Is there a Justice for a Normal hardworking person?

[Hussy786]

Hi All

 

I am debit sank person and need help and advice and was advised by senior Forum members to start my won Thread so My Case related advice can be given.

First A short back ground I have taken out a credit card about 10 year ago and used it for emergiencies (car Breakdown Unexpected bills etc) as I have always been in low paid jobs. My Bank (Barclays) was also very kind to give me overdraft of 300 then500 and then £920 .

Cut the long story short as my income was lower than my necessities (believe me just know the word luxury never had it ) these debits kept mounting late payments charges overdraft failed payments you name it i had it all.

Now I have debits spiraling up to 27K with MBNA and Cap one 10k a piece

 

I have sent them CCA request yesterday and deadline expires on 24.07.09.

Meanwhile they are offering me Agreement Plan with frozen interest no further charges etc.

If I take the plan can i still screw them for unenforceable credit (too early to say as CCA still need to arrive and examined)

If I take settlement plan I cannot claim Unfair charges Fees noclaim against MBNA (mbna advisor said)

Is this true

I will keep you all updated as I need help and I am sure with your help I will have a new life as For last 3 years I have sleepless nights and so many times thought to kill myself.

I also have diabeties now always done two Jobs but never ever had Plus balance in My account

Help please

[dx100uk]

hey life can be a pig.

 

thats what we're here for.

 

yep, CCA is the first step, lets see where you stand, then p'haps get all the statements togther and get the charges reclaim.

 

oh and dont phone the muppets at MBNA or infact anyone by phone at all, do it in wtiting only, they tell LIES as you have already found out.

 

don't fret about the likes of MBNA or CAp1, the important things are counciltax/rent/food etc

IF you have any money left,, then you pay the lowlevel leeches!

 

dx

[Hussy786]

Hi Dx100uk

Thank you for your reply. To be honest since i found out this forum and helping people like yourself i have a new leaf of life and looking forforward a great help from you.

To be honest My disposable income is negative as well and that is why these debits have gone so high (all Bl***** charges) etc .

I have probably paid them twice the actual amount i have borrowed from them cos my miimum payments have been 200to 300 quid a month and my current statemnt from MBNA shows interset alone as £198.86 (34.9%)

I just had a call from cap one (6th today) and they aresending me expenditure/income form (this is going for last 10 days ) and I have spoken to 50 Indians already but they dont understand and i went mad and told one that this is harassment now as i have told you and waiting for paperwork I record these calls and make a compaint and he said Sir you know you cannot record calls

I said well I bloody can and I will and then he hung up on me lol

 

Any advice will always be appreciated

[dx100uk]

simple dont answer them

fire off the telephone harrassment letter too.

just refuse to go thru the security checks

they'll get the msg.

 

just keep cool and don't use the phone to discuss matters.

 

as for the IN/OUT sheets, ignore them. they have NO RIGHT whatsoever to have this info.

it's your money YOU control it.

 

you prob have already, but pop to the cap1 and MBNA forums and do some reading

re you read the stronger you become.

 

now, do you have all you statements? if not you are going to need them.

 

looks like you could be getting quite a bit knocked off your balances here if what you say is true.

 

dx

[Hussy786]

Hi Dx

 

Thank you for your reply again. So I should not fill in credit?expenditure form.

Based on CCA outcome then i need to wait till 24.07.09.

Yes I am truely honest I did not borrow that much and probably have paid them actual amount already.

Thank you for your continued guidance am really grateful .

[dx100uk]

no way

tell 'em to b*gger off

nothing to do with them.

 

dx

[cerberusalert]

Once you have your CCA request back and they can be looked at to see whether they are enforceable or not we'll help you go about reclaiming all the unfair charges they've been adding to your a/cs.

[The GodMother]

This is the basic telephone harrassement letter

 

Dear Sirs

 

I am writing in relation to the quantity and frequency of telephone calls that I have received from your company, which I deem to be personally harassing.

 

I have verbally requested that these stop, but I am still receiving calls.

I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only.

