Halifax and wifes loan - Agree Section 78 Write Off **won**

[GARY68]

Hi all started a thread for the wifes account so I could ask any questions along the way and to help anyone in similar situation,

sent cca request 23rd feb

account in dispute letter 9th march

receieve seperate terms/conditions sheets

then this for aggreement-nothing else(no application form)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Below is the letter I sent regarding the letter(agreement) they have sent to me. sent 5thMay

Card Services

Pitreavie Buisiness Park

Dunfermaline

Fife

KY99 4BS

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

5TH MAY 2009

 

Dear sir/madam

 

Thank you for your letter dated 24th APRIL 2009 (which I received 30THAPRIL)

 

This account has been in dispute since 6th MARCH 2009 after you have failed to respond to my request under consumer credit Act section 78,

 

To date executed agreement has not been supplied to me and whilst I appreciate Halifax has endeavoured to persuade me that provision of a copy of a standard terms and condition letter is sufficient to discharge you from further obligations under section 78 of the Act,

 

Likewise I too have explained that a mere copy of these are not a legally permisable substitute for the provision of a true copy of the executed agreement as required under section 78 as prescribed by regulation 3 consumer credit act(cancellation Notices and copies of Documents) regulation 1983

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in DISPUTE.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

You have Disregarded and ignored any of my requests and issued a Default and are threatening to pass this account to a third party

 

This clearly goes against OFT rules on accounts in dispute.

I will be making a complaint to the OFT and Trading standards about your debt collecting activities,

Halifax clearly have not done enough to resolve this situation and After threats of court action ,

Please be aware I will vigorously contest and counter claim any action,

Please also be aware that I too will instruct court action on Halifax under civil protocol rule 31.16 and 31.14.

 

 

As you must realise this agreement does not conform to sections 60(1) and 61(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and would therefore only be enforceable by a court under s65. However, the absence of any prescribed terms means that a court would be prevented from enforcing it under s127(3).

 

" The court's powers under section 127(1) are subject to significant qualification in two types of cases. The first type is where section 61(1)(a), regarding signing of agreements, is not complied with. In such cases the court 'shall not make' an enforcement order unless a document, whether or not in the prescribed form, containing all the prescribed terms, was signed by the debtor: section 127(3). Thus, signature of a document containing all the prescribed terms is an essential prerequisite to the court's power to make an enforcement order."

Unless you can produce a copy of an executable agreement within 21 days I will consider that the above account is now closed and that you will not pursue the alleged debt.

 

Should you fail to respond within 21 days, I will expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’. You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

 

Your telephone calls are in breach of the Office of Fair Trading guidelines. If you continue with them after the receipt of this letter an official complaint, together with a log recording the times and frequency of the calls will be passed both to that office and to the Trading Standards office. For your information note that ALL telephone calls are taped.

 

This type of debt collection method is contrary to the ‘Administration of Justice Act 1970’ in that it is intended to cause alarm and distress to the recipient. Your methods will not be tolerated. A formal complaint, containing copies of all correspondence including yours, may be submitted to the relevant authorities. This will be relevant to questions of your fitness to hold a licence under the Consumer Credit Act, whether or not it results in a prosecution.

 

Take further note that continued telephone calls after the receipt of a request not to call may constitute a criminal offence under Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003.

 

Communicate in writing and ONLY in writing, your telephone calls will NOT be answered.

 

HOWEVER, CALLS WILL TRIGGER COMPLAINTS TO THE REGULATORY BODIES.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

recieved this back today in reply to above

 

 

 

any one have a nice letter to reply with for the above,as they are standing by their obligations.

This account was opened in 2002 and the scetion amendments wouldnt count,would they:D

[GARY68]

Hi all

anyone point me in the right direction for a reply letter to the last letter received.

this agreement was 2002 and they are quoting 1983/1553 as amended

thanks

Gary

[GARY68]

Hi all

just to let you all know,that the dispute letters,avoiding debt collection agencys and persistant letters of complaint actually "pay off"

 

Disputed the account for the wife after no enforcable agreement arrived ,

application form,standard terms/conditions,

 

today received this

 

 

[postggj]

well done

 

they can manufacture all the agreements that they want, but with out the original

 

 

priceless

 

hbos have a problem with agreements

they lost mine also

[middenmess]

We would all like to receive that sort of letter!!

