Buchananclarke + Wells & Advantis Credit chasing me for payments i do not owe!

[manny1]

Hi.

 

I have got a problem regarding utility bills of a property i was at last year. I will explain the whole story and hopefuly one of you good people can guide me as to what to do next.

 

Last year 05/08 i moved into a rented property through a estate agent called Cygnet Property Management, who are a part of Midlands Heart Group, on a 6 month Assured Shorthold Tenency Agreement which would need to be renewed in 11/08.

 

I wanted to renew my tenency and remain at the property for a longer period of time, so phoned up Cygnet towards the begining of september to see if this was possible. Cygnet phoned me after talking to the owner of the property and said it was not possible as the owner would want the property back in 11/08 after my tenency expired as he was looking to sell the property, however, they said, the owner was flexible as to when i move out i.e he was happy with me moving out prior to the agreement ending if i found somewhere else before 11/08. They said they would send me a letter explaining this, which i recieved after a couple of days, also attached to the letter was a Section 21 notice of repossesion of property.

 

I phoned them after a few days and told them i had found somewhere else and wanted to move out 26/09/08, to which they said no problem and would arrange for someone to come out and do a final inspection of the property on 26/09/08. Again I recieved a letter after a couple of days stating when the final inspection was. The letter stated a number of things which had to be done prior to the inspection which included ensuring my standing order for which i paid rent by was cancelled and that Cygnet would require the utility companies details and account numbers, so they could forward any bills i owed up until 26/09/08 to my new address, which i got done and provided them with respectfuly.

 

Ok the above should hopefuly clarify the teneny agreement arrangements for the property.

 

Now I will explain about the utility suppliers in question.

NPower provided the Electricity.

I belive, after being informed by Advantis Credit, Severn Trent the water. There was no gas at the property

 

First of all the water. During my 4 months at the property i recieved no letters or bills from the water supplier, I quieried the arrangments regarding water usage a couple of months after moving in with Cygnet and was informed that it was included in the monthly rent.

Last month i recieved a letter from Advantis Credit saying that i owed Severn Trent a sum of £146.10 and to contact them immedietly. I contacted them by phone and they asked for the ref. no of the letter and asked me to confirm my details which did ( altough they have spelt my name wrong on the letter that they sent me, i did not inform them of this). I then explained about not recieving any bills etc. while I was at the property and asked them to contact severn trent water to find out how they figured out the payment in question. Yesterday I recieved a letter from them saying that the info i requested had been recieved and to contact them by phone to get the matter concluded. I will not be contacting them by phone but will reply with a letter, please can someone help by advising me of which information i should include in the letter, idealy i want them to provide me with all information that they hold about me, and exactly how the pursued sum of money was figured out.

 

Ok now the electricity. Prior to moving in the electric meter reading had been taken by Cygnet and is stated in my tenency agreement. During my time at the property i paid one quarterly bill to Npower, recieved in the post, for the sum of £146.55 which covered me from when i moved in up untill 11/08/08. I paid this on 02/09/08 24 days before i moved out, also I informed NPower by phone 3 days prior to moving out, informing them i was leaving.

Since March this year I have recieved a number of letters from Buchananclarke + Wells who are pursuing me for £180.05 unpaid to Npower for a supply period up until Febuary this year!

 

The letters I have recieved are: 1) Formal Demand 2) Another Formal Demand 3) Final Demand 4) Legal Notification 5) Visit By Debt Investigation Officer and a couple of days ago 6) A EXCEPTIONAL oppurtunity to settle the bill by paying £135.49 by 15/07/09. If this is not done they will forward the matter on to their solicitors.

 

The 1st letter I thought was a mistake so ignored it. After recieving the 2nd letter I thought Ok, I should explain to them that I left the property in September 2008 and theirfore not liable for the payment. I did this by phone ( I know. mistake, should have been letter) the person i spoke to said I must send them proof of this, so i sent them a copy of the final inspection letter.

A week or so later i recieved the 3rd letter. Now this was begining to cheese me of. I contacted Npower and asked them what was going on, as BCW did not seem to understand that I left the property in September. They told me the same as what BCW said on the phone, send them proof, a copy of tenency agreement as proof to when i moved out. I explained the whole situation regarding the tenancy as explained above so they said send them a copy of the final inspection letter as well. I did this.

