I have started Court Proceedings against Paypal (Europe) & Paypal (UK)

[ForestChav]

Having already taken PayPal to court when their original European headquarters were located (Dublin), I can confirm the OFT has NO interest in a Luxembourg company.

Well, the OFT wouldn't care about an Irish company either. The whole point is that they would have an office in the UK.

 

and also, their arrangements are governed by English law:

https://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/UserAgreement/ua/EUUA-outside#dispute-policy

 

14.3 Governing Law and Jurisdiction. This Agreement and the relationship between us shall be governed by English law. For complaints that cannot be resolved otherwise, you submit to the non-exclusive jurisdiction of the English courts arising out of or relating to this Agreement or the provision of our Services without prejudice to your right to also initiate a proceeding against PayPal in that context before the competent courts of and in Luxembourg. In simple terms, “non-exclusive jurisdiction of the English courts” means that if you were able to bring a claim arising from this Agreement against us in Court, an acceptable court would be a court located in England, but you may also elect to bring a claim in the court of another country instead. English law will apply in all cases.

[tspkm]

Buzby, As i said above what address did you use for the defendant's address?

 

I have used Whittaker House, Whittaker Avenue, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1EH.

 

If you used their Dublin address then i'm not sure if that's maybe why Paypal disputed it? I don't know the details of your case.

[buzby]

Buzby, As i said above what address did you use for the defendant's address?.

 

 

I already answered you - Message # 15.

 

When I raised the action Dublin was PayPal's European HQ - they have only had two, Dublin and Luxenbourg. The London address could not be used for the service of documents, which was why I used Dublin. There are Foeums littered with messages from folk who sued in London and got nowhere.

[HSBCrusher]

Have you complained to the FOS?

[phils2309]

Can I say which is no doubt shares by thousands of others my experience with Paypal is they are Judge Jury and Executioner in all matters relating to any monetary issues one of which is freezing account holders funds with wrongful justification in doing so and you just have to sit back and accept their decision with minimal recourse and having dullards within PayPal responding to your countless emails with template replys getting you nowhere with me adding if one types Paypal Problems into Google and pages from the UK you amazingly have returned over 4 million links so I dont think I am alone on this thread with also a number of account holders fearful of taking on PayPal and just put it down to another Paypal nightmare experience reminding every one David did defeat Goliath. Again if I have any more news regarding the progress of my claim I will post it here.

I hope you and me both win because they really are a terrible company to deal with.

 

I have lots of evidence i can provide the Court, I have asked Paypal to prove their claims of freezing my account for suspicious activity and up until now nothing so how are they going to defend themselves?

 

Also I will be providing the Court with evidence that Paypal have ended our relationship and probably ended our agreement yet they still refuse to release my funds, I will fight them all the way and I am determined to win.

[tspkm]

Have you complained to the FOS?

 

Yes i have, I sent it around 10 days ago and have just received an Acknowledgement from them.

[tspkm]

Phil, Good luck with your case.

[HSBCrusher]

just for information, there are other payment methods out there, including the UK based nochex.

 

Nochex Merchant Accounts: Credit and Debit Card Processing Online

 

[andydd]

Interesting thread. I've been chased by Paypal and two DCA's for money they wrongly claim is owing, BUT I'm very confident that Paypal are well aware that many of their T&C's would not stand in court so in a scene reminiscent of the 'bank charges' case they are reluctant to start any court action, in fact it is widely thought that they have yet to take court action against anyone.

 

There seems to be 2 questions in this thread.

 

1) Can Paypal be taken to court using their UK address ? It would appear that in the early stages of the above 2 cases the answer appears to be yes.

 

2) Are their T & C's legally binding, although you do agree to their terms upon signing up, this doesn't mean that they are legal or dont break consumer law (.i.e I could have terms that say, pay up or I break your legs, could I turn up and carry out this threat ?..of course not).

 

Andy

[tspkm]

The question i need answering more than anything is as Paypal have informed me that they wish to end our relationship, therefore this would be ending the agreement then surely they have no right to hold onto my money for 180 days and should release it immediately?

 

Also i presume i will get the chance to send in all my emails as evidence at some point?

[tspkm]

Interesting thread. I've been chased by Paypal and two DCA's for money they wrongly claim is owing, BUT I'm very confident that Paypal are well aware that many of their T&C's would not stand in court so in a scene reminiscent of the 'bank charges' case they are reluctant to start any court action, in fact it is widely thought that they have yet to take court action against anyone.

 

There seems to be 2 questions in this thread.

 

1) Can Paypal be taken to court using their UK address ? It would appear that in the early stages of the above 2 cases the answer appears to be yes.

