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CONFUSED45

amex cca

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Hi Sunflower

Thanks for your kind words and help, we've all been bullied by these companies for too long now and its about time that got a taste of their own medicine:)

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Dear Confused45

What you need to consider is whether a judge will consider what you have posted in your first thread as an enforceable agreement under the CCA 1974 and SI.

I recommend you read the other Amex threads on CAG. You will note that many are fought on the basis of a "pre-Approved Application" and that Amex typically have not supplied the reverse of the Application, that MAY, constitute an executable Agreement. The other defence angle is the default notice, which Amex consistently mess up on.

Also note that some credit card Applications are enforceable as Agreements.

My reason for caution in your case is that they seem to have supplied the reverse side, which given it is 1998 is surprising. As I mentioned above, at that time and up until 2005/6 they typically just scanned in the top side containing personal details and signature (assuming that a court would enforce on this basis).

The other point is that Amex will fight this all the way, so just be prepared for this. Hence my question in relation to any default notice.

We have a lot of expertise with Amex on CAG and I am sure others will comment. Just don't expect Amex to cave in following your letter, you will get 3/4 DCA's then Brachers (if you are lucky) assuming that you are domiciled in England.

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Hi Monty2007

 

Thankyou for replying, I have taken on board what you have said and read the amex threads on CAG. I have today sent a letter requesting to see sight of the original agreement at their Offices and that I am willing to travel to either Brighton or London to view said document. I have also returned the £1.00 postal order that they sent back with the application.

I know Amex will not cave in, as we have previously had our offer of payment for full & financial settlement turned down. Also, with this application form on 3 separate pieces of a4 paper headed credit card agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974

1 mentions parties amex and name of cardmember and postal address, these are blank

at the bottom of the first page is a signature box, which is empty and on the third page is the cancellation form.

which is mentioned on the application form that they will send exact details on how to cancel in the post.

I maybe wrong, but I just have a gut feeling that something is not quite right here!

I will wait and see what my letter brings, if anything at all!

regards

confused45

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Hi Monty2007

 

Thankyou for replying, I have taken on board what you have said and read the amex threads on CAG. I have today sent a letter requesting to see sight of the original agreement at their Offices and that I am willing to travel to either Brighton or London to view said document. I have also returned the £1.00 postal order that they sent back with the application.

I know Amex will not cave in, as we have previously had our offer of payment for full & financial settlement turned down. Also, with this application form on 3 separate pieces of a4 paper headed credit card agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974

1 mentions parties amex and name of cardmember and postal address, these are blank

at the bottom of the first page is a signature box, which is empty and on the third page is the cancellation form.

which is mentioned on the application form that they will send exact details on how to cancel in the post.

I maybe wrong, but I just have a gut feeling that something is not quite right here!

I will wait and see what my letter brings, if anything at all!

regards

confused45

 

Hi Confused45

 

Unfortunately, there is no legal or other obligation for them to comply with your inspection request; I have also made similar previous requests (as have others) to inspect purported original Agreements.

You will almost certainly find that they go through their recovery process and rely on using this copy to enforce.

When/if you get to Brachers they will almost certainly accept 50% settlement which they offered me (pre-litigation), you may well get a better deal though.

Please don't think I am trying to put you off in any way, quite the opposite - I would love to see another successful case against Amex. I have three lever arch files full of 4 years of correspondence with Amex/NCO/VilCol/Brachers and BTO and hopefully at the end game as litigation is in progress.

Edited by Monty2007

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Hi Monty

 

please don't think your putting me off, as I respect and welcome other peoples opinions, because something you may have missed, could be pointed out but another member of the forum.

I have sent the letter off today and wait and see what it brings!

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I respect and welcome other peoples opinions, because something you may have missed, could be pointed out but another member of the forum

 

It is possible.....................

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Hi Monty

 

please don't think your putting me off, as I respect and welcome other peoples opinions, because something you may have missed, could be pointed out but another member of the forum.

I have sent the letter off today and wait and see what it brings!