 

I am of the view that your continued harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

 

Be advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

this is the basic no doorstop callers letter

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so, then you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

 

I generally combine the 2 in the same letter.

[Hussy786]

Thank You so Much cerberusalert and The god mother

 

I am so grateful for your help. At the moment I am waiting For CCA (deadline finishes on 24.07.09) .

I have received income/expenditure forms from MBNA and Capital One so they can put me on Arrangment.

I was advised here not to bother with that as yet. Yesterday I received 3 calls from Capital one From indian call centre(indians bloody work on sundays too ) I refused to confirm my personal details date of birth etc and told them I have spoken to you in details alreday have made three £10 token payments in one month alone as they keep ringing me.and when i said o them that i have made three £10 token payments they said token payments are not supposed to be once a month i can make token payment everyweek (That cannot be true or is it/??)

MBNA threatend to pass the account to DCA and when i told the guy that you be selling my account to DCA for 4p why not get a tenner or even £100 from me rather than selling it for 4p and he said i caanot answer this question sir,

Any Thoughts while I am waiting for CCA s

Best Regards

[dpick]

Hi when they phone you just keep repeating "I will only communicate with you by letter" I had to do this with both MBNA and crapone, lasted about 6 weeks then the calls stopped when they realised I was not going to give in. It is hard at first but just start listening to the call monkeys starting to get mad they only get a small wage + comission on payments they get.

 

dpick

[Hussy786]

Hi Dpick

Thank you for valuable information. If some DCA Takes over my Debit same rules will apply for them????????/

Capital one has called me 3 times already this morning I simply did not pick the phone as I am at work lol

[The GodMother]

if that does not work pretent to be ur own legal advisor. It eventually worked with C1.

 

They were given plenty of opertunity to stop harrassing had 3 letters which included a first second and final warning then LBA then 7 days later i sent court papers.

 

Of course they denied everything but hey they would.

 

They even claimed to have taken my number off there system but with india still calling me and my CPR request in they folded a week b4 the N244 hering saying ok we pay be without admitting liabliltiy. Which to me was htem admitting liability.

[Hussy786]

Hi The Godmother

Thank you for your help. They are just phoning and On other day I have said I am going to record these calls and they hung up.

They have sent me expenditure/income form shall i fill in?????//

The CCA request has been made to them and deadline is 24.07.09.

I have not sent that by recorded delivery but got a receipt of PO and proof of posting with their address on it Is it sufficent?

[dx100uk]

they have NO authority to be a party to your private financial affairs!

no tell to b*gger off.

 

as for the postage , well it proves you sent it atleast.

 

dx

[Hussy786]

Hi DX

 

Thank you for advsing me this again lol you really are encouraging but as I am not an educated person and English is my 5th language , I do get worried when they right threatning letters , Although I am making token payments to Cap 1 and MBNA but my credit file has changes every week.

Thank you

[The GodMother]

They can ask for u to fill and I/E out but they cant demand and refuse to accept ur on a low income if u dont.

 

The only person who can demand u do it is the judge if this came to court.

 

U can write a letter back advising them u will not be filling out the I/E form as they have no LEGAL rights to ask or demand that u supply the info.

[dx100uk]

Hi DX

 

Thank you for advsing me this again lol you really are encouraging but as I am not an educated person and English is my 5th language , I do get worried when they right threatning letters , Although I am making token payments to Cap 1 and MBNA but my credit file has changes every week.

Thank you

 

hey no sweat.

 

not long till the 27th!

 

oh and why do you think they are offering the agreement plan?

 

i'll tell you why, 'cause its a darn sight cheaper for THEM.

if will stop you from reclaiming!

 

get that claim going & hit 'em where it hurts.!!

 

dx

[Hussy786]

The God Mother

Thank you for your valuable advice I am so grateful for continued guidance and it has made me feel that i am not alone in this fight.

 

Dx

 

You are like a Boxing coach so encouraging and making me feel alive and brave

I am so grateful for all of you.

