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    • then there is your proof to them why would you pay for BB twice!!   for my notes: GENERAL NOTES ON CHARGEBACK & Continuous Payment Authority & BACS   .....  We have been telling people to put a letter into their bank instructing them  not to make any payments under any circumstances to these companies  . http://whatconsumer.co.uk/visa-debit-chargeback/- it works! usually this should be done using the number on your debit card  .  banks MUST follow written intructions from their customers ! . CANCELLING YOUR DEBIT CARD DOES NOT STOP CPA'S  .  This fsa guide has now been updated:  . http://www.fsa.gov.uk/static/pubs/consumer_info/know_your_rights_guide.pdf http://www.fca.org.uk/news/continuous-payment-authorities-your-right-to-cancel https://www.fca.org.uk/consumers/unauthorised-payments-account  .  Here's the text:  .  Cancelling a regular  card payment:  .  When you give your credit or debit card details to a company and authorise them to take regular payments from your account,   such as for a gym membership or magazine subscription,  it is known as a ‘recurring transaction’ or ‘continuous payment authority’.  . These are often confused with direct debits, but do not offer the same guarantee if the amount or date of the payment changes.  .  In most cases, regular payments can be cancelled by telling the company taking the payments.   .  However,   you have the right to cancel them directly with your bank or card issuer by telling it that you have stopped permission for the payments.   Your bank or card issuer must then stop them – it has no right to insist that you agree this first with the company taking the payments.  .  Be aware, though, that you will still be responsible for paying any money that you owe. and that CANCELLING YOUR CARD WILL NOT STOP THE CPA  .  ..  .  New june 2013  .  Regulator orders Banks and mutuals to review complaints about not cancelling recurring payments from November 2009.  .  Consumers who have set up a regular payment from their account will now be able to successfully cancel that arrangement   by contacting their card provider, the Financial Conduct Authority said.  .  The FCA has been examining how easy it is for customers to cancel Continuous Payment Authorities (CPAs)   due either to payday lendersicon or for other regular payments such as subscriptions or gymicon memberships.  .  CPAs, which are also commonly called recurring transactions or recurring payments,   are relatively easy to set up but can be hard to cancel, causing problems for consumers trying to manage their finances,the FCA said.  .  Now, following the FCA review of how the largest high street banks and mutuals process requests to cancel CPAs, they have agreed that they will ensure that when   a customer asks for a recurring payment to end, that will be sufficient to cancel the arrangement. They have also confirmed that should a payment go through by   mistake following cancellation by a customer the customer will be refunded immediately.  .  In addition to securing this commitment, the largest banks and mutuals have agreed to review every individual complaint they have received about the non-  cancellation of a CPA and to pay redress where payments have continued to be made despite the customer cancelling the arrangement. This applies to all complaints   since November 2009 when the Financial Services Authority, the FCA’s predecessor, began regulating banking conduct.  .  Clive Adamson, the FCA’s director of supervision, said: “It’s important that consumers are confident that banks are meeting their everyday banking needs. Today   customers can be confident that when they ask for a Continuous Payment Authority to be cancelled – it will be cancelled - and that it can be done easily.   . “We recognise that historically this is an area where some customers have struggled but the banks and mutuals have responded positively to our work on this issue.   From now on we expect them to be getting this right. In addition, they have committed to review past complaints.” .  .  Also mentioned your displeasure that as whomever took your money had obviously attempted this many times   probably activating your banks own anti fraud software - nobody had the decency to inform my you this was going on.? .  .In the FSA's own words:  .  ..  What should I do about a payment from my account that I didn’t authorise?  .  Your bank must refund an unauthorised transaction.   Money can only be taken from your account if you have authorised the transaction   or if your bank can prove you were at fault –  . see below.  Contact your bank immediately if you notice an unauthorised payment from your account. .  If you are sure you did not authorise the payment, you can claim a refund.  .  However, your bank does not have to refund you if you do not tell it about the payment until 13 months  or more after the date it left your account.  .  Your bank must refund an unauthorised transaction  .  ------------------  .  