DLR Penalty Fare

[Jphene]

Hi there,

 

I just got fined £25 because I was rushing for the train and clearly as I was rushing I didnt stop to check if the light went green on the oyster card reader. Obviously it didnt as I have now been fined, literally as I just got on the train at cutty sark the inspector was there and asked for my ticket. I produced my oyster card (Which had enough money on it for the journey) and he said it had not been touched in and I would be fined. I mean fair enough hes just doing his job but I was in a rush as I needed to get back to work. However, I'm hoping that unfortunately for him, he has written down the completely wrong name than what I gave him, he has put my surname as my first name and my middle name as my last name ...although the address is right. When they send a letter through to me, can I simply say to them that the specified name does not and never has lived at this address, therefore he must have written down the wrong address for the ticket? I mean the name isnt even close to being right. Also even though I clearly told him why my oyster hadnt been activated (Because I was in a rush and didnt stop the check the reader) he has put in the passengers statement "Forgot to touch in" which clearly isn't at all what I said.

 

Can I get away with this due to the name being completely wrong?

 

Also whats the deal with this becomming a "criminal record" as I've read on other posts people are getting criminal records for penalty fares???

 

If that is the case then what a joke. People getting criminal records for forgetting to touch their oyster on a reader? LOL...

 

Also may I add that even if I had touched my oyster on the reader, I would not have even been charged for the journey as it is within the journey to and from home that I make before and after work anyway.

 

Some advice on this please.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

J

[SRPO]

Deleted.

Edited September 23, 2009 by SRPO

[Old-CodJA]

Hi there,

 

However, I'm hoping that unfortunately for him, he has written down the completely wrong name than what I gave him, he has put my surname as my first name and my middle name as my last name ...although the address is right. When they send a letter through to me, can I simply say to them that the specified name does not and never has lived at this address, therefore he must have written down the wrong address for the ticket? I mean the name isnt even close to being right. Also even though I clearly told him why my oyster hadnt been activated (Because I was in a rush and didnt stop the check the reader) he has put in the passengers statement "Forgot to touch in" which clearly isn't at all what I said.

 

Can I get away with this due to the name being completely wrong?

 

Also may I add that even if I had touched my oyster on the reader, I would not have even been charged for the journey as it is within the journey to and from home that I make before and after work anyway.

 

J

 

I've one or two questions first,

 

1. Are you the registered occupier at the address that you gave?

 

Your last bit confuses me a little. You say that you would not have been charged for the journey 'because the journey you made is within the journey you make to and from home'

 

2. Are you saying that you hold a season ticket on your Oyster as well as pre-pay?

 

3. Did the inspector record your Oyster number on the penalty notice?

[Jphene]

I've one or two questions first,

 

1. Are you the registered occupier at the address that you gave?

 

Your last bit confuses me a little. You say that you would not have been charged for the journey 'because the journey you made is within the journey you make to and from home'

 

2. Are you saying that you hold a season ticket on your Oyster as well as pre-pay?

 

3. Did the inspector record your Oyster number on the penalty notice?

 

No I'm not the registered occupier at the address. No I dont hold a season ticket, I am pay as you go, but because my journey on the dlr is basically going back on the journey I have already done in terms of zones when I do travel that journey and I touch it on the oyster read before and after my dlr journey it takes off no credit as ive already paid it for the previous journey if you understand what I mean, so dont think my attitude is I would have been happy enough not to pay because thats not the case at all. But at the end of the day I have still got this fine because of the inspector being on a power struggle, but he has written down the completely wrong name anyway, So I'm just hoping due to that I can send them the letter back when they send it saying the occupier doesnt live here and they can check it and that will be confirmed...is that right?

 

Thanks

[SRPO]

Deleted.

Edited September 23, 2009 by SRPO

[Old-CodJA]

No I'm not the registered occupier at the address. No I dont hold a season ticket, I am pay as you go, but because my journey on the dlr is basically going back on the journey I have already done in terms of zones when I do travel that journey and I touch it on the oyster read before and after my dlr journey it takes off no credit as ive already paid it for the previous journey if you understand what I mean, so dont think my attitude is I would have been happy enough not to pay because thats not the case at all. But at the end of the day I have still got this fine because of the inspector being on a power struggle, but he has written down the completely wrong name anyway, So I'm just hoping due to that I can send them the letter back when they send it saying the occupier doesnt live here and they can check it and that will be confirmed...is that right?