HI confused

Thats great you sent a letter off as alright they may ignore it or refuse to comply and as monty point out got no legal obligation to allow you up to offices to inspect document or confirm that the second page is in fact reverse of the front but at least should it ever procceed to liigation you can show judge the letters and say you tried to make reasonable steps to view original alleged agreemnt and have a confirmnation about your concerns about enforceabilitty of document and state in court that they made no attempt to directly answer or confirm these queries about the document in questions and ask them in court or in communications at court stage!:D why they did not want even to confirm your queries about whether the two pages are from same document or not!

Edited by sunflower99

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Hi

sent letter requesting whether it was original document or if possible to view original document.

got letter dated 16th July 2009, stating that they were in receipt of my letter and dealing with my complaint and will reply within 28 days.

 

But, I have since had a default notice dated 17th july and then today received a notice of cancellation letter dated 18th July 2009 and I have 28 days to pay the outstanding balance on the account. I have posted the two letters below and would appreciate views as to how I handle this from now on.

http://i863.photobucket.com/albums/ab199/confused44/img029.jpg

http://i863.photobucket.com/albums/ab199/confused44/img028.jpg

regards

confused

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Hi Confused ! sorry they ignoring your letters but sounds per course like what happens in most cases with most banks they default you and countinue to register advers information on your credtif file ignore letters and countine to say they have an enforceable agreement even if they havent,You can either play the waiting ignore them and see what they do next which is what im doing with mine i strongly suspect not got enforceable ccas and see if they prgress to court or not which is what im doing! Though MBNA and their solicters Restons just issued a court claimn against me so i am going to defend myself on unenforceable agreement issuue or you could go down this road getting them to comply by making a cpr31.16 request for alleged original agreement -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html which some caggers are trying


Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Hi Sunflower 99

Thankyou for your quick response, I wasn't sure that there default notice was invalid as I was given any chance to reply as default notice was dated 17th july and notice of cancellation was dated 18th july. I thought they had to give me some grace before they issued cancellation notice. Sorry I may be barking up the wrontg tree.

confused

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Hi

sent letter requesting whether it was original document or if possible to view original document.

got letter dated 16th July 2009, stating that they were in receipt of my letter and dealing with my complaint and will reply within 28 days.

 

But, I have since had a default notice dated 17th july and then today received a notice of cancellation letter dated 18th July 2009 and I have 28 days to pay the outstanding balance on the account. I have posted the two letters below and would appreciate views as to how I handle this from now on.

http://i863.photobucket.com/albums/ab199/confused44/img029.jpg

http://i863.photobucket.com/albums/ab199/confused44/img028.jpg

regards

confused

 

Given the dates of these two documents, they have not allowed you to remedy the breach and terminated your account. Under no circumstances return the cut up card(s), there is one case where this was used to prove the debt (an odd case at that).

 

You should now consider your options since the DN is now ineffective.

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Hi Sunflower 99

Thankyou for your quick response, I wasn't sure that there default notice was invalid as I was given any chance to reply as default notice was dated 17th july and notice of cancellation was dated 18th july. I thought they had to give me some grace before they issued cancellation notice. Sorry I may be barking up the wrontg tree.

confused

Glad to be of help !:)


Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Hi Monty

 

Can you help me, as to what my options are now

 

regards

stressed

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Given the dates of these two documents, they have not allowed you to remedy the breach and terminated your account. Under no circumstances return the cut up card(s), there is one case where this was used to prove the debt (an odd case at that).

 

You should now consider your options since the DN is now ineffective.

Hi confused and Monty

Yes that case where some person really did badly in the judge lottery and got a jude enforceing an improperly executed agreement on the basis of soliciters producing a cut up credit vard was the pits and a terrible unfair judgement :(It was unbelievable and if the poor man had been well enough to appeal against it he should have been able to have it put aside ,He only survived a few months after judgement as he had terminal cancer:(S i suppose MBNA knew he probably would not have the time and energy to appeal against them and they made that persons last few months miserable,


Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Hi Monty

 

Can you help me, as to what my options are now

 

regards

stressed

 

Your best option is to let them litigate and defend on the basis that the DN is ineffective. See Consumer Credit (enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulation 1983 (SI 1983/1561) and Amendment regulations and Consumer Credit (Enforcement Default and Termination Notices) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 (SI 2004/3237).

