HSBC not playing fair

[guzzleguts]

Hi all

 

Can anyone help, HSBC have paid off a loan out of my current account without my permission. The loan had been defaulted ( invalid DN has been served).

 

Now my current account which i do not use but was not overdrawn is now nearly 9 grand overdrawn.

 

This can not be right they must create another contract, sorry ranting on anger at the min.

 

 

Any help would be great.

 

GG

[Azuma]

dude, this reminds me sooo much of a similar case my mrs had with Lloyds, she had a current account with them and a savings account, also a loan. she missed a payment on the loan which was direct debit from her current account, the money was not in her current account so they took it from her savings account, the sick thing is that the money that was in her savings account was transferred there by our sons maternity grant, which made me sick how immoral and cut throat they can be when it comes to money.

 

anyways, back to your problem, you'll need to look at the T's and C's of the loan agreement, Lloyds said that in the T's and C's it states that if you default on any payments you agree for them to transfer funds from any other account you hold with them. although when i looked closely the actual application form clearly stated "we will take payments by direct debit from the account stated on this application" which clearly contradicted the T's and C's - sufficed to say we are still in harsh talks with them about this, it's totally wrong. all i can suggest is that you look at your T's and C's and perhaps get in touch with CAB or someone from the industry regulators...

 

apologies for ranting, and not really giving a clear indication of the way forward, but that's all i can suggest at this time, find out if what they did is lawful and then take it from there.

 

hope it works out for you GG!

[guzzleguts]

Thanks Azuma

 

They are despicable, i will check the T&C's but if they state they will take DD out of this account doesn't mean they can pay the total loan off in one go, therefore leaving you thousands of pounds overdrawn, incurring charges without your permission can they?

 

Thanks for the reply

 

GG

[Azuma]

no you're right mate, i'm pretty sure defaulting on a payment or even two payments shouldn't entitle them to pay the whole debt off, i'm confident they would have to call you or send you a letter to make you aware of this fact also. check the T's and C's and take this as high as possible with them, i think you'll find if you took this to small claims court they would be crucified mate. i'm sure there are other people on here alot more knowledgeable than me about these things, but that's my advice buddy. Anyone else have any ideas on this one?

[diddydicky]

I had the same probs with Nationwide- my fault forgot to move the funds but luckily only a few hundred

 

Right fist we need to see the DN can u post it up

 

 

was it a regulated loan

did they send you a termination notice

 

when was the remedy date on the DN

 

what were the arrears on the DN

 

did they take the money from your account prior to the remedy date on the DN

 

how much did they take (was it the full balance)

 

did the amount they take ITSELF take you into overdraft

 

basically, until you had failed to comply with the DN they could only take what arrears were owed

 

if they took the whole balance when the DN was defective and therefore any termination was unlawful then the removal of anything other than the arrears at the time of unlawful termination would also be unlawful

 

that said the deed is done so it looks like you will be fighting from the position of having to sue them for damages (the consequential losses of which may be substantial if you have a sound case)

[guzzleguts]

Hi dd

 

I can post the Dn up it doesn't allow 14 days, it was a regulated loan, they haven't sent a termination notice but have sent a Demand for full payment( this has been discussed by yourself and ignm and others already on tale of a dodgy DN), no they didnt take the money prior to the remedy date on the dn, yes it was the full balance, i didnt have an overdraft on the account.

 

The DN allows 10 days without service.

 

Thanks for posting dd

 

GG

[diddydicky]

Hi dd

 

I can post the Dn up it doesn't allow 14 days, it was a regulated loan, they haven't sent a termination notice but have sent a Demand for full payment( this has been discussed by yourself and ignm and others already on tale of a dodgy DN), no they didnt take the money prior to the remedy date on the dn, yes it was the full balance, i didnt have an overdraft on the account.

 

The DN allows 10 days without service.

 

Thanks for posting dd

 

GG

t

thanks just one point to claify

 

when they took the full balance out of your account did that one transaction put it overdrawn?

 

 

on the face of if you have an unlawful termination on the back of a defective DN and a subsequent unlawful removal of funds from your account being the difference between the arrears owing at the time of unlawful termination and the amount actually taken

 

 

personally my first tack would be to put my case to the CEO of the bank and point out that unless there is a immediate refund to your account of the misappropriated funds -plus any losses cause by that action , you WILL be commencing legal proceedings

 

anyone else got a view?

