What should i do?? Help!! DCA / APEX / AIC

[orange78]

Hi ,

i am up to my eyeballs in debt - £25,000 on a £14000 salary .i had been managing to keep on top of the minimum payments but last november i recieved a very sparce postcard from AIC asking to give them a call , that was all that was on it , i sent them a cca request in november to which i have not recieved a reply - until today i have received a letter from apex stating

 

barclays partner finance jessops - £5319.96

 

Our client has requested we contact you to arrange payment of the full outstanding balance.

We have made enquiries and sources have shown that you are resident at the address on this letter. Our clients have advised that previous atempts to contact you via other agencies have been unsuccessful and this potentially is your last opportunity to arrange payment before further actions will be considered.

Our staff are fully trained to assist you with you;re current situation and have a range of options to help. If you are unable to pay in full and are experiencing financial difficulty, we strongly reccomend that you call us to discuss repayment of your balance.

to prevent this matter becoming unmanagable please contact our officewithin 10 days from this letter.

 

i think this debt has happened when i moved house i forgot to redirect my mail and when my payments were due to start i did not realise and they never got paid. the original item was £2500 approx - so a LOT of interest has been added.

 

Should i call apex? do you think they will offer me a managable payment solution? do i send another cca since i did not recieve it from aic? i am currently staying with my partner at his parents ( have been for the past year ) and am REALLY concerned that they are going to call the house / visit as if my partners family found out i fear we may have to live elsewhere!

I am also concerned as i will not able to stay at his parents for much longer and will have to pay a lot more in rent/utilities so have less to pay on debt.

i am also worried that they will be able to apply for my earnings? as i do not want my job to find out either.....

I was looking into Trust deed ? or a dmp ? i am so concerned about the immediate future and that they will just turn up on the doorstep or i will recieve a court order by the end of the week ? i do not know what to do??

 

sorry such a long post - i just wanted to make sure i gave as much information as possible

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated !!

 

Thanks

[clemma]

 

Should i call apex? do you think they will offer me a managable payment solution? do i send another cca since i did not recieve it from aic?

 

Nope - if AIC totally ignored the CCA request send this letter to apex:

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Your Reference:

Client reference:

 

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

I must admit that I am rather bemused as to why this account has been passed to you, as it is in dispute with ***DCA*** and has been since ***Date***

 

Not only is this a breach of OFT collection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998

 

 

As ***DCA*** is now in default of my Consumer Credit Act request, Office of Fair Trading Collection Guidelines and s10 Data Protection Act request, I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE.

 

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default, enforcement action is NOT permitted; under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law. Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to ***DCA*** for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as ***DCA*** cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

 

If ***DCA***chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

Yours faithfully

Print do not sign your name

 

 

i am currently staying with my partner at his parents ( have been for the past year ) and am REALLY concerned that they are going to call the house / visit as if my partners family found out i fear we may have to live elsewhere!

 

They can not just come round to your house. There is also a letter you can send to them about this - if you need it, I'll post it up for you.

 

I am also concerned as i will not able to stay at his parents for much longer and will have to pay a lot more in rent/utilities so have less to pay on debt.

i am also worried that they will be able to apply for my earnings? as i do not want my job to find out either.....

 

When it comes to a DCA or even the original creditor, they can not demand you pay more than you can afford - only a court can do this. You haven't given much information about your debts, but it would be useful so then we know which routes you have to take to try and reduce any payments you make.

 

Also, they can not apply for an attachment of earnings until there is a CCJ in place - even then, you have to default on any payments that the judge orders you pay. This is so far down the line, and not worth worrying about.

 

I was looking into Trust deed ? or a dmp ? i am so concerned about the immediate future and that they will just turn up on the doorstep or i will recieve a court order by the end of the week ? i do not know what to do??

 

For now, just try and explain what these debts are for, and we will take it from there. They are very unlikely to turn up at your doorstep, and IF you did receive a court order in the immediate future, you will get all the help you need on CAG.

 

Here is the no visit letter anyway:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Account Ref xxxx

 

Please be advised that I will only communicate with you in writing.

 

Should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you.

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so, then you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

 

Yours faithfully

 

ALWAYS PRINT do not sign your name, and always send them recorded delivery

[orange78]

Thank you so much for the speedy reply ....... my debts are as follows

 

£10,000 lloyds tsb c/c paying £200 monthly - minimum repayment

 

£5000 lloyds overdraft - is this included as debt? £70 overdraft fee monthly

 

£4000 marks spencers c/c £70 monthly

 

£5200 jessops credit / now apex not paid as of yet

 

as i briefly mentioned before i am able to make my repayments for my others and have not missed payments - it is just this one that has messed everything up!