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MBNA told me to cut my card up and send it back to them, I am glad i didnt ,I had already cut it into hundreds and hundred of pieces!:D so folks beware of strange men going through your bins trying to find your cut up credit cards!:D


Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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He only survived a few months after judgement as he had terminal cancer:(S i suppose MBNA knew he probably would not have the time and energy to appeal against them and they made that persons last few months miserable,

 

I did not know that. Terrible.

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Hi Sunflower & Monty

 

It's awful these people can get away with this, I hope they lay awake at night worrying about what they are doing, I don't think so!

regards

confused

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Yes well MBNA and scummy soliciters Restons takeing me to court so we shall see what they try and pull out of the hat whem i am in courtroom.


Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Hi

sent letter requesting whether it was original document or if possible to view original document.

got letter dated 16th July 2009, stating that they were in receipt of my letter and dealing with my complaint and will reply within 28 days.

 

But, I have since had a default notice dated 17th july and then today received a notice of cancellation letter dated 18th July 2009 and I have 28 days to pay the outstanding balance on the account. I have posted the two letters below and would appreciate views as to how I handle this from now on.

http://i863.photobucket.com/albums/ab199/confused44/img029.jpg

http://i863.photobucket.com/albums/ab199/confused44/img028.jpg

regards

confused

 

This is not a default notice as required by legislation to terminate the agreement.

 

The fact is that to legally terminate the agreement they must send you a default notice under Section 87 (1) of The Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The act lays down strict guidelines to the form and content of such a notice and the timescales allowed for compliance. The document you have received does not do that.

 

You will find plenty of information on default notices on the appropriate threads. Hopefully, someone will come along with comments on this notice.

 

However, they have terminated the agreement without providing the correct notice. There is a big debate on this on the following thread.

 

Tale of a Dodgy DN - Further Discussion

 

Sorry have no idea how to do a link

 

Pedross

Edited by pedross
clarify point

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not too sure wether i'm any help here but, MBNA took over the Amex accounts in late 2005. At that time they set new accounts up for existing Customers, and just sent new cards, not renewing agreements, and then at the same time, offered people with MBNA Cards the chance to have Amex cards to run alongside their visa cards on the same account, again without renewing agreements.

I know that if your account is older than say november 2005, they wont have a CCA, and if they did find one, your account details now, wont match your details of the Original Account.

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not too sure wether i'm any help here but, MBNA took over the Amex accounts in late 2005. At that time they set new accounts up for existing Customers, and just sent new cards, not renewing agreements, and then at the same time, offered people with MBNA Cards the chance to have Amex cards to run alongside their visa cards on the same account, again without renewing agreements.

I know that if your account is older than say november 2005, they wont have a CCA, and if they did find one, your account details now, wont match your details of the Original Account.

 

Dear Nish

 

This must have been some sort of MBNA/Amex deal since for pure Amex accounts they never involved MBNA. I had two accounts from 2003/4 and they had always been with Amex.

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My reason for caution in your case is that they seem to have supplied the reverse side, which given it is 1998 is surprising. As I mentioned above, at that time and up until 2005/6 they typically just scanned in the top side containing personal details and signature (assuming that a court would enforce on this basis).

My post above may explain the change in tactics in between dates???

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My reason for caution in your case is that they seem to have supplied the reverse side, which given it is 1998 is surprising. As I mentioned above, at that time and up until 2005/6 they typically just scanned in the top side containing personal details and signature (assuming that a court would enforce on this basis).

My post above may explain the change in tactics in between dates???

 

You may be right nish. I just did not know that MBNA had been "involved" with Amex. This could explain why this is an odd one?

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Dear Nish

 

This must have been some sort of MBNA/Amex deal since for pure Amex accounts they never involved MBNA. I had two accounts from 2003/4 and they had always been with Amex.

I worked at MBNA for my sins for 5 months beginning of 2006, and at that time, MBNA took over the running of Amex accounts, and paired them with Visa Cards.

All we were told is that although Amex were at one time, an independant company, they were to start looking after accounts, existing ones first then dealing with any new applications after that.

 

I obviously dont know theinns and outs, but i do remember, when we had to start first taking calls for Amex, MBNA software could not handle the info for the Amex accounts, as the Amex cards only have a 15 digit acc number, and the system wanted 16 numbers to proceed with queries.

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