can someone check my Egg Loan CCA

[seanj70]

after a request for my CCA from Egg (via Cap Quest collection agency) i received the following.

 

there are no detailed clauses as i've seen on some of the Egg Credit Card agreements posted.

 

any help / advise would be greatly apreciated.

 

http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv156/sean23uk/egg2a.jpg

 

http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv156/sean23uk/egg1a.jpg

[alisindebt]

after a request for my CCA from Egg (via Cap Quest collection agency) i received the following.

 

there are no detailed clauses as i've seen on some of the Egg Credit Card agreements posted.

 

any help / advise would be greatly apreciated.

 

http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv156/sean23uk/egg2a.jpg

 

http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv156/sean23uk/egg1a.jpg

It is very similar to one that I received, same route, via CapQuest and Egg.

 

There were no prescribed terms and conditions in the body of the two pages, no additional documentation. Additionally, there was no cooling off period and no mention of the total credit to be paid.

 

I wrote back with a letter saying that the CCA was not a true copy of the original and that it did not contain the required information.

 

Rather than challenge me, capQuest actually wrote to me and said that they would contact Egg again for a true copy i.e. they admitted that what they sent me was not correct.

 

Of course, Egg never had a proper original, their agreements t tht time 2002/2003 were mostly incorrectly written.

 

Once a CCA is in dispute, they are not supposed to ask for any payments but I had 10 emails i one day from CapQuest requesting payments.

 

Therefore, not only do they have an unenforceable agreement but they have acted unlawfully in asking for money.

 

My suggestion is that you write using the same template as me, then don't contact them again, just let them keep ending demands for money and drop themselves right in it. They are a bunch of fools who just operate by intimidation and bullying, without any regard to the law. Give them enough rope and they will hang themselves.

 

This is the template:

 

Account In Dispute

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: my request under s78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me dated **DATE**, the contents of which are noted. However, the reply received by me does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter, dated **DATE**. Upon receipt of the original request the specified account legally entered into disputed status.

 

My request remains outstanding. The supplied documentation does not constitute a true copy of a credit agreement and that which you sent doesn't even contain all the prescribed terms and is not 'properly executed'. The statements sent do not correspond to the amount stated in your earliest correspondence and therefore they do not satisfy the requirement to supply me with a statement of account.

 

As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

 

You had until **12 days DATE** to provide me with the true copy I requested. After that date you entered into default of my request. Whilst the account is in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agencies (or any third party).

 

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the data subject to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

 

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. Any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office.

 

The time limits, which are laid down in the Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 are clear. You must supply an executed credit agreement within 12 working days of a proper CCA request. If you fail to comply with a legitimate request the account enters a default situation. . You entered into a default on **12 Days DATE**

 

Therefore you have 7 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint, otherwise your conduct will be reported to the Office of Fair Trading, the Financial Ombudsman and Trading Standards. Any investigation undertaken by them may affect your ability to hold a consumer credit license in the future.

 

Take further note that continued telephone calls after the receipt of a request not to call may constitute a criminal offence under Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003.

 

Communicate in writing and ONLY in writing, your telephone calls will NOT be answered.

 

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.

 

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

[beachcomber60]

I have posted up a new thread on behalf of OH, didnt scan it but there are no prescribed terms within the first two pages, no charge for credit & no Total Amount Payable.

 

Not had any replies to my thread, need to dispute with Egg - not yet with a dca.

 

Beachy

[alisindebt]

You are now in dispute with the Egg over the CCA and during this period they cannot ask for payments or charge interest to the account, although i am sure they will do both. Let them do it and keep records. As they will not have a proper CCA anyway, they can never collect the money. The CCA is unenforcable.

 

I suggest that you send this letter, also send by secure messaging:

 

ccount In Dispute

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: my request under s78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me dated **DATE**, the contents of which are noted. However, the reply received by me does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter, dated **DATE**. Upon receipt of the original request the specified account legally entered into disputed status.

 

My request remains outstanding. The supplied documentation does not constitute a true copy of a credit agreement and that which you sent doesn't even contain all the prescribed terms and is not 'properly executed'. The statements sent do not correspond to the amount stated in your earliest correspondence and therefore they do not satisfy the requirement to supply me with a statement of account.

 

As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

 

You had until **12 days DATE** to provide me with the true copy I requested. After that date you entered into default of my request. Whilst the account is in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agencies (or any third party).

 

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the data subject to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

 

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. Any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office.

