me v abbey *** WON !!! ***

[etered]

hi,

 

great site and some great result by what i have read, anyway, i started my proceedings way before finding this site, but will be modifying my approach.

 

I have probably been charged over the last 6 years somewhere in the region of 6K worth of charges, i have asked abbey to breakdown and list my charges, only had a complaint pamphlet issued so far, so will start with the DPA.

 

last month alone i was charged 383.00 in DD fees etc etc...

 

will keep you all informed...

[Dessie]

Welcome to the forum. There's lots of advice to be found and lots of people in the same situation (I was charged £800 plus in the last month before my account was frozen).

 

Get yourself another bank account (the Natwest Step is pretty good although no cheque book) and get your salary and DDs moved there. At least then you can get back to having all of your salary available and not eaten up with charges. When Abbey phone and ask why they havent received their money like normal, just tell them the account is in dispute. I didnt even get asked why when I told them that a couple of months ago!

[etered]

Dessie, thanks for the advice.

 

Already started up a new A&L account, in the process of transferring DD's over, will make it complete next month...

[etered]

Ok sent of the DPA today (already sent a letter 4 weeks ago, but not in this format)

 

Seeing as Abbey will not release statements from back to 2000 should i send an estimated claim before waiting the 40 days?

Also , why are people reluctant to go over the 5k mark? surely if they will have divulged their actual costs then the banks are more likely to pay up if a claim is over the 5k limit?

 

cheers

[ali581011]

only heard about claiming back bank charges

[Dessie]

Ok sent of the DPA today (already sent a letter 4 weeks ago, but not in this format)

 

Seeing as Abbey will not release statements from back to 2000 should i send an estimated claim before waiting the 40 days?

Also , why are people reluctant to go over the 5k mark? surely if they will have divulged their actual costs then the banks are more likely to pay up if a claim is over the 5k limit?

 

cheers

 

Its not that people are reluctant to claim over over £5K, its just that £5k is the maximum allowed through the Small Claims System. You can claim for more than that but will have to go through the Fast Track in which, in the unlikely event that you lose, your costs will be higher

[etered]

Its not that people are reluctant to claim over over £5K, its just that £5k is the maximum allowed through the Small Claims System. You can claim for more than that but will have to go through the Fast Track in which, in the unlikely event that you lose, your costs will be higher

 

dessie, i see, what is 'Fast Track' and what are the main differences between a small claims and FT?

 

cheers

[ali581011]

only heard about claiming back bank charges today so rang the abbey and requested my last 12 statements. i do not have the £10 in my a/c to pay for remaining 5 years as it has been passed over to debt management. this was because abbey removed my £850 OD because i couldn't pay charges incurred from going over my agreed limit after a spell in unemployment. this left me approximately £1000 overdrawn. i then started working again and began paying £400 per month into my a/c as advised by abbey (non-negotiable) but would still have to pay a set fee every month for being OD. i then changed jobs for personal reasons to a lower payed job (ironically temping as a cashier in an abbey branch!) and was told they would keep £200 per month (once again non-negotiable) from my wages to start repaying my overdraft but would still continue to charge me for being overdrawn. 2 steps forward 1 step back. would you recommend i open another a/c elsewhere so i can have full access to my own money and send correspondance to the abbey explaining i require the remaining 5 year history and will not be dealing with my abbey a/c again until all disputes of unlawful charges taken are settled? on going into debt management with the abbey i have not been allowed any bank cards or cheque books or DD's and this has had a knock on effect on most aspects of my life falling behind on phone payments and loan payments also. obviously i accept alot of responsibility for these proliferral missed payments but it is very difficult to operate my life with a bank a/c with no beneficial facilities and serves only to swallow any monies paid in. Sorry for my lengthy question but unsure of my rights and find it difficult to read and fully understand all the lengthy texts spread out over these forums. still very grateful for all the information posted, always good to know there are people on the side of the little man! looking forward to any response. ali581011

[etered]

You know what, i have just calculated back 8 months charges and so far (waiting for further statements) we are up to 2091.81. This is gonna be well over the 5k limit...

 

I also received a letter stating that Susan Eden has carefully considered my points but, basically its my fault. should i continue to county court they will cancel my account.

 

I already have another account and have quite a lot of money going in per month circa 8K so that will hit them when i change this..

 

Its amazing how you miss these charges, it wasnt until i had the recent 500 quid applied that i thought about it....

 

anyway, should i hit them for two sub 5k claims or one big one?

 

saw some old statements which showed that the charges used to be only 15 quid per 'misdemeanour'. reckon i will have to estimate but looks as though this year alone will be circa 3k...

[etered]

Karne,

 

Thanks very much for your advice, the temptation to rush this process is very strong, and it angers me that abbey can be so bloody flippant. Anyway, I will take my time, play it by the book and stick by the proven timetable...

 

I think I will make an initial claim of 2004-2006, then a further claim from 2000-2004.

 

this site is fantastic...

[etered]

it seems to me that this is very confusing to people.

 

Can someone with a far better knowledge int his area than me please enlighten us.

 

In my book it is simple

 

> 5000

>15000 multi-track

 

fast track, abbey would have to divulge details od their charges if they were going to contest?

