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    • I am being harrangued for a debt I don't owe whilst in hardship by EDF, who was given this household's supply by OFGEM when it closed down several small companies in 2019. Unbelievably, this is happening during cold months and a full strict lockdown!   I consider that this is a crime on several counts: 1) fraud by nondisclosure, as per 2006 act: that free energy exists and that patents have been suppressed to help us use it, thus giving the illusion that energy can only be supplied by for profit companies (the same is true of water), when it is a naturally occurring, God-given free resource which has been harnessed and sold back to us, and it's hard to avoid or find alternatives 2) the energy industry is a form of modern slavery as per 2015 act, holding us in lifelong custom: something we need, can't easily find an alternative from or not use. This supplier took over without consent or knowledge or warning and will not relinquish me without paying them; but the amount grows as they continue our abusive relationship 3) as utility acts such as the 1989 and 1990 clash with inalienable natural Common Law and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights of 1948 and various other laws, some to be listed anon, that the so-called powers given to energy companies to gain money and bully are not lawful 4) removal of energy takes our rights (as in the UDHR) to eat, wash, be warm, work, communicate, and have leisure and enjoyment. Particularly, it can cut those off who rely on the internet and battery operated phones, thus making them vulnerable, and causing a snowball effect 5) cutting off, or the fear and bullying around doing so and 'recovering debts', causes mental and physical suffering, as well as great inconvenience and loss. a) These are recoupable in monetary terms of the claimant (ie customer's) choosing b) this amounts to constructive demise or manslaughter  - including attempt and conspiracy to commit this serious crime (attempt and conspiracy apply for all the others below) 6) asking for money in a way which is upsetting, intimidating or distressing is another criminal offence under the Prevention From Harassment act of 1997 - and most debt demands fulfil this, and are not incidental, but designed to cause fear in the way they are worded, in the design of the 'red, urgent' envelopes, in the vagueness of who and where the collector is, offering a generic phone number; bluffing about their powers and a warrant; coming to the door with hand delivered envelopes to embarass in front of household members and neighbours; and the way they appear at your door to actually collect or tamper with supply 7) There is Aggravated Trespass under the criminal justice and public order act of 1994, where if you have given written notice that implied access to your property (I include remotely, in the case of smart meters), to enter the premises (including outside areas) without written permission and especially with ill-intent, is a further summary, ie imprisionable offence 8) this is also exhortion and blackmail 9) it is an aggressive sales technique, no different from drugs barons and loan sharks 10) a prepayment meter is just another way of forcing debt repayment, and as the customer doesn't set the amount, if they do not have resources they are still left without power and heat 11) this is closely related to the data and surveillance and weaponised energy of 5G via smart meters, and so this is a) espionage b) mass experimentation under the Nuremburg code of 1948 c) biowarfare 12) it is also breaking and entering, if they force or pick locks 13) any physical abuse has other crimes - such as battery, grevious bodily harm, assault 14) lying or tricking to gain entry is also a crime 15) their involving your neighbours breaks confidentiality, such as asking about you, getting them to let them in. This is against their industry code and 16) during lockdowns and other restrictions related to covid, they break the coronavirus act 2020. Utility workers are only classed as keyworkers when they are keeping a supply running and safe. They are not permitted to work or travel to harass and cut off - this is especially reprehensible during an extended pandemic when so many are anxious have weakened immunity, and financial difficulties. When most of us are not meant to see loved ones, especially indoors 17) if the operatives are masked - this includes a locksmith or any enforcement with them - this heightens the offence as, despite covid guidance, it is done with criminal intent and knowingly a) makes them look sinister, thus adding to fear of the customer b) hides their identity and obfuscates justice 18) any persons involved, including administrators and the judge who created any warrant 19) to exaggerate one's legal powers is also an offence   Furthermore, utility companies send out - and sell out - debts and debt collectors who have no knowledge of the communications between the company and the customer; such as whether they are misbilled, or even the right person. I also believe that poor service, such as being ignored or bullied, means a rebate on the 'bill'.   The ombudsman have consistently exacerbated and failed to put right, and OFGEM's policies have added to this too.   We need to take the power back into our hands; to choose our energy source and provider; to harness free, safe energy.   I am putting EDF staff on notice for all these.   Has anyone else had any similar trouble for this, especially in the last year? I would like to know the extent of the problem   I am considering class action. An expression of interest in no way commits you, especially financially.   You may be interested in my piece at https://elspethr.wordpress.com/2020/08/22/expulsion-from-the-garden-its-time-we-took-our-energy-back/, via which you can get in touch  
    • No, there is no ombudsman for this kind of thing. It's a huge industry with a lack of regulation which is why it broadly speaking does what it wants without a lot of regard for customers. You haven't addressed the question which I put to you in my last post.
    • Hi - email submitted.   After some sleep (4am wake up yesterday - loooong day) I redrafted email to be a bit more readable whilst clearly stating the points above but being less aggressive/rude 😳    Being very tired I briefly considered just getting the repair and compensation (if they offered) but after some sleep and in the light of day I saw some further damage to the piping (minor, but there) on the same bit of arm so promptly hit send on my email! My sister also told me of her friend who had a whole host of problems trying to get damage on delivery fixed so I’m definitely not going down that road. I’m going for a replacement.    Will update as soon as I hear anything.   Thanks
    • DX - regarding the t&c- do you mean the bit at the very bottom that says "this agreement incorporates t&c set out in the long form version" ?   ill take this up with them in mediation, got nothing to lose   Just so i understand, that signed agreement isnt actually the t&c ? that should be included too? im looking online for the actual govt guidance, but the OFT has shut down and the consumer regualtion guidance doesnt actually mention t&c as far as i can see
    • Thanks Andy. The judge made a big deal about the costs and spend a good 15-20 minutes making sure they had covered everything. 
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    • I sent in the bailiffs to the BBC. They collected £350. It made me smile.
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
        • Thanks
    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
      • 1 reply
    • Natwest Bank Transfer Fraud Call HMRC Please help. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428951-natwest-bank-transfer-fraud-call-hmrc-please-help/&do=findComment&comment=5079786
      • 33 replies

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I've read a few posts on here and found them most informative however I was wondering if someone could look at my situation and help me get my head round it all?