 

The time limits, which are laid down in the Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 are clear. You must supply an executed credit agreement within 12 working days of a proper CCA request. If you fail to comply with a legitimate request the account enters a default situation. . You entered into a default on **12 Days DATE**

 

Therefore you have 7 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint, otherwise your conduct will be reported to the Office of Fair Trading, the Financial Ombudsman and Trading Standards. Any investigation undertaken by them may affect your ability to hold a consumer credit license in the future.

 

Take further note that continued telephone calls after the receipt of a request not to call may constitute a criminal offence under Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003.

 

Communicate in writing and ONLY in writing, your telephone calls will NOT be answered.

 

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.

 

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

 

I have posted up a new thread on behalf of OH, didnt scan it but there are no prescribed terms within the first two pages, no charge for credit & no Total Amount Payable.

 

Not had any replies to my thread, need to dispute with Egg - not yet with a dca.

 

Beachy

[beachcomber60]

Blimey that was quick!

 

Just had a look at the OP's scanned copies, same as my OH. The OP didnt mention that besides no prescribed terms there is no mention of charge for credit OR Total Amount Payable

 

Oh deep joy !

 

Beachy

[seanj70]

...

There were no prescribed terms and conditions in the body of the two pages, no additional documentation. Additionally, there was no cooling off period and no mention of the total credit to be paid.

...

 

so, although it mentions Terms and Conditions it's wrong cos they weren't supplied to me? and they should be part of what they sent me?

 

also, the total credit to be paid would be the loan ammount plus the interest right?

 

and there should be a mention of cooling off in the supplied docs - what if they subsequently provide the terms and conditions and they generically mention a cooling off period?

 

i'm sure i've never seen a total amount to be paid thou!

 

thanks for your help. even if they do come back eventually, a month or two of dispute and no payments will be very helpful right now

Edited July 20, 2009 by seanj70

[alisindebt]

Hi

 

The T+Cs need usually to be part of the agreement i.e. included in the pages. it is possible to have a separate copy, but this cannot just be a standard booklet or page, it has to be signed by both parties. This is soomething that appears not to have been done by Egg for many CCAs, including two of my own. Nobody on here has ever reported Egg coming up with a separate signed copy of T+Cs, as theey did not do it at that time. They either send just the two sided CCA on its own, or included a standard unsigned copy of T+Cs, which therefore cannot be part of the CCA.

 

Even if a cooling off period is mentioned in the T+Cs and again, I have never seen this reported on here, it is not part of the CCA. The amount of credit should be shown. This would be loan amount, the total repayments and also a separate figure showing the amount of interest on it's own.

[seanj70]

does this template need to highlight why it's in despute (these points you mention - cooling off, no signed terms, etc) or simply send as is?

 

thank you muchly

[alisindebt]

Oh my God! Don't tell them why, other than what's in the template. Keep them in the dark! You only refer to the reasons if it ever goes to court, which I don't think it will do! If you give them too many specifics it will give them time to think of excuses, hahahahahahaha. Treat them mushroomsz, keep them in the dark and shovel, s**t on them

 

does this template need to highlight why it's in despute (these points you mention - cooling off, no signed terms, etc) or simply send as is?

 

thank you muchly

[alisindebt]

Also, I forgot to mention, in my case it went to the CapQuest people first and they did not dispute the unenforceability at all. They actually put in writing that they would try and get a full true copy from Egg. Well, there is no full true copy because in those days, Egg never inlcuded full T+Cs with signatures. It was also nice of CapQuest to put it in writing because they admit that they sent something that was not a tru copy of a compliant CCA.

 

The reason that CapQuest did not dispute my CCA that they KNOW there are huge problems with Egg CCAs from that era.

[joe321]

I have been googling for some information to help me. I took out an egg loan in 2001. Soon afterwards i got into difficulties, so i went on a repayment plan and have been paying religiously every month( never missed a payment). However since the beginning of this year, they keep asking for an increase in payments. Now it's got to a stage where they are demanding and 150% increase in payment or the debt will be sold on.

 

Any help would be appreciated. at my wits end now.!!!

[alisindebt]

I have two Egg loans and a credit card from egg, all from around that time. One oan account was sold to debt collectors, called CapQuest. However, in all three cases, my CCAs were unenforceable and no further payments have been made to any of them. indeed, CapQuest kindly put in writing to me that they did not have a true copy of the original CCA.

 

Send a CCA request letter with1 pound-see the notes on the forum about how to do this. They have to send this info within 12+2 days, otherwise each account goes into dispute. Wehn nin disuppte the account cannot be sold or given to a third party, all interest is frozen.

