LLOYDS BUSINESS-PERSONAL Accounts SAR

[kurvaface]

Hi there and thanks for having a look. I really appreciate any advice given.

 

I have a few business accounts with lloyds and I do my personal banking with them too.

 

Recently the bank has removed our very friendly personal manager and replaced him with some automaton from a call center in Birmingham because our turn over for each business isn't high enough to merit face to face contact with an individual manager. Since then, the bank has made cock-up after cock-up resulting in no end of inconvenience to us.

 

I intend to do a subject access request to see what information the bank holds on me and to try and establish why they are providing such a very bad service. My personal account has always been linked to my business accounts in terms of decisions made about overdrafts, credit cards etc.... even the type of personal account I have is a consequence of my business accounts.

 

In discussions with the bank about SARs, they have said they do not have to provide transcripts of calls to their call center because the calls are recorded against an employee's name for training purposes rather than my name. It is not unusual for us to ring the bank and discuss both business and personal matters in the same call. They do say they record all calls. They also said SARs are not applicable to LTD companies.

 

My Questions are:

 

1) Are SAR s different for LTD company accounts compared to personal accounts? If so, what is the process by which I can establish what data the bank holds on me in relation to my businesses?

2) If I do a SAR in my name, will it throw up all the business information or will I have to do seperate requests for each of the businesses?

3) Will a SAR provide transcripts of phone calls?

4) Is there any information they do not have to provide for a SAR?

5) Can they get out of providing telephone transcripts?

6) If they fail to provide the information, what options do I have and what sanctions can I seek?

 

Many thanks

 

KURV

Edited July 10, 2009 by kurvaface

[MARTIN3030]

Are your accounts all Limited ?

A subject access request in your name should include all account numbers you want info on.

They can refuse a request that is not specific-so you need to state what you want ie statements and a telephone call log/screenshots etc.

 

There is some information they do not have to provide for example anything that is covered under Fraud terms.

They can also refuse if it requires dissproportionate effort.

In any event they should explain clearly the reasons for any non compliance.

 

If you require transcripts of phone calls you need to give dates.If you dont know the dates-then one way around this is to ask for the call logs to find the dates/times and then apply for these later.

 

Your recourse for their non compliance can include a complaint to the information commissioner and /or a county court order to force compliance.

[kurvaface]

All the business accounts are limited and I have a private current account and savings account.

 

On the one hand the bank says our private affairs are a completely seperate entity to the business accounts and therefore a SAR will only cover them, yet on the other hand they say for example that automated risk decisions on the business accounts are inpart influenced by the performance of our personal accounts and they all share the same team of managers and quite often I will discuss personal and business matters in the same call.

 

All the accounts are in my view inextricably linked and I have a feeling that it would be impossible to tease out all the Data that is solely private. I would like to avoid the situation where the bank says, "This is business data so we don't have to provide it".

 

Should the call log be part of the SAR?

[MARTIN3030]

Yes you can ask for a log of calls by date and time.

They are not obliged to supply anything that you dont specifically ask for.

For example disproportionate effort effort could be cited by them if you said....I want call history from 2007.

You need to be specific.

You should state that if they are unable to provide XXX then you want to know why.

[kurvaface]

Thanks very much Martin.

[MARTIN3030]

No problem.Keep us posted and feel free to ask if you need any further info.

[kurvaface]

Will do:)

[kurvaface]

Subject access request was delivered to my local branch and they gave me a reciept for it.

 

I am really interested to see what they include in the info. Roll on early September:)

[MARTIN3030]

Well done.

[kurvaface]

Ok

 

My DSAR came back on the 41st day and was dumped on my doorstep. When I phoned the bank to complain they checked and said that for some reason they didn't have a signature... not their problem and to take it up with the post office!!!

 

The data seems to be incomplete. There is no record of all the phone calls I made to their business center about my personal banking and there are several instances where reference is made to the business accounts without additional explanatory information being provided.

 

They say that they do not have to provide any data that falls under business banking but I have not recieved the personal data for my personal accounts that is used by, for example, my business account manager.

 

What next?

[kurvaface]

bump

[kurvaface]

The bank says they have all the transcripts of my calls but as yet they have not provided them to me. I get the occasional phone call saying they are working on getting them onto a disk to send to me but because of "Operational" reasons it is taking time.