 

2) Are their T & C's legally binding, although you do agree to their terms upon signing up, this doesn't mean that they are legal or dont break consumer law (.i.e I could have terms that say, pay up or I break your legs, could I turn up and carry out this threat ?..of course not).

 

Andy

 

Thanks for your post Andy, I am thinking the same regarding question number 2, Surely their T&C'S would not stand up in Court? I cannot seem them being legal!

[andydd]

Thanks for your post Andy, I am thinking the same regarding question number 2, Surely their T&C'S would not stand up in Court? I cannot seem them being legal!

 

Well..it may take something like the current bank charges case to find out for sure, also i would of thought that if the account was closed then the money should be returned, although i recently closed my paypal account but was then latter told that it is 'kind of' kept open for a while in case there are any complaints about items id recently sold on ebay and were paid by paypal.

 

Andy

[tspkm]

Well..it may take something like the current bank charges case to find out for sure, also i would of thought that if the account was closed then the money should be returned, although i recently closed my paypal account but was then latter told that it is 'kind of' kept open for a while in case there are any complaints about items id recently sold on ebay and were paid by paypal.

 

Andy

 

My Paypal account is still open but i have two emails from Paypal confirming that they wish to end our relationship and that i am not allowed to open any more Paypal accounts in future.

 

This is a copy of what they said:-

 

Thank you for your recent emails in relation to the limitation on your

account, PP-718-411-495.A review of your PayPal account, registered under

the email address [email protected], shows that on 4 June 2009 your

account was placed under limited access, when it was flagged by our

security system for additional verification.

 

In light of your reluctance to provide the requested documentation

essential aiding to resolve the limitation from your account we would like

to begin parting ways in a manner that is least disruptive to your

business. In accordance with PayPal?s User Agreement, to which you agreed

when you created your PayPal account, PayPal may place a hold on funds in

your account, limit funding sources and payments, limit access to an

account and any or all of the account's functions, limit withdrawals,

indefinitely suspend or close your account and refuse to provide our

services to you if we believe that your account or activities pose a

significant credit or fraud risk to us, or we believe that your actions may

cause financial loss or legal liability for you, our users or us.

 

As per the terms of the PayPal user agreement, if there are funds in your

account, the remaining account balance of £185.78 GBP will be held for a

period of 180 days in order to minimize charge back risks. Any Buyer

Complaints or chargebacks received against your account during this time

will be paid from your account balance. Once the 180-day period has

elapsed, you may either withdraw to a bank account that is registered on

your PayPal account, or request a wire transfer which will cost $40.00 USD

fee.

 

Furthermore, I would like to advise that continued escalation to our

Executive Staff will not change the outcome of your case. We maintain the

position that the correct procedures were used in this case and that we

have acted in accordance with the User Agreement and its policy therein.

 

PayPal's decision to part ways with you applies to all current PayPal

accounts held by you or any further accounts you may open in an attempt to

circumvent our security system. Please note our system actively screens for

linked accounts opened for this purpose.

 

Please be assured that all actions taken in this case were completed in

accordance with the terms of the PayPal User Agreement to which you agreed

when you created your PayPal account on 2 May 2009. The sections of the

User Agreement relevant to your issue are listed below and can be found by

clicking on the ?Legal Agreements? link at the bottom of any PayPal page:

 

1.1 PayPal is only a Payment Service Provider.

9.1 Restricted Activities

10.2 Actions by PayPal.

10.3 Account Closure and Limited Access.

 

Please be advised that this is our final response on this matter. You might

also like to note that if you are not satisfied with our response, you can

refer this matter to the UK Financial Ombudsman Service (?FOS?) within the

next six months; see section 14.2 of our User Agreement. Or you can also

refer this matter in writing to our regulator at the following postal

address:

[tspkm]

The reason i refused to provide them with additional information was because i had already confirmed my identity, bank account and address and felt that i didn't need to do it again especially as the Paypal account was verified and sending the information again doesn't make a difference anyway as i have read from looking at other people stories, It's just another excuse they try and use against you.

[tspkm]

Also i received another email from them yesterday saying:-

 

Thank you for your recent email, dated 5 July 2009. I can confirm that we

maintain the decision to part ways with you, and we are satisfied that all

actions taken were done in accordance with the terms of our User Agreement,

which you agreed to on 2 May 2009.

[Toulose LeDebt]

UTCCR info LINK

 

Why 180 days?

 

What's the maximum period one can apply for a chargeback through paypal? 180 days I doubt very much which makes this a penalty.

A chargeback is only possible if the purchaser has paid for an item by creditcard, you have no way of knowing if the money in your account was a single transaction by credit card, debit card etc. or deposited or accrued funds. You could write to them and ask this I suppose.