 

Thanks

 

Sorry if I'm being a bit thick here, but I still don't follow your explanation relating to 'going back' on the journey that you are making.

 

Do you travel for work every day?

 

If you touch-in and out properly on each and every journey, the minimum credit due for your fares is deducted from your Oyster card balance.

 

If on the other hand, you do as your message seems to suggest, touch in at say Cutty Sark and travel to Canary Wharf or wherever, but don't touch out and then travel back, but don't touch in and only touch-out when you get back to the originating station at the end of your second journey, the Oyster system will record this.

 

I'm sorry if I've misunderstood, but your journey explanation isn't at all clear to me.

 

So far as the notice is concerned, it's up to you to pay or appeal within the 21 days shown on the notice and I've already given a full explanation of the procedure on another DLR Penalty thread, but SRPO is right, it will not just go away. If after the time allowed it remains unpaid, it will be passed to the DLR's prosecutors.

 

If you gave your names correctly and they have been written down in the wrong order, that is not going to stop the inspector from making out a statement on the facts that were recorded and it seems to me that reading your post again, you can be identified quite easily from what you have given.

Edited July 14, 2009 by Old-CodJA

[andydd]

Just pay the penalty fare..its only £25, this would be different if you were going to be prosocuted for fare evasion and might be worth fighting.

 

Incidently I dont understand your journey explantion either.

 

Andy

[Jphene]

Sorry if I'm being a bit thick here, but I still don't follow your explanation relating to 'going back' on the journey that you are making.

 

Do you travel for work every day?

 

If you touch-in and out properly on each and every journey, the minimum credit due for your fares is deducted from your Oyster card balance.

 

If on the other hand, you do as your message seems to suggest, touch in at say Cutty Sark and travel to Canary Wharf or wherever, but don't touch out and then travel back, but don't touch in and only touch-out when you get back to the originating station at the end of your second journey, the Oyster system will record this.

 

I'm sorry if I've misunderstood, but your journey explanation isn't at all clear to me.

 

So far as the notice is concerned, it's up to you to pay or appeal within the 21 days shown on the notice and I've already given a full explanation of the procedure on another DLR Penalty thread, but SRPO is right, it will not just go away. If after the time allowed it remains unpaid, it will be passed to the DLR's prosecutors.

 

If you gave your names correctly and ithey have been written down in the wrong order, that is not going to stop the inspector from making out a statement on the facts that were recorded and it seems to me that reading your post again, you can be identified quite easily from what you have given.

 

Yes I travel for work every day, let me explain the journey again...

 

I travel on national rail therefore when i touch in and out on prepay it already takes the balance out for the zones I travel, so when I get on the DLR and I tap in and out, it does not take off any money. So using the DLR costs me £0 because I have already been travelling in those zones as I've been on national rail, and on the DLR im basically going back on myself...therefore it does not charge me a penny. Is that understandable? so the journey I was making would not have cost anything anyway. That is the point I am trying to make...and yet because I didnt touch in because I was in a rush (So please stop getting snotty and saying oh u dont touch in u pay the price, have u never been in a rush before?) So I'm having to pay £25 for a journey that wouldn't have cost me a penny anyway! Thats why I'm annoyed, not because of the ticket inspector, not because I want to dodge a fine, not because of anything other than that. I failed to touch my card yes, but if they had gates at every station would I have forgotten then? I even have the statement as proof that I always touch in and out when using the DLR, just this one time, that I was in a rush, and on a not so busy DLR train (Hence the ticket inspector being there, as we all know if it was a busy train, he would have been nowhere to be seen) so please stop giving me attitude as if I intentionally evade train fares every day, It was once i forgot to touch my card, and worst of all it was on a journey that even if I had touched in, I would not have been charged. That is why I do not want to pay £25. I'm not being rude its just a bit disrespectful to suggest I'm like some people in london who jump the barriers and all sorts, when it was a genuine mistake.