[guzzleguts]

Yes there were arrears on the DN also and i have worked out there are charges an fees of some sort. If you want to see the DN i would happy to PM you with it, i know its a little paranoid but the amount of guests that have been watching this thread since i started it is scary.

 

GG

[Azuma]

i think that's sound advice DD, that is IF the CEO reads it and not one of his muppets

[guzzleguts]

Yes that one transaction put it overdrawn.

 

But i was waiting for them to instigate proceedings against me on the back of that DN. Where does that leave me now? any thoughts.

 

GG

[diddydicky]

Yes that one transaction put it overdrawn.

 

But i was waiting for them to instigate proceedings against me on the back of that DN. Where does that leave me now? any thoughts.

 

GG

 

i/m not an expert on banking law but believe that they cannot use funds that you do not have

 

not only but also

 

encouraging you to take on further borrowing to pay existing debts immediately springs to mind

 

I wouldnt be paranoid about posting the DN

 

whats done is done whether they see it or not

[diddydicky]

Yes that one transaction put it overdrawn.

 

But i was waiting for them to instigate proceedings against me on the back of that DN. Where does that leave me now? any thoughts.

 

GG

 

i think yu need to start constructing a letter then post it up for other more experience caggers to have a butchers and to give further advice as this one is a little bit out of the norm and i guess there will be some intersting legal points raised

[diddydicky]

i.m going to alert the site team on this one as i think you need some more experienced input

[guzzleguts]

Thanks dd

 

Will post it this evening, it only states on the agreement that they can use any credit balance from another account you hold with HSBC to reduce or repay any sums you fail to pay under this agreement. (it goes on) We will only do this after giving you reasonable opportunity to rectify the situation. We will not tell you before we exercise our right. We will tell you soon as we can afterwards.

 

 

So i might yet get a termination notice.

 

GG

[Azuma]

it still seems a little dodgy to me mate, i'm sure some of the experts on here will know how to handle this, just hoping it all works out for you buddy, fingers crossed.

[guzzleguts]

Thanks Azuma

[esmerobbo]

Do you think it could be their way of dodging, a dodgey CCA as if the money has been repaid to the loan the loan is settled so you would,nt then challenge the CCA, and as you dont need a CCA for an overdraft easier for them to enforce.

 

Just a thought.

[diddydicky]

Thanks dd

 

Will post it this evening, it only states on the agreement that they can use any credit balance from another account you hold with HSBC to reduce or repay any sums you fail to pay under this agreement. (it goes on) We will only do this after giving you reasonable opportunity to rectify the situation. We will not tell you before we exercise our right. We will tell you soon as we can afterwards.

 

 

So i might yet get a termination notice.

 

GG

 

the removal of your funds to repay the full balance is evidence enough of termination

 

i have alerted surfaceagentx20 to your thread, if he gets time to look in on it you will find is advice invaluable

[guzzleguts]

Hi es

 

From what i have read on this subject, if they consolidate loans credit card debt into an overdraft on a current account then the original agreements become void, therefore as you haven't signed any new agreement the debt becomes unenforceable under 127(3) of the CCA. (i think, or i may of read too many threads today:))

 

GG

[guzzleguts]

Thanks dd

 

x20 thats great he has been missed on here

 

GG

[diddydicky]

Hi es

 

From what i have read on this subject, if they consolidate loans credit card debt into an overdraft on a current account then the original agreements become void, therefore as you haven't signed any new agreement the debt becomes unenforceable under 127(3) of the CCA. (i think, or i may of read too many threads today:))

 

GG

 

yes, as it doesnt affect my situation i havent really studied those thread s but i think in this situation it does seem to have been less of an agreed consolidation loan, more a raid on your current account

Edited July 16, 2009 by diddydicky

[guzzleguts]

That being the point i had no part in this agreement.

 

I do appreciate your time on this dd

 

Thanks

 

GG

[diddydicky]

thats ok but i need to get some legally sound advice for you as well as common sense advice which on it own might not be enough in your circumstances

[guzzleguts]

Agreed, i feel like ive been robbed

 

GG

[underdog13]

Just wanted to add my sympathies GG - I'm in a similar position with my bank.