[sillygirl1]

CAP1 are still chasing me despite going to court and loosing, got another hearing in September wiith this lot now - going for harrassment and wasted costs. Thing is I never had their card in the first place!

 

On the other hand following the advice from this site can't get you into any more trouble, in fact had I known what I know now I would have been out of debt a lot earlier, and I have paid my debts off - none have been written off...

 

As far as the calls go why not answer them in a foreign language, keep repeating "I do not speak English" or "My grandmother has two wooden legs" and they soon give up. I use Japanese myself...

[Hussy786]

Hi Silly GIRL

 

:DAs far as the calls go why not answer them in a foreign language, keep repeating "I do not speak English" or "My grandmother has two wooden legs" and they soon give up. I use Japanese myself...

 

 

I even swore them in Indian but that did not work. lol

 

I am at work and my phone has tickeld( on a viberate of course at work )me 6 times already Today (4MBNA s 2 Cap1 calls)

 

I dont even bother to pick up now. MBNA even got sheffiled number so if you call that it goes to INdia.

They email me yesterday as well but when you reply back to email you get email thrown back to your face in 5 seconds as server says this email address dont exist ( are not they breaking the laws ? there free numbers cost fortunes from mobile as everyone not sitting at home these days to use land lines and if you managed to get home before 9pm or call there 24 hour service the call bound to go to India where you need to explain from scratch and speak so loud that neighbour would think how on earth this single bloke arguing with at midnight

[Hussy786]

Hi All

 

Just 2 days to go since CCA request deadline runs out. I have complete silence from MBNA and Cap 1 no phone calls nothing. is it good or it is silence before storm?

Although they are doing my Credit file as I receive alert from Experian every week.

They have received token payments and we are in negociation about debits so are they still allowed to paint my credit file?

If i am luck to go onto unenforced credit victory stand will they have to remove these from my credit file?

Any one please?

[vint1954]

Hi All

 

Just 2 days to go since CCA request deadline runs out. I have complete silence from MBNA and Cap 1 no phone calls nothing. is it good or it is silence before storm?

Although they are doing my Credit file as I receive alert from Experian every week.

They have received token payments and we are in negociation about debits so are they still allowed to paint my credit file?

If i am luck to go onto unenforced credit victory stand will they have to remove these from my credit file?

Any one please?

Hi,

 

You have been getting good advice.

 

I take it that you have now sent the dispute letter to both CCC's.

[Hussy786]

HI Vint1954

 

I am about to send them But MBNA called yesterday and they say they are allowed 21 days to respond first they say they have not recived and then they said they received the request on 20th July (I sent on 10th) and MBNA chap said from the date we receive then 21 days and then goes our deadlin expires on 31st July/ (20th July to 31 July =21 days ....MBNA counting ).

Cap 1 said they cannot find the account number of mine in their system and i was asked to cntact ASAP.

(They sending me statments for last 7 years cannot they find my account number using my address and postcode? )

Well Both ringing me and asking me to enter into some agreement (65quid a month with no interest charges and other charges)

Both are pushing me to enter into agreement.

What you please advise i got the feeling that the want to trap me in that agreement . at the moment I am resisting. sometime they are assertive but try to pretend friendly and helpful.

I am terribly confused , Are they both bluffing as i cannot remember anything been signed by me.

They threatening DCAs CCJS etc.

Please advise?

shall i request SAR as well?

 

Waiting

[vint1954]

HI Vint1954

 

I am about to send them But MBNA called yesterday and they say they are allowed 21 days to respond first they say they have not recived and then they said they received the request on 20th July (I sent on 10th) and MBNA chap said from the date we receive then 21 days and then goes our deadlin expires on 31st July/ (20th July to 31 July =21 days ....MBNA counting ).

 

Total Rubbish. They are allowed 12 working days + 2 days for postage. They do try it on. Did you send it recorded delivery? Thier time is up tomorrow.

Cap 1 said they cannot find the account number of mine in their system and i was asked to cntact ASAP.