 

As for my name, he has my MIDDLE name as my last name, and my last name as my first name, they have no oyster card number, all they have is an address, therefore they cannot prove that it was me who was there, same as a speeding ticket, if they cant prove who was driving, no one pays the fine.

[Old-CodJA]

I guess that your posting above says all that anyone needs to know.

 

You have come onto this forum asking for advice and I have asked you a few questions to clarify what the best way to respond and help you might be.

 

You then accuse me of being 'snotty' and 'giving you attitude'

 

I will say that if you do not pay the penalty or successfully appeal it, it is extremely likely that you will be identified and may face prosecution. I will not elaborate further.

 

I intended to provide you with the best advice that I could however, you clearly do not want my help, but need someone to 'rubber stamp' your belief.

 

Good luck

Edited July 14, 2009 by Old-CodJA

[andydd]

Yes I travel for work every day, let me explain the journey again...

 

I travel on national rail therefore when i touch in and out on prepay it already takes the balance out for the zones I travel, so when I get on the DLR and I tap in and out, it does not take off any money. So using the DLR costs me £0 because I have already been travelling in those zones as I've been on national rail, and on the DLR im basically going back on myself...therefore it does not charge me a penny. Is that understandable? so the journey I was making would not have cost anything anyway. That is the point I am trying to make...and yet because I didnt touch in because I was in a rush (So please stop getting snotty and saying oh u dont touch in u pay the price, have u never been in a rush before?) So I'm having to pay £25 for a journey that wouldn't have cost me a penny anyway! Thats why I'm annoyed, not because of the ticket inspector, not because I want to dodge a fine, not because of anything other than that. I failed to touch my card yes, but if they had gates at every station would I have forgotten then? I even have the statement as proof that I always touch in and out when using the DLR, just this one time, that I was in a rush, and on a not so busy DLR train (Hence the ticket inspector being there, as we all know if it was a busy train, he would have been nowhere to be seen) so please stop giving me attitude as if I intentionally evade train fares every day, It was once i forgot to touch my card, and worst of all it was on a journey that even if I had touched in, I would not have been charged. That is why I do not want to pay £25. I'm not being rude its just a bit disrespectful to suggest I'm like some people in london who jump the barriers and all sorts, when it was a genuine mistake.

 

As for my name, he has my MIDDLE name as my last name, and my last name as my first name, they have no oyster card number, all they have is an address, therefore they cannot prove that it was me who was there, same as a speeding ticket, if they cant prove who was driving, no one pays the fine.

 

To be fair 'being in a rush' is no excuse and it certainly would be laughed at if you used that as a defence, incidently you wouldnt get away with this on the majority of the undergound line because you HAVE to swipe your oyster to get through the barriers, DLR doesnt have barriers at the majority of stations, however because of this, there are many more ticket inspections.

 

You point out it was a genuine mistake, however, dont you think that everyone could claim that, Tfl have to draw the line somewhere, just count yourself lucky you wernt prosecuted and recieve a very large fine like some unlucky travellers do.

 

Sorry to be harsh, I'm no fan of the way the public are sometimes treated by ticket inspectors on tubes and trams, but ultimately you don't have that much to complain about, just make sure you swipe in and out next time.

 

Your claim that the DLR may not take any more money from your oyster may be true, however the inspector doesnt know where you are travelling too..it may be out to zone 6 which would involve extra cost than has already been taken from your oyster card.

 

You could of course risk not paying the penalty fare as there is some mix up in your name, not sure i'd want to risk it, as the penalty fare goes up to £50 if not paid within a certain amount of days.

 

Andy

[SRPO]

Deleted.

Edited September 23, 2009 by SRPO

[andydd]

As an aside, using prepay on national rail doesnt work.

I seriously recommend you take steps to find out what you need for the journeys you are making or you will end up with even more penalty fares to pay.

 

Yes..It does, there are numerous routes within London on which you can use Pre pay Oyster, C2C between Upminster and Fenchurch Street as an example, also Stratford to Liverpool Street on NXEA.

[SRPO]

Deleted.