 

Roughly how much have they written off?

[postggj]

now now

 

thats a bit personel

 

if he did it

if i did it

we all can

[GARY68]

This is what the game is all about, it shouldnt be how much each person gets wrote off its about the end result and how much does it cost them to keep chasing you and if you put your case across well and they know that they would never get there money,

may be the thinking has changed:)

 

since you ask this was was just short of a grand:D

[middenmess]

Hi gary--I know that it was somewhat rude to ask the amount but I was interested to find out if the OC had a set criteria or limit at which they would pursue or write off.

 

I have read scores of threads and it seems that it really is hit or miss with creditors and not really related to how much or how little they are chasing.

 

I'm assuming that they probably liaise with other lending institutes to work out an individual's total indebtedness and then possibly have a commission arrangement with them if they recover any monies.

[pompeyfaith]

hiya gary i will be taking on the halifax shortly perhaps u could help me with it PF

[GARY68]

Hi gary--I know that it was somewhat rude to ask the amount but I was interested to find out if the OC had a set criteria or limit at which they would pursue or write off.

 

I have read scores of threads and it seems that it really is hit or miss with creditors and not really related to how much or how little they are chasing.

 

I'm assuming that they probably liaise with other lending institutes to work out an individual's total indebtedness and then possibly have a commission arrangement with them if they recover any monies.

 

Hey no problem mm

I agree this can be as they say not financial viable on most debts to chase and may well let go and as mine are much higher,on this particular win I will be putting this down still as victory:D

again as they state , they know this wouldnt stand up in court and for the many people out there with debts of less than a grand this is great news and lets hope they have the same result;)

[GARY68]

hiya gary i will be taking on the halifax shortly perhaps u could help me with it PF

 

you can count on that matey-I owe you a couple

[GARY68]

xxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxx

xxxxxxx

HALIFAX

PO BOX 718

LEEDS

LS1 9GB

xxxxxxx2009

COMPLAINT REFRENCE: xxxxxxxxx

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Dear xxxxxxxx

 

Thank you for your letter dated xxxxxxxxx this account remains in dispute and I have raised some points in answer to your letter,

Your version of executed agreements and mine differ greatly as you seem to be relying on the amended regulations 1983 (s1 1983/1553).As I am sure you are aware this agreement was 2002.

After reviewing the documentation sent in response to my cca request re:Section 78 request for information relating to the above account and after Legal Advice I note what you have supplied may, or may not, comply with Section 78 of the CCA1974 but in what you have supplied you have failed to produce a document signed myself that contains the prescribed terms as per section 61(a) and section 127(3) of the CCA 1974.

 

I am also aware that there are certain terms that are required to be within the “Agreement” and should these terms be mis-stated or not present within the Original documentation then agreement can be rendered irredeemably unenforceable in law and I therefore refer you to the following of which, as a large financial organisation, I am sure you are fully aware of, If not please let me help you:

 

s61(a) CCA - Signing of agreement:

(1) A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

© the document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible.

s127(3) CCA:

(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

I understand that section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 sets out clearly what is required to comply with my request and quote “shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it” For clarification I require a copy of the agreement, any terms and conditions from the time when the agreement was executed together with a copy of current terms and conditions and a copy of the cancellation notice if the agreement refers to “Your Right to Cancel” within it. I also require a statement of account as laid out also within Section 78(1). If there weren’t any terms and conditions then please confirm this in your response

 

I am aware that the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557) at Regulation 3 allows the Signature box and signature to be omitted in a copy document but the copy document must contain all the terms of the agreement contained within the signed executed original document

 

In light of the above I respectfully request that you provide a copy of the original agreement signed by myself that you hold on file and while I accept that you can omit the signature box for the purposes of compliance with my request, you will be aware that any challenge to the agreement in court would require the signed copy of the original agreement. If you still reject this, please provide clarification on the status of the Original Credit Agreement and confirm either that you hold the original signed agreement on file or a copy of it on microfiche or that you no longer hold the file.

 

 

Just to be certain your clear on your point raised in your previous letter ”about the consumer credit act 1974 does not prohibit collection activity when a account is in dispute”

I have never mentioned this and you must be referring to the OFT debt guidelines which as I large company such as the Halifax should realise they clearly state the rules on collection activities on disputed accounts as my last letter.