Your bank may only refuse a refund for an unauthorised transaction if:  .  ? it can prove you authorised the transaction  – though your bank cannot simply say that use of your password,   card and PIN proves you authorised a payment; or .  ? it can prove you are at fault because you acted fraudulently,   or because you deliberately,   or with gross negligence, failed to protect the details of your card, PIN or password in a way that allowed the transaction  .  -----------------------  .  How quickly must my bank refund me for an unauthorised transaction?  .  The bank must make the refund immediately unless it has evidence that one of the above reasons applies.   Your bank may ask you to answer some questions and fill out a form confirming what has happened,   but it cannot delay your refund while it waits for you to return the form.  If the bank has evidence that one of the above reasons for refusing a refund applies,   it may investigate before making a refund   but must look into it as quickly as possible.   If your bank rejects your claim for a refund it should explain why.  If the transaction was on a credit card, the refund may not happen immediately.   But the card issuer cannot charge interest or ask for repayment of the amount unless it can prove you are liable to pay        
    • Only asking because I want to get my facts right before I approach the bank! Yes, BT is coming out of the same account.
    • not if they want to make the OP the named claimant no!! let them take the other party to court themselves!! the op can be a witness then..   one bitten...read this thread..      
    • eh? no valid contract!   is the BT coming out the same bank AC?  
    • Hi Sorry but i am still stuck on where to go next in all of this.   This week the dealer contacted me at the 11th hour to talk repair of my car. He seemed only interested in the repair in speaking of just one of the problems  and i was struggling to get him to commit to the other fixes required. I asked him about the service history log and the proof that he had changed the cam belt.   He has told me that he will chase the service log book through his accountant. (I'm confused why through his accountant) and that his mechanic would provide the paperwork for the cambelt work, although he is away until September. (I dont believe any of this. He has had months to do this)   Back in June he said in a text to me that he would get my car fixed once his supplier opened for business from the 4th July and arrange a date with me. From that date onwards i was unable to contact him. He didn't answer his phones or reply to my texts or answer machine messages. He has told me now that his business was closed during that time.    I asked him about the 3 recorded messages i had sent him that were signed for. He said that he has not seen any letters. Somehow though he has sold 10 cars throughout May, June and July. I have been watching his stock level on Autotrader and he has been advertising his new stock and his sales on facebook throughout this period. Also he has chosen to contact me this week on the night before i was stating i would take action.   Frustratingly i expressed my desire to return the car to him for a refund and he has told me that because i didn't reject the car in the first 30 days then that wont happen. How could i reject the car if his business was apparently closed, we was not responding to me other than initially putting off any attempt at repair work.   I am feeling completely cheated by this man. He has even accused me of purchasing a car from him that i knew was faulty!!    I have shared my story recently on a Land Rover forum and interestingly a member of the forum has come forward and told me that he had also test drove the car before i did. He said the car displayed the errors i am experiencing and that the dealer had acted suspiciously. This forum member has offered to write me a statement if its of any use?   September the car is due an MOT and it is likely to fail because of the work he has not done. If i take this matter to court and it takes 6 months then what do i do if the car fails the MOT or the faults cause the car to brake down? I need this car for travelling to work and back.   Is it a viable option for me to get the car fixed myself and then claim that cost at court? I need a working car and i do not trust this dealer. He is clearly telling lies and i dont trust him completing the work to a satisfactory level if at all. Im assuming he is wanting to wait for HIS MECHANIC to get back from his holiday too. Strange time to be away for several weeks.   If i was to get my garage to do the repairs i could also ask them to confirm if the cambelt was ever changed. I'm convinced it wasn't.   Please advise. I am incredibly stressed out.
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    • Hi,  
      I was in Sainsbury’s today and did scan and shop.
      I arrived in after a busy day at work and immediately got distracted by the clothes.
       