(They sending me statments for last 7 years cannot they find my account number using my address and postcode? )

Well Both ringing me and asking me to enter into some agreement (65quid a month with no interest charges and other charges)

Both are pushing me to enter into agreement.

 

Do not talk to them over the phone.

What you please advise i got the feeling that the want to trap me in that agreement . at the moment I am resisting. sometime they are assertive but try to pretend friendly and helpful.

I am terribly confused , Are they both bluffing as i cannot remember anything been signed by me.

They threatening DCAs CCJS etc.

 

They will. Read through some of the MBNA therads

DONT PANIC.

Please advise?

shall i request SAR as well?

 

Waiting

Next step is to send a letter of account in dispute to both CCC's.

 

Send this one, First Class post, recorded and signed for.

 

MBNA Europe Bank Limited

P.O. Box 1004

Chester Business Park

Wrexham Road

Chester

CH4 9WW

Account in formal dispute.

xxxxxxxxxx 2009.

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

Further to my request under the above act, your attention is drawn to the fact that this account is subject to a serious dispute. On 10th July 2009, by recorded delivery, I requested that you supply me a copy of the executed credit agreement covering this account pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 78, a copy of this request is enclosed. To date you have failed to comply with my request. Without production of the said agreement I am unable to assess if I am indeed liable for any alleged debt to you, nor does it give me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’ as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

For the avoidance of any doubt I have included section 78(1) and 78(6) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which states…

 

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing ( 12 working days + 2 ) to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

(a) the state of the account, and

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

 

Clearly as no agreement has been supplied on request, you have not complied with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and I now draw your attention to section 78 subsection 6 which states If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

 

Clearly this is a situation as described in S.78(6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the debt is unenforceable at this time. In addition, I draw your attention to section 127 (3) Consumer Credit Act 1974 which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the consumer credit act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

To clarify S.61(1) states

 

(1)A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

 

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

© The document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible

 

In addition the prescribed terms referred to in section 60 CCA1974 are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following—

 

1.Number of repayments;

2.Amount of repayments;

3.Frequency and timing of repayments;

4.Dates of repayments;

5.The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable

 

Therefore based upon the Consumer Credit Act 1974 this debt as it stands is unenforceable and should this proceed to litigation, a court is precluded from making an enforcement order under section 127(3) unless a true copy of the signed agreement is produced..

 

At the point where this account entered into the default situation as described in s78 (6) CCA 1974 no other charges are allowed to be added until such time as you become compliant with my request. As you are still not in compliance with my request I insist that the following takes place with immediate effect.

 

All entries which refer to missed payments be removed from my credit file

All collection activities cease with immediate effect until you comply with my request from 10th July 2009 or such time as a court makes an enforcement order.

In addition, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on Debt Collection

 

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

 

What I Require.

 

I require that you send me a true signed copy of the executed agreement as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you are unable to supply the requested documentation because no such agreement is in existence I require written clarification as such.

 

I require that you comply with my request within 7 days of the date of this letter. I will not correspond any further with you until I either receive a copy of the requested documents as laid down in section 78(1) CCA 74 or clarification that such agreement doesn’t exist. I am advised that should you persist in pursuing this debt ignoring the above information you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well

 

No other correspondence will be accepted

 

Should you attempt litigation it will be vigorously defended and the failure to supply documentation under the CCA 1974 is a complete defence to any legal action and your actions will be vexatious and unlawful.

Please also be aware, that I will now only communicate in writing. Do not contact me by telephone.

 

I trust this out lines the situation

Yours faithfully

[Coactum]

Good advice from vint1954 but from my experience they will continue to phone despite your insistence they write. When they do be assertive and decline to discuss the matter. Don’t get angry or abusive. In the main it is a machine that dials the number and if they cannot mark up that they have spoken to you then the machine just dials again and again! By answering the call and stating something like “I have told your company more that once that I want all communications to be in writing. I think this is best for both of us to know what is in dispute and for each to know what the other must do to resolve that dispute. I am therefore terminating this call and invite you to write to me and I’ll answer as quickly as possible.”