 

Thank you for the template letter - stupid question - the template saying" english common law " i live in scotland - does that make a difference?

 

One more thing - does asking for this anger dca's so they become less lenient if they can produce a cca and you have to cough up? i am concerned they will say " heres the cca

now give us £5000 now!!" which i no way can do so i guess it would go to court ?

 

I have been looking at payplan.com and scottishdebtline.co.uk they seem quite helpful . anyone have any experience with them?

[clemma]

Didn't realise you were in Scotland - use this letter instead:

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Account Ref xxxx

 

Please be advised that I will only communicate with you in writing.

 

Should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you.

 

There is only an implied license under Scots Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc. Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives, to visit me at my property and if you attempt to send such a collector to my home, you will also be reported for harassment and I shall seek damages for a delict of trespass.

 

You would also be liable for conspiring in a delict of trespass by acting in defiance of my instructions and sending someone to visit me nevertheless.

 

Should it be necessary, I will obtain an interdict from the Court to prevent you carrying out your threat.

 

It is your right to request a copy of your CCA at anytime - they cannot hold it against you! You will probably get some bog-standard reply about them going back to the original creditor.....however, AIC are in default of your original request, so send APEX the letter I have posted above.

 

DCA's regularly demand payments in full - they have no right to do so. YOU tell them what YOU can afford to pay. If the agreement they send is enforceable, tell them how much you can afford, then pay it. DCA's don't take people to court (well, the majority don't anyway).....

 

As for payplan - I have not used them myself, but others have and will be able to advise better.

[orange78]

Thanks for all the useful info, i am a little unsure about which dca i put in wher in the template - if i paste the letter that i am going to send here can someone please make sure its right!? thanks!

 

Also it seems apex are very keen on returning letters advising debtor to go to OC for cca .. is there any paragraph or something i can add to this letter to prempt this? i would like to have as little correspondance with them as possible.

 

Also i have clearly stated in this letter that i wish to recive correspondance in writing only - if they call after they have recived the letter what should i say? i have never spoken to a dca before!

 

Also my in original post the first line that they wrote in the letter i typed was

" Our client has requested we contact you to arrange payment of the full outstanding balance. "

 

So who owns this debt? apex ? aic? or is it back with barclays/jessops? so confused.... : (

 

The postal order do i just ask for one at the po and write apex address on it ? what does uncrossed mean? should i send it special delivery?

 

 

many Thanks sorry about all the questions

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Your Reference: is this my original aic reference?

Client reference: apex reference

 

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

I must admit that I am rather bemused as to why this account has been passed to you, as it is in dispute with AIC and has been since ***Date***

 

Not only is this a breach of OFT collection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998

 

 

As AIC is now in default of my Consumer Credit Act request, Office of Fair Trading Collection Guidelines and s10 Data Protection Act request, I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE.

 

 

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default, enforcement action is NOT permitted; under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law. Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to AIC for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as APEX cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

 

If APEX chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

 

Please be advised that I will only communicate with you in writing.

 

Should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you.

 

There is only an implied license under Scots Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc. Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives, to visit me at my property and if you attempt to send such a collector to my home, you will also be reported for harassment and I shall seek damages for a delict of trespass.

 

You would also be liable for conspiring in a delict of trespass by acting in defiance of my instructions and sending someone to visit me nevertheless.

 

Should it be necessary, I will obtain an interdict from the Court to prevent you carrying out your threat.

 

I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only.

 

Any phone calls will be recorded.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

Yours faithfully

Print do not sign your name

[clemma]

The letter looks good to me "Your" reference will be APEX and the other - well, who knows. They have not make it clear who the client is, so you can't really put anything there.

 

As for APEX asking you to go back to the OC for the CCA, there is a letter you can send them reminding them of their duties under the CCA1974 BUT you're not CCA'ing APEX anyway. They should send this back to AIC for resolution.

 

If they do call you, refuse to answer security questions and keep saying "in writing only". Say nothing else, no matter how much they try and get you into conversation.

 

Actually, the more I am reading this - have APEX not mentioned AT ALL what this debt purports to? If not, then I would not even bother with the above letter and just send them the prove it letter. After all, how are you supposed to know who the client is if they are not telling you. I know you can guess - but you can not know for sure.