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      I paid and was about to get into my car when the security guard stopped me and asked me to come back in.
       
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      • 16 replies
shinobi101

Difficult situtation - what to do?

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My total debt is around 40k.

overdraft 3000 (charges adding up fast)

Loan1 6000

Loan2 4000

Loan3 11000(CCA on 2 separate pages, prescribed terms p1, signatures p2)

Card1 10500(B/C probably no CCA)

Card2 5500(Amex dodgy DN, unenforceable cca)

Minimum payments around 900pm total.

My wife has had no work (agency) since before Christmas, and is trying to get a job but no luck so far.

My overtime has been cut to near enough zero.

Because of this I can now afford maybe 20 - 25% of the creditors claims. (monthly) That is, as long as I keep my job.

To make matters worse, Card1 was able to help itself to a small amount of savings I had to cover a minimum payment (legal right to set-off, apparently) I discovered this late one afternoon and reacting in anger I had a new current account by the end of the next morning. I now have a current account with a 3k overdraft, the bank adding charges like theres no tomorrow. Because of the breach of trust involved, even after 20 years with one bank, I could never trust that bank with my money again (legal rights or not), but need to resolve to situation with them.

Options:

IVA: Mostly just makes money for IVA companies. Mostly only good for who cant go bankrupt (MPs, maybe judges etc) I should be eligible, but an IVA lasts 5 years. My job might not.

Bankruptcy: Really hurts. You get crucified. They take almost everything. Info on the net is unclear as to what they can or cant take, and what they would or wouldnt take. Possibly a judge would now be harder on me because Ive challenged 2 ccas and given some creditors a hard time.

Challenge CCAs: If Loan3, and both cards are unenforceable, I should be able to pay the rest at a reduced but acceptable rate. There is no PPI on any of them. (I never trusted it)

Just pay it? The easy way out with the least grief, but simply not possible.

 

 

Creditors & DCAs often tend to be difficult to deal with, lie, make loads of threats (some fake, some real) harass and bully especially those who seem like easy targets, break agreements that they make, default or harass you without you having broken your agreement, and totally disregard many of the laws they are regulated by. (I learned most of that from the please help threads on here)

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I see you have changed banks thats a start, now reclaim the charges

 

if you have cca these loans have they been checked for enforceability?

 

Are the loans secured or unsecured?

 

are there any charges on the loans that can be claimed back?

 

from now on only ever deal in writing.

 

it may be easier to split the issues into seperate threads.

 

I personaly would not IVA or go bankrupt, but that is a decision only you can make


PGH7447

 

 

Getting There Slowly

---------

 

Advice is given freely but is in no way meant to be taken as Gospel:-)

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I see you have changed banks thats a start, now reclaim the charges

 

if you have cca these loans have they been checked for enforceability?

 

Are the loans secured or unsecured?

 

are there any charges on the loans that can be claimed back?

 

from now on only ever deal in writing.

 

it may be easier to split the issues into seperate threads.

 

I personaly would not IVA or go bankrupt, but that is a decision only you can make

 

Thanks PGH,

 

I have CCA'd the loans and still not got replies. Should have sent special delivery :(

 

2 of the loans are from 2008. Do they need a CCA, or are they automatically enforceable?

 

The other loan has prescribed terms on one page and signature on another (it was printed from the internet - I still have my copy but CCA'd them anyway)

 

I've also made a complaint about non-receipt of CCA's.

 

All of it is unsecured and I don't own property, so they can't screw me over by making an unsecured loan into a secured one.

 

The overdraft is still stacking up charges, the question is when to start reclaiming?

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Thanks PGH,

 

I have CCA'd the loans and still not got replies. Should have sent special delivery :( - in this case send the account in dispute letter and if still paying anything stop

 

2 of the loans are from 2008. Do they need a CCA, or are they automatically enforceable? - were they from the internet or by post? or at the counter

 

The other loan has prescribed terms on one page and signature on another (it was printed from the internet - I still have my copy but CCA'd them anyway)

 

I've also made a complaint about non-receipt of CCA's. who to?

 

All of it is unsecured and I don't own property, so they can't screw me over by making an unsecured loan into a secured one.

 

The overdraft is still stacking up charges, the question is when to start reclaiming?