A week or so later i recieved letter no.4 from BCW, I kept calm and wrote them another letter along with which I resent the Final Inspection Letter and Tenency Agreement and Section21 notice, basicly i sent copies of everthin i had regarding my time at the property relevent to my stay their.I sent the info by recorded delivery this time.

The next letter i recieved was No.5. On reciept, i phoned Npower to confirm they had recieved the info i had sent. I spoke to 2 people during this conversation. 1st person checked on her system and said yes infos been recieved and to bear with her while she read through it. After reading through it she said I owed them money from 11/08/08 up until 26/09/08. I agreed with her on this point as i do owe them this money and told her ive been waiting for a final bill which ive never recieved. She said this was because i never informed them when i left the property! I explained i did inform them by phone, she said theres no record on her system of any phone call about that. ( Please note: On final inspection day i asked the Cygnet agent carrying out the inspection why they required utility company details etc. she said Cygnet would inform the companies on my behalf when i was leaving and provide them with final meter readings. I informed Npower directly myself as I believed this was the right thing to do. However did not note down any ref:no or anything regarding the phone call, as i was under the impression Cygnet would wrap things up. ). She did however agree that the information I had provided was enough proof that i left the property in september, and told me to hold the line while she figured out a final payment. After being on hold for 5 miniutes the ladys changed into a man! I ask where the ladies gone and he says youve been put through to me so "how can I help". I explain the whole situation again. He says "let me check if we have recieved the info youve sent us" mid way through my explanation, after a few seconds he says "We dont seem to have recieved anything yet. What was your final meter reading on the day you left the property? ". I remain calm. I tell him "the lady ive just spoken with has confirmed you have recieved the information". He Checks again. "mmmm.....No nothing here. I can settle the matter with a final meter reading." I tell him I dont know the final meter reading, I was not aware I had to do this. I was informed by Cygnet, who were acting on behalf of the landlord, were going to do this. Then I asked him have they not employed meter readers to this, to which he replied "No. Legaly we do not have to do meter readings ourselfs on a monthly basis but every 18 months." I then ask him how they figure their bills out and he says they are based on "estimates" but it is the customers responsibitlity to provide Npower with "actual" meter readings. I explain I was not aware of this and the lady i spoke to before did not mention this and i was put on hold while she figured out a "estimated" reading of my usage. He says I cannot settle the bill until I provide them with what the "actual" meter reading was on the day i left the property. I told him Im not chasing around doing this and they should do this, otherwise im more then happy to settle the matter in court. I then put the phone down.

Yesterday I recieved letter No.6 from BCW. Im not going to pay them this money, as i believe it is, based on my own "estimate", 3 times the amount i owe Npower.

I believe it should be BCW or Npower that should be chasing around gathering proof, meter readings etc etc and providing me with the required information so that i can decided weather i owe them money or not.....

 

Please help someone.

 

I have tried contacting Cygnet on various occasions throughout this ordeal, left messages on their answering machine but am getting no reply back. Ive tried contacting Midland Heart Group who are part of Cygnet and was given a name and no. for someone who is apparently incharge of Cygnet but recieve no answer when tring to contact them.

 

Any Help Would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks

[mr.ton]

Firstly stop speaking to BCW on the phone & refuse to answer security questions if they phone you.

They have no legal powers to money off you whatsoever & will say anything to lead you on a merry dance in the hope that you just pay up.

Report them to the OFT/trading standards.

Their threats are not worth the paper they are printed on & no-one from them has the authority to visit you without making an appointment 1st.

They can simply be told to go away.

[clemma]

Send BCW the following "prove it" letter - they should then provide you with utility bills (which, if dated after September, proves it is not your debt). Also, send them the no visit letter as well!! Do not speak to these people on the phone again. From now on do everything in writing!!

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Reference no: 00000000000

 

You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

 

I/we would point out that I/we have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (insert company name).

 

I am/we are familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

I/we would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

 

Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

 

I/we would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my/our liability for the debt in question.

 

I/we await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions.

 

I/we look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Account Ref xxxx

 

Please be advised that I will only communicate with you in writing.

 

Should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you.

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so, then you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

 

Yours faithfully

 

It is up to them to prove you owe what they state - you need do nothing until they provide this.

[manny1]

Hello all!

 

Firstly thank you Mr.Ton and clemma for your advice, much appreciated.