 

the rest is pretty flaky so please advise and add to this thread if you have any info...

 

thanks

[Lula]

thats sounds right to me but I hope someone with more knowledge than me can come and give the definitive

[Glenn UK]

Im not sure strickly speaking that abbey would have to divulge their costs.

 

I believe that you can ask for standard disclosure which is about them having to disclose anything they wish to use in their defence.

 

be pleased to be corrected if this is wrong.

 

It would of course be an absolute defence for them to show how their charges related to their actual costs and if they fail to rely on it then a court might be invited to infer the reasons why they wouldnt reveal it. Especially bearing in mind the number of cases being progressed against them.

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

[barracad]

You would be able to request, under standard disclosure, that the bank show how they calculate their charges and what their actual costs are.

 

If they failed to provide this I don't see how there is any way they could win. If they do provide it then it will prove that the penalties are disproportionate.

[Glenn UK]

thanks barracad

 

I thought it only reffered to things they intended to use in their defence.

 

On the basis of standard disclosure can you basically ask for anything which would help your claim then? Say a statement that the bank in quesiton honestly believed that the charges were lawful from one of the banks senior officals?

 

GLenn

[etered]

right lets say my actual for last 12 months of charges come to £2845, how do i estimate for the previous 5 years, without it being way out? is there a formula that you guys use? I know a few of you estimate for your prelim letter?

 

kind regards and thanks

[etered]

oh and i am going on the fast track on this.....

[etered]

Good.

 

reasonable estimate will be 2845 for each of the 6 years.

 

Thats a scary number. but a judge will see it as reasonable.

 

yes those sort of figures are scary for two reasons, that abbey can take it off me, and i am still solvent !!!

 

but, in 2002 the costs were £15 a time rather than the 30-35 they are now, so i should reduce the first 3 years by 50% in my book, does that sound reasonable...

 

thanks again Karnevil, its great to know there is good advice around...

[etered]

ok quick update....

 

Just checked my account and £900 has been refunded as miscellenous payments, ie about 25 payments between 20 and 35 pounds.

 

This represents only 1/6 of the amount I am claiming , so will deduct of the claim which I shall be filling next week.

 

Is this common practice? I sent my LBA last week...

 

cheers

[Glenn UK]

FWIW this refund, do you know what its for?

 

If abbey havent told you then i would enter the claim for the full value and inform the court you have had a unannounced payment made into your account in the sum of 900.

 

when you know what its for you can inform the courts.

 

It seems to me that a goodwill payment is not necessarily part of a refund of charges.

 

Think of it this way, if they say its a goodwill gesture it could be compensation for all the hassle and upset you have suffered over the unlawful removal of money from your account.

 

If its a partial refund or an attempt to settle then it would be reasonable for them to write to you and say that.

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

[etered]

hey guys

 

thanks for your quick responses.

 

your advice is spot on thanks, will continiue with the claim until such time Abbey explain what these refunds were for.

 

cheers

[ali581011]

i am with abbey's debt management scheme as a result of being slightly over my £850 OD limit then snowballing charges pushing me to over £1100, my OD limit facility was then removed which left me with one hell of a bill to pay. abbey rang me to tell them i have 28 days to clear before it gets passed on to a collection agency, i told them i had heard about new laws passed by OFT and didn't want to deal with my account until i had all the information to hand, i was told they were not acknowledging the new laws yet as they were still on a 'fact finding mission' to see whether heir charges were unlawful or not and until then i had to proceed as normal. i have gone through my last 12 months charges and they total over £600 so don't see why i should pay them money they owe me but i am worried with the collection agency threats. what should i do? please please help!

[Glenn UK]

Re estimating

 

If you are estimating alarge proportion over the past 6 years or more then i would recommend you apply more logic to it than simply using the last years figures and multiplying it.

 

The reason to suggest this is that if you need to show you have been reasonable and its not hard to get a better idea bearing in mind how charges have changed over the period in qeustion.

 

What i did was take all the statements I had, then counted each type of charge, so x bounced DD, y refused SO, and so on.

 

Then i divided each number of charges by the number of statements. This gives you the 'frequency' of each charge type on a per month basis.

 

Then you multiply each charge type by the charge for the given penalty relevant at the time.

 

If you dont have the relevant charges I could probalby fill them in if you choose to go this route.

 

AS much as you dont really want to be under the value of your claim it is not difficult to provide a more systematic estimate.

 

Simply multiplying by the tears worth would be ok in my opinion if it was only a smallish part of your claim.

 

Hope that helps

 

Glenn

 

PS if you have under estimated and find out when you have received the statements you can reserve the right to correct the estimatye or have another claim afterwards.

[etered]

ok, am going to file my moneyclaim tonight, but one thing, Abbey have sent me aletter saying they have refuned me (good will they say!!) some charges £1215 which includes 900 old charges and 315 they were about to charge me!!

 

should I account for this on my moneyclaim? or because it is good will ignore it?

 

thanks

[etered]

How much are they?

 

also, where do you put the spreadsheet on the claim, or dont you do this?

 

cheers