You're also normally entitled to represent your case in any dispute over a chargeback, this will be difficult if paypal have closed your account and restricts the rights to which you agreed upon signup. Breach of terms by paypal?

 

Oh there is so much wrong with paypal.....

[tspkm]

UTCCR info LINK

 

Why 180 days?

 

What's the maximum period one can apply for a chargeback through paypal? 180 days I doubt very much which makes this a penalty.

A chargeback is only possible if the purchaser has paid for an item by creditcard, you have no way of knowing if the money in your account was a single transaction by credit card, debit card etc. or deposited or accrued funds. You could write to them and ask this I suppose.

You're also normally entitled to represent your case in any dispute over a chargeback, this will be difficult if paypal have closed your account and restricts the rights to which you agreed upon signup. Breach of terms by paypal?

 

Oh there is so much wrong with paypal.....

 

Thing is though if someone wants to open a dispute in Paypal for an item they have not received or because it is not as described then this has to be done within 45 days, My account has been frozen for almost 6 weeks so it's gone past that anyway so no disputes can be done.

 

My account is still open as i can still log in and access it but as you can see i have received confirmation that Paypal want to part ways with me.

[Toulose LeDebt]

Thing is though if someone wants to open a dispute in Paypal for an item they have not received or because it is not as described then this has to be done within 45 days, My account has been frozen for almost 6 weeks so it's gone past that anyway so no disputes can be done.

 

Exactly so the last 135 days of the period are unneccesarily penal unless the amount of money held was paid by a credit card transaction(s).

[tspkm]

Surely that should make my case stronger, Also Paypal won't be able to provide documented legal evidence that i done anything suspicious or high risk on the account because this is complete and utter rubbish.

 

No doubt Paypal will defend the claim and make something up to try and get out of it.

 

Do you think i have some good evidence to use against them?

[buzby]

Anyone can take anyone to court. You pay yout money and off it goes. The question should be, can I be successful in enforcing a court judgement? If the answer to that it 'no' it remains a pointless waste of money, regardless of the outcome of the action.

 

I had 2 firms (several years ago) attempt to raise an action in the English Courts. I got both dismissed as incompetent as they were outwith their jurisdiction.

[tspkm]

Well Buzby surely when as Toulose LeDebt says the extra 135 days are a penalty and is wrong! also witholding my money is wrong, surely it is unlawful?

Also as Paypal have confirmed that wish to part ways i would have thought that this would mean that my funds would have to be released to me immediately?

 

If Paypal defend the claim what happens next? Do i get the chance to send in any evidence that i can use against them?

[tspkm]

Also is there anyway that the FOS can force Paypal to release the funds? As i have got them on Paypal's back as well & I complained to the Commission De Surveillance Du Secteur Financier too.

[phils2309]

Sadly not as it is shown in thier T & C's at 10. Your Liability – Actions We May Take (@f) ..... 180 days the wording "may" is used very loosley. If like myself they have closed (frozen) your account it is normally on the grounds that you posed a risk and will be set out in Paypals originating email to you with it up to PayPal to convince the Court with evidence that you did and if you did'nt they have no chance of defending your claim. Once a Defence has been filed you will then be sent an Allocation Questionnaire and once a hearing has been set you will then be ordered by the Court to lodge documents (with the Court and Paypal) that you wish to rely upon 14 days before the hearing date which will be your opportunity to include all documents ie emails etc. You can on the day of the hearing request the court interest if your claim is succesful on the sum of the amount claimed. You can also if you want to do so before the hearing also lodge under the heading "Further and Better Particulars" with the Court additional documents in support of your claim. Hope this helps

 

The question i need answering more than anything is as Paypal have informed me that they wish to end our relationship, therefore this would be ending the agreement then surely they have no right to hold onto my money for 180 days and should release it immediately?

 

Also i presume i will get the chance to send in all my emails as evidence at some point?

[middenmess]

The 180 days is because they will refund money to a buyer if within that period the buyer claims that the use of their credit card funded purchase was unauthorised.

Paypal would immediately refund the money to the buyer-no ifs or buts and I beleive that they would then charge you a £9 fee for doing so.

 

I'm having a 'discussion' with barclaycard at the moment about 2 instances of fraudulent/unauthorised use of my barclaycard online.

One they've refunded but refused the other because ''it is more than 90 days old''--- so where do paypal pluck their 180 day limit from?

[tspkm]

Paypal make up their own rules, I really hope they get shown up for what they are but they always seem to worm their way out of things so i wouldn't be surprised if they got out of this one.