Edited September 23, 2009 by SRPO

[Jphene]

Yes..It does, there are numerous routes within London on which you can use Pre pay Oyster, C2C between Upminster and Fenchurch Street as an example, also Stratford to Liverpool Street on NXEA.

 

I use the C2C route so yes you are correct I use PAYG on this route and am completely within my means to do so, infact most people do.

 

And Old-CodJA, my post was in no way at all aimed at you, and I dont know why you thought it was, you was in no way showing me attitude. It was aimed at SRPO for his obvious attitude problems with comments like "Personally, I dont care if you pay the penalty or not" and "Man up and just pay the fare", if he doesnt have anything useful to say, then he should keep his mouth shut instead of trying to get his post count up. Just didnt see the need for the attitude, it's not as if I came across with an attitude like "AH DAMN IT BLUD THE INSPECTOR CAUGHT ME JUMPIN THE FARE CAN U HELP ME GET OFF OF IT?"

 

I was asking the questions as I feel abit aggreived that I got a £25/£50 fine for not realising the oyster reader didnt give me the green light as I was rushing, for a journey that would not cost anything. Yes fair enough he didnt know my destination, and fair enough most people probably use the excuse "oh I forgot to tap in" but I mean I was dressed in a suit and I told him where I was going, wasnt hard to put 2 and 2 together. It's not like I was in a tracksuit with a gang of boys, and lets be fair, If I was he would have felt intimidated and not said a word anyway. And yet people just trying to get to work end up getting fined, and the real wrong do-ers get away with it.

 

So if I cant get a criminal record from not paying the fine, what can they do? I mean if I let it go to £50 and refuse to pay it still, what after? £100? or will they send debt collectors? or will I go to court about it? I would have paid the fine there and then if I felt I was in the wrong, but I really don't feel like paying this one, out of principals more than anything else. Still I suppose at least if I do maybe they will put the money into all the station refurbishments going on at the moment and actually finish one of them!

[SRPO]

Deleted.

Edited September 23, 2009 by SRPO

[Old-CodJA]

So if I cant get a criminal record from not paying the fine, what can they do? I mean if I let it go to £50 and refuse to pay it still, what after? £100? or will they send debt collectors? or will I go to court about it? quote]

 

Please look at your posting again and you will see why I responded as I did. You specifically quote my posting and made your comments.

 

In respect of your most recent posting, a part of which I have quoted here, no, this will not increase to a £100 penalty fare after the £50 becomes due - there is no legislation to support that.

 

Yes, an unpaid penalty fare notice CAN result in Court action.

 

There is a strict liability requirement to produce a valid ticket on demand where facilities were available. If you fail to do so and then do not appeal or pay the penalty, the rail company may cancel the notice and proceed to prosecution within 6 months of the alleged offence being reported.

Edited July 15, 2009 by Old-CodJA

[andydd]

My profuse apologies, I didnt realise you were wearing a suit, in that case that stupid jumped up little inspector should have tipped his cap and allowed you to pass unhindered.

Why dont they pick on the real criminals, like teenagers & hoody wearers, and people who say blud?

Personally I would complain in the strongest possible terms!

 

Hee,,This thread is keeping me amused.

 

Jphene..Whilst I do agree that inspectors can be jumped up little so and so's and that there are many posts on this forum where passengers do appear to have been treated unfairly, yours really isn't one of them. It is your responsibilty to look out for the green light and listen for the beep, of course people do make mistakes and occasionally Oysters readers pack up or go nuts, (incidentaly what does the orange light mean !?), in your case its hard to work out what you want from this thread, there are people who in the same situation as you have ended up with a court appearence, a fine and a criminal record, personally i find that a bit harsh, so in your case a penalty fare and a reminder to be more careful in the future isnt too bad, if you still think you are 100% in the right you can always appeal

[Jphene]

First of all, if getting fined for making a journey that would be free even if you had tapped in, because you are travelling in the same areas you have already paid for, same idea as a travelcard, is "unacceptable" and worthy of a £50 fine, then I am guilty, however common sense says that its not.

