMK]

scatz1972

 

I have a new invoice with the levy amount added of £54 plus a note, unsigned, saying he had secured the outstanding debt against a grandfather clock situated in our hall and viewable in daylight through our letterbox.

 

If I am certain that he is not allowed to do this then I intend to take the matter as far as it can be taken.

[SJAMK]

Could someone also please tell me at what point is a bailiff considered to have gained "peaceful" entry. If he places his foot inside your house is that considered entry.

[hallowitch]

you can be 100% certain he is not allowed to do this scatz 1972 is always spot on

just to reassure you this post is by tomtubby

if you read around the site you will find tomtubby takes on bailiffs as a day job and i believe her name can make the toughest of bailiffs shake in there shoes

 

Many bailiffs are looking at ways of increasing their fees and sadly this scenario is very common indeed. However there is clear case law concerning this as follows:

 

EVANS v SOUTH RIBBLE BOROUGH COUNCIL (1991)

 

 

 

Background:

This case was an Appeal by a Community Charge payer against the decision of the Magistrates Court that had dismissed her complaint against the bailiffs that had levied on goods on behalf of her local authority: South Ribble Borough Council.

 

The bailiff had attended at Mrs Evans property for £341 of arrears. Mrs Evans was not at home when the bailiff visited, the bailiff then posted an envelope through her letter box containing a notice of Distress, a draft Walking Possession agreement signed by the bailiff and requiring Mrs Evan’s signature and return plus various other documents that explained the methods of payment, and the amount of the debt.

 

Mrs Evans did not return the Walking Possession; instead she sought legal advice about this method of seizure.

 

 

In his Judgment Mr Justice Simon Brown, reviewed the law and he concluded the following:

• “Once entry is made, very little in the way of seizure and impounding is required…...but there must in the first instance be an entry (into the property), thus: "it is my clear conclusion that external inspection and posting through the letterbox is a course of action insufficient to bring about the legal consequences of Distress”
  

And that: the process of distress consists ofthree stages;

· the entryinto the premises,

· the seizureof the goods

· the subsequent securing of the goods (generally called impounding)

 

 

In your case the bailiff has clearly made an external inspection without gaining entry into the property and that this cannot therefore be a valid levy as provided in the case of Evans v South Ribble and that you should be refunded any fees and charges applied to your account by return. In addition, the remaining nominal items or garden furniture are of worthless value.

[hallowitch]

Could someone also please tell me at what point is a bailiff considered to have gained "peaceful" entry. If he places his foot inside your house is that considered entry.

 

 

no this does not mean he has gained peacefully entry

[jm1235]

if a bailiff has come back to my house and given me a copy of a walking possession agreement which he say was signed by my partner and it turns out that he forged her signature is this illegal or will the charges still stand

can someone help me please

[hallowitch]

if a bailiff has come back to my house and given me a copy of a walking possession agreement which he say was signed by my partner and it turns out that he forged her signature is this illegal or will the charges still stand

can someone help me please

 

of course its illegal but can prove it

[hallowitch]

Bailiffs and Sheriff Officers jm1235 click on that link to start your own thread it will take you to a new page at bottom of page on left new thread

 

welcome to C A G

[jm1235]

how can i prove it

the only thing i have is that all the writing is the same like it been written by the same person and my partner said she didnt sign it

[SJAMK]

Hello Again

 

The Bailiff has called again this morning. He is now claiming I owe £410 which is the amount of the original levy I refused to pay, approx £75 plus fees.

 

There is no money owing to the council. I refused to pay the levy as it was carried out through the letter box and I did not believe it valid. The bailiff never entered my home and I never signed any documents.

 

Can someone please tell me were I can get a definative answer as to whether a levy carried out through a letter box is valid.

 

Many thanks

[SJAMK]

The Bailiff has said he will be returnting at 6 oclock on Monday morning with a van to collect the goods, this will cost an extra £120

[hallowitch]

EVANS v SOUTH RIBBLE BOROUGH COUNCIL (1991)

 

 

 

Background:

This case was an Appeal by a Community Charge payer against the decision of the Magistrates Court that had dismissed her complaint against the bailiffs that had levied on goods on behalf of her local authority: South Ribble Borough Council.

 

The bailiff had attended at Mrs Evans property for £341 of arrears. Mrs Evans was not at home when the bailiff visited, the bailiff then posted an envelope through her letter box containing a notice of Distress, a draft Walking Possession agreement signed by the bailiff and requiring Mrs Evan’s signature and return plus various other documents that explained the methods of payment, and the amount of the debt.

 

Mrs Evans did not return the Walking Possession; instead she sought legal advice about this method of seizure.

 

 

In his Judgment Mr Justice Simon Brown, reviewed the law and he concluded the following:

• “Once entry is made, very little in the way of seizure and impounding is required…...but there must in the first instance be an entry (into the property), thus: "it is my clear conclusion that external inspection and posting through the letterbox is a course of action insufficient to bring about the legal consequences of Distress”
  

And that: the process of distress consists ofthree stages;

· the entryinto the premises,

· the seizureof the goods

· the subsequent securing of the goods (generally called impounding)

 

 

In your case the bailiff has clearly made an external inspection without gaining entry into the property and that this cannot therefore be a valid levy as provided in the case of Evans v South Ribble and that you should be refunded any fees and charges applied to your account by return. In addition, the remaining nominal items or garden furniture are of worthless value.

[SJAMK]

Hallowitch

 

Thanks for posting than agian. The problem I have is that I am getting conflicting advice, and my wife is getting fed up with the bailiff continuing to pursue us for his fee.

 

The bailiff insists that this ruling has now been superceeded. He has however not been able to provided any details of the relevent ruling.

 

I have asked on another board and been told a bailiff is allowed to charge for a levy taken through a letter box (not a window) and then posted. He can include any items in clear view through the letter box

[hallowitch]

file a form 4 complaint and let the judge decide quote the above on your form 4 send it to the bailiff and the council give them 14 days to inform you by letter that the charges have been removed if they don't send the form 4 to the court