I think bankruptcy may well be my only option but any advice would be wonderful.


Background - Jan 2008, made redundant with no warning from a job in Mortgage Industry (£31,000 a year but had to pay own tax, worked as employee for 6 years, then changed firm to LLP so was made to be SE for another 1.5 years before leaving) Took the firm to small claims court as didn't pay me a penny from the date I had to leave. Judge ruled I was employed as had start times, set hols, lunch and paid sick etc. Awarded me the notice pay only, got £4k.


Mortgage was £1300 a month so sold my BMW, borrowed some off mum, used my savings that I was supposed to pay tax with to keep the mortgage going but by the time July came, it dawned on my and my husband that we'd done it all in vain. We couldn't keep the repayments up on this and everything else. I couldn't find job of same £'s locally (have 2 small children I need to be at home for) so March 08, I took a £15k a year admin job to tide us over, I still had to pay nursery fees so we had no chance of keeping that mortgage up.


In August 2008, we handed our house back to Northern Rock. We bought it in 2007 for £239,000 they sold it Dec 08 for £163k. We owe the difference but they've not been in touch since the sale (maybe they've forgotten me ;) )


We had a secured loan, 2 credit cards, 4 catalogues, a flexi loan, an overdraft (all manageable before) and of course I had to submit tax returns. Needless to say, I am frightened of owing the IR so didn't submit the returns (naughty I know but I'm scared as can not pay them anything like what I owe)


We kept the council tax up to date, and owe money to the water, gas and electricity companies that serve our rented house. I've cleared our old electricity debt and am currently paying a small amount weekly to clear the old gas debt.


So far, Lowell's have been the only one to contact me regarding a catalogue debt (now significantly more than I remember), sent a CCA and they can't produce anything so they've gone away for now. Others are trying to find me, SQN and Apex are pretending they've got some personal news for me.


I've burried my head for too long now, I want to face things and get it all sorted but it's this IR situation that's bothering me. I have half done the tax returns outstanding. I am going to submit them with a letter and try to explain my reasons and hope they understand. They may well make me bankrupt and tbh it wouldn't bother me that much anymore, I've had enough of this situation.


I've never owed before in my life like this, our debts must clear £200k which is awful. I have tried and tried to get another job but it's not happening, in fact my mum has paid for me to do a college course to re-train so that i might be able to change jobs and get some decent wages coming in.


I guess the first step is the IR and their tax returns! I should have tackled this months ago but have been so scared and depressed i just couldn't face up to it!


Anyway, if anyone has any advice or tips or even just to tell me off for being so stupid, I would be grateful.

Thank you for reading my waffle :lol:


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if you feel bankruptcy is the only option open to you have a word with these guys.

i filed today have my hearing thusrday.

these people are very good and if you are working for yourself they will give you the number of the business debt helpline who are as just as helpfull.


National Debtline – Free, Confidential Debt Advice – Call 0808 808 4000

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Hi Lou


You are not stupid and you are not waffling.


I am the same when it comes to the Inland Revenue, but take it step by step and you will get there.


I would look into all your options, have a good read through the posts on this site they are so helpful.


If I can be of any help PM me.


L xx

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Hi Lou


I know this sounds a bit odd but your are i guess already defualted and CCG form your debts so your have a bad credit rating for 6 years anyway,


if your income does not allow you any money to pay your debts after basic living costs or even leave you in a negative, then going bankrupt is the main option.


if you can afford more than £200 a month after you basic living expenses then you could do an IVA.


However if your debt is as much as as you say and you have already lost the house then Bankrupt is the way to go, it will take into account all your debts including northern rock but will not take into account IR.


The IR will however allow a payemnt scheme that will be prioritised over any payments to lenders.


if you want any specific advise let me know cheers james

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However if your debt is as much as as you say and you have already lost the house then Bankrupt is the way to go, it will take into account all your debts including northern rock but will not take into account IR.


The IR will however allow a payemnt scheme that will be prioritised over any payments to lenders.


Any debt will be included in the BR -exceptions are CSA, certain court fines and student loans (not bank related, cards and overdrafts etc but actual student loans from govt).


Not sure where your statement is coming from about the IR.



if you want any specific advise let me know cheers james


Please post any questions on your thread and they will be answered so all can see and advise further.

Consumer Health Forums - where you can discuss any health or relationship matters.

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Yes the IR would be included in bankrupcy, but if your not looking to go that route, the IR do have a repayment scheme - especially during these times (apparently).


Bear in mind also that it will cost any creditor around £1,500 to make you bankrupt, so they won't necessarily be in any hurry to do so.


Have you looked through Debt Collection Industry - The Consumer Forums you will get some great advise about your debts and whether your agreements are enforceable. Knowledge is all empowering.


If you feel that there is no way out or dealing with the debt and bankruptcy is your only anwer, then do seek advise before doing so.


All the best

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  • 1 month later...

If you're up the creek so to speak, Bankruptcy is the only way. My wife had business debts, credit cards the works. We did voluntary repossession on our house and she filed for personal bankruptcy as all business stuff was in her name.

IR and EVERYTHING was in it. You get discharged after a year now. You won't be able to get credit for about 6 years after discharge though so you are looking at 7 years from date of bankruptcy before you can consider a mortgage etc. Some do 3 but you'll pay well over the odds.

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