 

The prove it letter is:

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Reference no: 00000000000

 

You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

 

I/we would point out that I/we have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (insert company name).

 

I am/we are familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

I/we would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

 

Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

 

I/we would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my/our liability for the debt in question.

 

I/we await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions.

 

I/we look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully,

[orange78]

Thank you soo much for your help guidance ..... i bought the camera back on the 01/04/2006 , i have read in various posts that something happened after the 06th April 2007 regarding the cca agreement law ? i really do not understand ? can anyone advise what changed? as i was before this date ( just!) what difference does this make for me?

 

Also when you sign a agreement they give you a copy do they not? does that mean if you had one you would be able to see if it was enforcable?

 

Thanks

[clemma]

Anything post 2007 is likely to be enforceable or can be enforced in court. Pre to this, there is less chance of them being correct.

 

The copy you have makes no difference - it's what they have that matters. You need not show them what YOU have. If you do have one though, and you want it checked, it will do no harm to post it up minus your personal details.

[orange78]

Hey .... well i sent a letter like the one a few posts up , stating that this account was in dispute with aic still. i sent it on 16/07/09 by special delivery 4 days before my 20th july deadline they gave me to contact them .

Today i have recieved a letter from them stating :

 

 

Home visit appointment - (in a big box at top of letter)

 

re barclays partner finance - jessops Xxxxxxxxxxxxx

debt outstanding £5,319.96

 

 

We wrote to you recently after out investiagtions proved that you are a resident at the above address . we note you have failed to make contact.Our client has now formally requested that we commence proceedings to recover the outstanding debt.

 

You are now at risk of your account being passed to an external doorstep agency who will arrange a visit to your property. To avoid a home visit at a time that may not be convenient to you , you must call our office without delay . There is an opportunity for you to make payment to avoid an agent attending your premises.

 

to arrange a more suitable time or to make a payment , it is imperative that you call one of our agents on xxxxxxxxxx

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

 

 

 

What should i do now?? i really cannot take this .... if you see my previous posts in this thread i live with my boyfriends parents and the thought of them turning up at my doorstep makes me feel ill........

 

Why are they not responding to the letter i sent? is what they are doing wrong? any suggestions would be great ....... i feel maybe i should get together as much money as i can to offer full and flnal ....... though i still dont understand the interest in a year has doubled!!

 

Also do they mean they will turn up at my door or another company?

[clemma]

They are highly unlikely to send anyone to your door. Did you send the letter about no visits to them?

 

As for them ignoring you - this is what they do. You are creating a paper trail though which will stand you in good stead should this go any further (doubtful though). What they have sent is a typical "threat-o-gram" - they know they haven't a leg to stand on. I would ignore for now.

[orange78]

Hi , i really appreciate the quick reply , yes i did add at the bottom about not coming to the house......

 

I posted it to the address at the bottom of the letter .... is that the right address?

 

If i have not been sent my cca by anybody , is it likely they will start court proceedings , ccj etc?

 

If they do come to my door what is the best thing to say? my future mother in law i imagine will be within earshot and i am extremely anxious that they will make a scene and i just want to close the door on them - but fear they will just keep ringing the doorbell!

[orange78]

OH i forgot - should i request a cca from them?

[clemma]

You have already sent a CCA request to AIC so you have no need to send another. If (and it's a big IF) they come to your door, have a copy of the no visits letter, open the door, give it to them, then close the door again. If they try again, open the door and tell them (in hushed tones) that you will call the police if they do not leave the property. Like I say, these are just threats in order to intimidate you into paying - don't let them win!!

 

The chances of them taking you to court are slim - even if they attempted to, the lack off a CCA would prevent them from gaining anything from a judge. This is so far off in the future though, that I would not worry about it yet.

 

You can always send the following to APEX (they are buggers to get rid of):

 

Dear Sirs

 

Please find enclosed a copy of a letter sent to you on (date) and signed for, by AIC, on (date). This is my final correspondance on this matter.

 

If you do not understand any of the contents, may I suggest you seek legal advice.

 

Yours

 

However, I don't really think it is worth the cost of a stamp - but if it helps to ease your mind a little, then fire it off to them.

[orange78]

i will probably not send one then..... i was thinking this might sound silly... but i was wondering about collecting proof if they ever did come round to the door and the only thing i could think of would be opening the door witth a camcorder in hand?? how do you think they would react? pi**** off perhaps

: ) anyone else done this?