 

Secondly, SRPO, if you think you are winding me up, you are wrong, Infact its quite sad that you have nothing better to do than post moody sarcastic replies to people on a forum, clearly your life is rather boring, so I will say no more on you.

 

Thirdly, I spoke to a friend who deals with all this kind of stuff (Parking fines, train fines etc.) and he informed me that if the name on the penalty fare ticket is wrong, then that makes the fine invalid, therefore the DLR/TFL wont be getting a f*cking penny of my money, and for that I am happy.

 

Thank you to everyone who actually posted helpful replies.

[SRPO]

Deleted.

Edited September 23, 2009 by SRPO

[Old-CodJA]

You may well think that I am also 'winding you up' Jphene, but far from it. This is intended to be helpful.

 

One of the most common failed 'defences' that I've heard in prosecuting these matters over many years is the one that goes along the line of: 'My friend said it was OK'

 

Please be assured that there is no similarity between the processing of Parking Fines and Railways Fare Evasion matters.

 

I shall repeat a couple of points from earlier on in this thread. I believe that you said you gave your correct address and he wrote your names in the wrong order. Others may think otherwise, but I still say there is a good chance that you'll be identified, especially if you travel the same journey for work each day.

[imucky]

Let me try and help you....

pay the penalty fare would be the best option because if you appeal via writing saying that the person don't live at the address, the inspector will knock on your door and serve you a summons.

Did you sign the penalty fare??

Did the inspector check your details??

If so how did he do this..phone, driving license etc??

If this ends up in court it will be pretty easy to identify that it was you just because the inspector wrote down your name in wrong order..CCTV??

If you go to court and say that the person on the penalty fare don't live at the address you will need to prove this. i.e your bills, tax etc.. bare in mind that the inspector will be there to identify you.

[Jphene]

Let me try and help you....

pay the penalty fare would be the best option because if you appeal via writing saying that the person don't live at the address, the inspector will knock on your door and serve you a summons.

Did you sign the penalty fare??

Did the inspector check your details??

If so how did he do this..phone, driving license etc??

If this ends up in court it will be pretty easy to identify that it was you just because the inspector wrote down your name in wrong order..CCTV??

If you go to court and say that the person on the penalty fare don't live at the address you will need to prove this. i.e your bills, tax etc.. bare in mind that the inspector will be there to identify you.

 

No I didnt sign a thing.

Clearly he didnt check them or he wouldnt have the wrong details.

Driving Licence.

And he didnt write down my name in the wrong order.

He put my MIDDLE NAME as my surname and my surname as my first name. So its not just a case that hes put my first name and surname in the wrong field. Hes completely cocked it up.

He wont be there to identify me because if he were he would probably lose his job, as I'm sure inspectors cant see that you have an invalid ticket and ask you to leave the train without giving you a fare. That would be him not doing his job properly now wouldnt it? Quite simply, he was on a power struggle, and no force on heaven or earth will make me give the DLR my money.

[Old-CodJA]

Let's get this clear.

 

You are saying that you gave your correct address, confirmed by your driving licence and that the Inspector wrote the address down from that??

 

You say that he wrote your middle name in the wrong box on the penalty ticket and your surname where your given name/s should have been?

 

Right, let's assume you do not pay and do not respond to any letters that the rail company may send.

 

Once the period that is allowed for the payment of the penalty fare has expired, the rail company is entitled to cancel the penalty notice and proceed to prosecution for the unpaid fare. The rules specifically allow for this.

 

It seems clear that you will be identified as the traveller by your driver number, address and surname.

 

If you ignore any Summons they may issue the case might be proven in your absence.

 

If you do not ignore a summons and claim that you have been the 'victim of an impostor' the rail company may point to the evidence of the photograph on the driving licence (if it has one) and DVLA number recorded. They may well decide to proceed thus necessitating your attendance at a court hearing.

 

Whatever makes you think 'the inspector would lose his job' in those circumstances? I really don't understand that bit.

 

Good luck

[Jphene]

How can he point to my photo evidence when he doesnt have it? and Nor does he have my DVLA/Driving license number. Just name and address. And the name is wrong as I have said...

[imucky]

So how did the inspector verify your details?