 

Here is the killer bit for you. Nearly all Egg agreements from that time are very dubious, many, including mine are unenfrorceable.

 

There are then some follow up steps to take, according to what your CCAs look like.

[joe321]

Thanks for your help i will send a request in the post tomorrow.

thanks again

[seanj70]

i did eventually receive a copy of a my CCA but it wasn't 'properly executed' with all the prescribed terms, so i replied stating such and didn't hear a dicky bird until last week (almost a year).

 

the debt has now been purchased by Aktiv Kapital and I have requested a copy of the CCA again from them, but how do i stand now?

 

AK have said (verbally on the phone) that the original agreement doesn't matter any more and they were desperate to get me to pay a token payment on the phone, but I refused and said i was proof of the debt.

 

i've also read this about the OFT recently clariying 'unenforcable debt' and i'm worried about the bit where it says "· pass the individuals information onto a debt collector"

http://www.creditman.co.uk/uk/member...wsviewID=11184

 

how about you alisindebt? did you ever hear anymore?

[alisindebt]

i did eventually receive a copy of a my CCA but it wasn't 'properly executed' with all the prescribed terms, so i replied stating such and didn't hear a dicky bird until last week (almost a year).

 

the debt has now been purchased by Aktiv Kapital and I have requested a copy of the CCA again from them, but how do i stand now?

 

AK have said (verbally on the phone) that the original agreement doesn't matter any more and they were desperate to get me to pay a token payment on the phone, but I refused and said i was proof of the debt.

 

i've also read this about the OFT recently clariying 'unenforcable debt' and i'm worried about the bit where it says "· pass the individuals information onto a debt collector"

http://www.creditman.co.uk/uk/member...wsviewID=11184

 

how about you alisindebt? did you ever hear anymore?

 

Hi again

 

You have disputed the account with Egg for the reasons that gave i.e. unenforceable prescribed terms. Whether or not agree with your reasons, they cannot unilaterally cancel a dispute! You remain of your original view and therefore the account remains in dispute. Under these conditions, they cannot involve a third party debt collector and you should firmly refuse to deal with these Activ people or any other third party or DCA.

 

I still dispute my account with Egg and yet they still attempted on 2 occasions to get DCAs to write. Both times, I sent the DCA a "prior dispute with the OC" letter and they both ran off. You should do the same.

 

If Egg are so sure that they are correct then they should go to court to prove that the CCA is enforceable. I understand there is a test case on this soon, maybe June 4th. Egg wrote such bad CCAs in the days before 2005 or even 2007, that they are in serious trouble now the amount of disputes they have and they will lie and cheat to get cash out of you.

 

This is the template. Just change to your own details and send it registered post, good luck!

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Your ref:

 

 

Thank you for your letter of **DATE**, the contents of which are noted.

I refer to my letter of **DATE** a copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

 

As holders of a Consumer Credit Licence you are obliged to comply with the Office of Fair Trading Guidelines on Debt Collection. I would therefore be obliged if you would provide me with an explanation as to why you are attempting to collect on an alleged debt which was disputed with **BANK ** prior to your first contact with me, and has yet to be resolved.

As per OFT guidelines Section 2.8k "not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt."

 

Since this is considered an unfair practice and contrary to the OFT guidelines, you should consider this letter as a formal complaint, and provide me with a copy of your complaint resolution procedure.

I also require you to confirm that you will now comply with the OFT guidelines, and will not attempt any further collection activity whilst the dispute is unresolved.

 

Should you fail to provide me with the required undertaking within 7 days, I shall report your breach of the OFT guidelines to Trading Standards and the Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

Take notice that I will not discuss this matter on the telephone, and all further communication must be in writing. Any further telephone calls will be perceived as harassment, and dealt with accordingly.

 

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you would prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Send them (the DCA) this template adjusted to your own needs:

[seanj70]

but that OFT ruling states:

 

Crucially the OFT has made it clear that ''Unenforceable'' does not mean that an individuals debt is wiped out. Any outstanding debt is still owed, but there are some consequences for the lenders ability to enforce the debt, but they can:

 

· request payment

 

· issue a default notice

 

· pass details of the default to a credit reference agency (e.g. Equifax, Experian or Callcredit)

 

· pass the individuals information onto a debt collector

 

it's that last bit i'm worried about (passing info to debt collector)

[alisindebt]

They cannot pass the debt to a third party if it is disputed. Look at the law.

[seanj70]

...

Edited November 17, 2010 by seanj70