Again the lack of a credit agreement means there is a very clear dispute

I look forward to receiving the documentation requested.

Yours sincerely

xxxxxxxxxxx

Please note I have requested all communication in writing only and I have no reason to answer the telephone because of this request, threats of door step callers from a third party collector will have serious implications for the Halifax with my report to the OFT and Trading standards regarding this activity and a letter has gone out to retail collection address at the Halifax advising on this.

[GARY68]

hope that helps

[London000]

Hi all

just to let you all know,that the dispute letters,avoiding debt collection agencys and persistant letters of complaint actually "pay off"

 

Disputed the account for the wife after no enforcable agreement arrived ,

application form,standard terms/conditions,

 

today received this

 

 

 

Hi there,

 

I would like to congratulate you for your achievment!!!

Wow that is one of the best news I heard in the last few years.

Good luck FOR THE FUTURE AND STAY OUT OF BANKS!!!

DD:lol:

[London000]

Hi all

just to let you all know,that the dispute letters,avoiding debt collection agencys and persistant letters of complaint actually "pay off"

 

Disputed the account for the wife after no enforcable agreement arrived ,

application form,standard terms/conditions,

 

today received this

 

 

 

Hi there again,

I am enjoying your achievment again....

DD

Edited July 11, 2009 by London000

[Its WAR]

Are you suggesting we all write to halifax for a signed cca in the hope they cant oblige, and then pursue a write off of our credit card debts? and the same for other credit card companys. Sounds good to me, especially if the credit card is donkeys years old. But is this really the case?

[angel_1]

hiya gary

 

came across this thread from lexis200 own bos thread so am subbing so i can learn some more stuff many thanks for the link by london000 and of course lexis that helped along the way from their thread

 

will be back once ive read the thread and well fab to you - i wonder if it would work if all that their other team bos,,only had an application form,,,hmme catch up soon

 

have a sunny day laters angel x:-)

[lexis200]

Hi Gary

 

Excellent outcome, I'm really chuffed for you:)

 

Mine's been going on for over a year now, and sadly I had that exact same letter some months ago, with the minor exception of the write-off offer:rolleyes:

[pompeyfaith]

well it seems apart from other things like legality of agreement it is all down to the size of the balance and costing that against all the recovery costs to them

[GARY68]

To be honest I found the Halifax quite easy,

 

I have ppi claim from credit card 1-upheld and wiped out the card + cash over:D

I have ppi claim from credit card 2-just upheld and waiting for wipe out of card + cash over:D(this week)

I have ppi claim for old loan-upheld just payed back a tidy sum.

waiting for 2 court claims for charges;)

 

I think as PF has said they may be thinking whats the point on this card for cost and legalities and at the end of the day,they are trying to keep there customer reputation,

 

I have found them to be quite customer aware on most occations,I know many wont agree but if you consider them to Lloyds/crap one etc...this maybe to the fact they are promoting there customer service in commercials to be honest,

I suppose its easy to say the above because I have had so many victorys against them and I know other people are still fighting on, just my opinion

good luck to everyone else

[lexis200]

I think they made a clerical error when meting out the aggro, and all yours got passed onto me:D;)

[postggj]

at leaste people are getting correspondants from hbos

 

my battle lasted eight months of pure dig in your heals stuff

 

in the end i just got an equifax allert

default and account history gone

no letter, nothing

 

to be honest, default gone was good enough for me

[GARY68]

at leaste people are getting correspondants from hbos

 

my battle lasted eight months of pure dig in your heals stuff

 

in the end i just got an equifax allert

default and account history gone

no letter, nothing

 

to be honest, default gone was good enough for me

 

HI POSTGGJ

Thats a good about the default,did they clear the account too

[postggj]

yep nothing on account history or default

account deleated,gone, finito

 

it was an aqua card issued by hbos

[citizenB]

I think they made a clerical error when meting out the aggro, and all yours got passed onto me:D;)

 

And me..

 

This is excellent news Gary.

 

However if anyone should have charitable thoughts in respect of Halifax.. read what they put this poor woman through before they finally decided to let her spend what time she had left with her family WITHOUT the continued harrassment.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/138991-disabled-scared-owe-20k.html