[clemma]

Go for it!! Many people on CAG would love to catch a DCA's unaware with a camcorder. I'm sure they will shuffle off quietly when they realise you intend recording the whole thing :D

[orange78]

Hey , my other half has persuaded me to write another letter to ease his mind a little - he is more worried about me than a knock on the door!

 

so if i put down what was suggested :

 

Dear Sirs

 

Please find enclosed a copy of a letter sent to you on (date) and signed for, by Apex, on (date). This is my final correspondance on this matter.

 

If you do not understand any of the contents, may I suggest you seek legal advice.

 

Yours

 

 

 

Should i add anything along the lines of

 

" if i continue to receive any more demands for payment without a valid consumer credit agreement being produced then my next step will be making a formal complaint "

 

??? i get scared adding anything in case i open myself up too anything......

 

if they do continue without a cca , can i make a complaint to them ? is that the next step ?

 

Thanks

[clemma]

You could put that part in before the "final correspondance" part. Also mention that you will make complaints to the relevant authorities as well.

[orange78]

Now i am having second thoughts and just thinking about full and final settlement...... i would love to fight this but it is difficult to stand my ground when i am staying at someones house - i do not think i can put anyone else through it ......

 

How likely is it do you think that they would accept £ 1000 , they say £5300 is outstanding but it only cost £2500 approx , and was interest free for a year , so between april 08 and november08 ( when i cca'd aic ) somehow the interest has doubled?

 

I would be able to borrow £1000 if they accepted it m it may be the best option for me .... anyone think they would take the bait? or would they just be greedy for more?!!!

[clemma]

If you really want to do a full and final, then I would start lower than what you can afford - that way, when you agree to £1000 (if they will accept that), they will think they have won.

 

However, make sure you get everything in writing from them FIRST before you make any payments.

[orange78]

Hello all,

 

maybe i should have started a fresh thread but since the posts above show my history thought it mught be best to follow on from this .

 

Long story short :

 

Bought a camera on BNPL in 2006 , moved house and forgot to advise them of address and missed payments until i recivied a letter from aic and then asked them for a cca , then did not hear until Apex a year later who then I replied asking for cca - no response ....

 

Since my last post above in July 2009 i have not heard a peep from Apex or AIC.......until a few days ago when i heard from a new company : (

 

I received a letter from Capquest debt recovery stating this amongst other things :

 

" Balance due £5364.96 and that my account has been sold to them and the matter will not go away and that if a satisfactory payment programme is not established or i fail to comply with their request to contact this firm they will not hesitate to utilise the legal system to its full extent. If i am not in a position to settle this account in full i will need to contact them to discuss a suitable solution to this matter by the 5th January - NO CONTACT WILL MEAN FURTHER ACTION "

 

 

I also recieved a letter from Barclays advising that on the 12th december my account was sold to capquest . Which is odd because i never recieved a letter before advising debt had been to sold to different comapnies?

 

The letters I got a few days ago were to my old address as i had been living with my partners parents for 3 years until last month , so they have sent it to my old address , which all the other debt companies had been sending to .

 

 

I have still not been sent any CCA from any of these companies

 

Not too sure what to do ?? Have any rules / laws changed in past couple of years that i should know about that might affect me? Any advice on what to do ?? I hate this !! As soon i start to thing they have forgotten i get these letters - my partner gave me this letter ( that he had picked up from his mums house ) on Christmas morning !

 

Thanks in advance

[mathmagician]

Hi, when did you last acknowledge the alleged debt (through payments or otherwise).

[orange78]

Hi, when did you last acknowledge the alleged debt (through payments or otherwise).

 

 

Hi,

 

My last correspondance with them was when I sent them Apex a letter stating that this account was in dispute with aic stilland that was on in July 2009

 

 

Thanks

[mathmagician]

Well that wouldn't restart the clock.

When was the last payment to the alleged debt?

[orange78]

Well that wouldn't restart the clock.

When was the last payment to the alleged debt?

 

 

 

 

I never actually made a payment , it was on buy now pay later , I had moved house in 2007 when the payments were due to start a year after first purchased and forgot to update the place i originally bought the camera with my new address at the time and a year later got the first request from aic debt company for over £5000 .

[mathmagician]

Right, more knowledgeable people than me will be along shortly, because I am not sure here.

Item bought in 2006

First payment due 2007 (which month?) but never made.

 

This means no payments for nearly 5 years. We're getting near being barred with you being in Scotland. I am not sure how this works with no payments having ever been made...