 

start to reclaim the charges now


PGH7447

 

 

Getting There Slowly

---------

 

Advice is given freely but is in no way meant to be taken as Gospel:-)

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Send by recorded....and edit as required

 

Account In Dispute

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore

 

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

__________________

 


PGH7447

 

 

Getting There Slowly

---------

 

Advice is given freely but is in no way meant to be taken as Gospel:-)

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I would suggest getting offers of payment in to them.

 

We had (have:rolleyes:) a very large amount of debt (let's just say we trump you comfortably) which equalled probably close to 2k in repayments a month (not a problem as OH had an extremely well paid job at the time).

 

Unfortunately I became ill with a long-running health issue and OH lost his contract due to having to look after me. After living off savings for a few years, it became apparent that we were in deep trouble and I set about offering pro-rata payments.

 

We now pay under £200 a month and interest and charges have stopped. This has been in place for about 2 years. Some creditors were easier to deal with than others, but out of many banks only 2 refused to accept the payments offered; the rest all agreed with little or no fuss.

 

It could just be a way to give you a little breathing space while you get your job situations sorted out. The only thing is it will impact your credit rating. However if you are getting to the point where you can't pay anyway, that's going to be happening soon regardless.

 

It also doesn't mean you need to stop with the CCA stuff. I made the payment arrangements well before I know about the Act and various possibilities arising from it. I have for the last year been CCA'ing them and am finally seeing a possible light at the end of the tunnel.

 

If you do decide to make pro rata offers to the creditors, just make sure you are honest in what you put as your disposable income, but also make sure you don't cut it to the bone. There is no point making an offer and then finding out a few weeks/months down the line that it's too hard to stick to.

 

The big thing though is don't panic. As has been said always write, never discuss over the phone. Any and all letters sent should include something along the lines of 'please note I will not discuss financial matters over the phone and require all communication to be in writing', and they should all be sent recorded at least (banks have a big problem with this sort of mail getting 'lost'). Once you have written asking them to cease phone contact, refuse security when they phone and just repeat the sentence above.

 

Make sure you get the name of anyone who phones, and keep a log of all calls (time/date/name/brief outline of conversation). This is extremely important for if they refuse to write and keep phoning, as you need to be able to prove harassment.

 

If you can afford it it is well worth getting some sort of recorder for the phone. The Truecall device which you can buy on here is top notch, but at around £100 it's beyond our finances. We have a simple mp3 recorder which we got from Argos, and although it's far more clunky and has less stuff, it does the main job and was about £30. If you can get the Truecall though do!

 

I don't think the loans being from 08 means they are automatically enforceable, but it does mean if they are dodgy agreements they are not automatically unenforceable as the courts don't have to follow sec 127 anymore.

 

With the o/d I have no idea - I've never done bank charges so can't give any advice, but if you have a look on the bank charges threads I would guess there'd be plenty of help there?

 

Lexis:)


Time flies like an arrow...

Fruit flies like a banana.

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Send by recorded....and edit as required

 

Account In Dispute

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore

 

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

__________________

 

 

If you use this you need to decide whether it's 14 or 21 days you want to give them;)


Time flies like an arrow...

Fruit flies like a banana.

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If you use this you need to decide whether it's 14 or 21 days you want to give them;)

 

thats why its edit as required:)


PGH7447

 

 

Getting There Slowly

---------

 

Advice is given freely but is in no way meant to be taken as Gospel:-)

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ahem > :):oops:


Time flies like an arrow...

Fruit flies like a banana.

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ahem > :):oops:

 

Actually I had never noticed that discrepency before - Oops, will have to sort it before offering it on again


PGH7447

 

 

Getting There Slowly

---------

 

Advice is given freely but is in no way meant to be taken as Gospel:-)

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I don't think the loans being from 08 means they are automatically enforceable, but it does mean if they are dodgy agreements they are not automatically unenforceable as the courts don't have to follow sec 127 anymore.

 

They also have electronic signatures. Does that make a difference?

 

If they cant' show me a CCA would that stop them (legally at least) enforcing the 'agreement' at least until they do?

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