 

In the context of all the other little excuses I've had to take from the bank I have to say I don't believe them.

 

What can I do to get this moving along now as it has been six months since I did the DSAR?

[kurvaface]

OK..It's been a while since I posted on this thread and although I set out with a plan of how I would deal with Lloyds here (Basically to waste more of their time than they had of mine), I have had a totally unexpected and suprising outcome to all this which I believe is reproduceable.

 

Background

My original gripe was the way in which our business accounts were arbitrarily put under a call center based team in Birmingham who had no experience of my business and who quite frankly I thought were a bunch of uneducated spivs. My question to the bank was, "What had I been paying for?" This led to me doing the DSAR etc from which we still await data. I didn't mention above that one of the "Perks" of business banking is a cheap or free current account overdraft so we used £900. We also had a cheap loan from this current account. When we shifted our banking elsewhere, we kept this account with the overdraft to service the loan, however, when we decided to service the loan from our new bank, lloyds had a hissy fit and set their vile Hove collections team on us without warning for the overdraft. This is where all the fun started because there is no one more stupid than them. (In my opinion)

 

Theory

LLoyds will pay off a customer who is eating the bank's resources repeatedly complaining rather than saying "Sorry".

 

Method

As above, primarily to waste as much of the banks time and resources as possible.

1) Communicate by as many means as possible: Phone, Fax, In branch, by letter, by recorded delivery etc.

2) Complain about every mistake / contradiction of the bank's - however small or tedious - I mean everything.

3) Get a seperate log number for each individual complaint.

4) Insist on a call back or a response in writing.

5) Keep detailed records, names, id numbers, times, letters, dates, reference numbers, call log numbers, record all calls - I used my ipod

6) Complain to differnet departments: collections, in branch, the DSAR team, customer recovery etc

7) Record calls and let them know you are doing it - even at some point play back previous calls to them lol.

8) Be persistent and keep your complaint in the bank ie leave the FOS out of it until you've finished.

9) If you ring on the 084530000000 number, do not enter your details on the automated system, opt for "I do not have my details" - this prevents your call being hived off to the, "Fob off" department.

 

What will happen

1) They do not call back when they say they will.

2) They will lie!

3) They will back date letters to look like they are repsonding in good time. I had 2 complaint responses back dated to a date before I even raised the complaints!!

4) They will pass you from pillar to post, but as long as you record this it is evidence of their bad practice - they put you through to their indian call center and although it is exceedingly frustrating, it is positively fruitful in terms of generating further complaints because of their utter incompetence.

5) They will try to stop you in your tracks - someone supposedly senior will write to you saying, "This is my final response. If you are not happy with it please contact the FOS." (Ignore)

5) They will commit serious errors and breaches - They often wrote to me about my wife's complaints and to her about mine!

6) They will hang up the phone when they realise you have them rumbled.

7) In branch, the branch manager will not be able to make head or tale of what's happening and often becomes critical of the departments you've had to deal with. (Great when recorded )

8) They will increasingly seem like they are chasing their own tail.

 

How it works

Lloyds bank is similar to the human inner ear in this respect; when you spin it one way and then the other it gets dizzy or even produces nausea. By repeatedly submitting different detailed complaints to different parts of the bank it becomes disoriented with regard to your account and starts to make mistakes which are grounds for further complaints.

 

Result

LLoyds paid over £900 into our account to settle it (never asked them to do that!!!)

 

Conclusions

Because of lloyds' institutional and structural disarray, it is unable to digest any customer situation that is outside the normal customer profile parameters. Its shockingly poor internal communications and weak management produce cock up after cock up after cock up. It appears that an apology from Lloyds is worth more than £900. and they find it easier to pay you off than to use resources genuinely researching and resolving your complaint.

 

Further research

As yet, Lloyds has not provided any data relating to our loan under the DSAR. What is the price for that apology I wonder? I shall use the "Waste their time technique" to find out.

 

I'll keep you posted:-D

Edited January 12, 2011 by kurvaface
spelling

[leggoman]

EXCELLENT WORK!!!!

 

This ridiculous establishment manage to cock up so bad when answering a simple enquiry by the time they are finished its a full on escalated complaint where ultimately compensation does get paid. to be honest id rather a competent person answered the question accurately in the fist place and i could just get on with my life!!!!