I sent out letters to both the DCAs, still waiting for a reply from Advantis, have recieved a reply from BCW this morning.

 

I sent BCW 2 seperate letters. The first one being a reply to there DEBT INVESTIGATOR VISIT in which I stated the above points in clemmas reply, also that I will communicate with them writing only.

 

The second stated that I reject there full and final offer and offered them a full and final offer of £24.39. I stated in the letter that this offer was for electricity costs for 12/08 up until the day I moved out ( 26/09) minus deductions for unneccesary communication and harrasment by BCW collegues to myself and the amount of time I have spent corresponding with them for a matter that they keep insiting that i am liable for, however refuse to provide proof how im liable for it. I also requested they send me all data they hold about me.

 

In the reply ive recieved they have not acknowleged my full and final offer, this is the response I have recieved:

 

" The information requested by you is known as a Subject Data Access Request and carries a charge of £10.

 

This Information can only be supplied by the Data Controller. Bcwgroup plc are the Data Processor and, as such, you need to submit your request, with your remittance, to our client directly. I would also like to state that we have took your phone number off your account as per your request. "

 

Now Im a bit confused of what I should do next and who is in control of the payment that I am being pursued for??

 

Please help.

 

P.S Im not sending a tenner to anyone.

[mr.ton]

I dont blame you not sending a tenner..i sure wouldnt, even though that is the normal proceedure in circumstances like this.

I personally would do nothing other than make complaints to all the relevant authorities.

BCW wont actually do anything anyway other than send threatograms which are not worth the paper they are printed on.

[babybear39]

BCW should be reported to TS and the OFT for breaching OFT guidlines, the UCPD and the CPUTR 2008.

 

Request a full statement of account from BCW which they HAVE to supply FOC.

[manny1]

Mr.Ton. The reason why I am replying to the letters I am recieving from BCW is that I am aware I owe Npower from 12-08 up until 26-09. I was waiting for a final bill to arrive at my new residence but never arrived. There fault, estate agents fault, whose fault I dont know. although I owe them money it is no where near the amount I am being pursued for. i figured it out to be around £50, based on charges per unit stated in the quarterly npower bill I paid whilst at the property. Ive offered a full and final payment which theve not ackowledged. If you or anyone can suggest a letter to write now it will be much appreciated. Basicly I will them what Ive offered them, or they can go f---k themselves. I would have paid Npower the £50 odd quid if they had sent me a final bill. They did not do this so their problem.

 

These DCAs think they are big men on the phone, would love to see one face to face.

[manny1]

What is the best way to make complaints to the authorities mentioned, by writing or in person?

 

What info will be in a full statement of account? How will this help me?

 

Thanks

[clemma]

Write to npower themselves and ask for a copy of the full and final bill......can't hurt can it. Forget BCW for now, as they are powerless without proof.

[mr.ton]

Save yourself the hastle of writing a letter & use this

 

www.howtocomplain.com

 

Just type in what company you are searching for - Npower or whoever, fill in all the specifics & send

[clemma]

What is the best way to make complaints to the authorities mentioned, by writing or in person?

 

What info will be in a full statement of account? How will this help me?

 

Thanks

 

You can write to them or email them (google will give you relevant information).

 

The full statement of account should show what you owe, when you owe it from - basically a breakdown of what they are claiming. This does not cost £10 as they are stating.

[babybear39]

The statement from BCW would show if they've added charges to your account

[manny1]

I will write a letter to see whats of the full statement of account.

 

Can I write a letter to Npower asking them to send me a tenner so I can resend all documentation regarding my residence at the property in question?

[mr.ton]

Use howtocomplain.com to contact Npower...its more convienient than writing & gives you extra options for what to do if still not happy etc...

[manny1]

Hi. Ive recieved a letter this morning from Scotcall Debt Collecting Services this morning which says that bcw have passed on the debt to them and failure to pay within 7 days will result in a doorstep call. Are these people Baillifs?

[babybear39]

No and they have no rights to call at your house without an appointment. If they do send them packing

[manny1]

thanks, will do

[manny1]

Anyone heard of Philips as the matter regarding the still unproved debt between myself and Npower has now been passed onto them. Ive recieved a letter from this company today and they are threatning to send someone to my premises to "execute further recovery procedures" unless i pay the money within 7 days.