being harrased by capital one

[mickmackpaddywack]

Hi all

 

i am looking for some advice/confirmation about what i should do about my Capital one account (i have exactly the same following problem with Vanquis too, do i do same for both of them?)

 

capital one account was opened in April 06

vanquis account was opened in September 07

 

as mentioned above, i have 2 card's... capitaL one & vanquis. until recently i had managed both of these cards fine. then along came the credit crunch & a 50% drop in my self employed income (no one using taxi's).

as a result of this drop in income, i have not been able to make any payments on either card for 3 months now.

i am also having problems with other debts including council tax and rent arrears, i have addressed the problems with council tax and rent first as they can mean jail and homelessness.

 

i have been receiving... correction ... been getting bombarded with phone calls from both companys, foolishly, i did speak to vanquis on one occasion and agreed to pay them £75 per month (usual minimum payment + £25) although i have NOT made the 1st of these £75 payments due last week. i simply cannot afford it and only agreed to making it under duress. but having read through many threads on here I am now wondering if either CCA is valid.

 

i think to avoid confusion i will do a seperate thread for vanquis if someone could point me in the right direction as to where to post it.

 

this thread i will look at capital one.

 

capital one are by far the most frequent callers to all 3 of my phone numbers (home, mobile & work) at one stage i was receiving 15 calls per day, however i have been refusing to answer their security questions and have never spoken to anyone at capital one about my account.

 

having read several threads about capital one i think i have a good idea how to proceed, i just wanted to confirm i was correct before proceeding.

 

my 1st step is to send off a CCA request with a £1 postal order and i DO NOT sign this, i also send it special delivery (so i can later prove it arrived if need be)

can you confirm this is right before i post it

 

Cheers

Mick

Edited July 10, 2009 by mickmackpaddywack

[kurvaface]

Sounds about right to me.

 

You can also send a letter (In the template section) asking that they cease phoning you because it is harassment and that they should contact you only in writing and if they fail to comply they risk complaints to OFT about unfair practice.

 

I hope you get this sorted out. Good luck.

[sam614]

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/52-harassment/135--harassment-by-telephone-response-letter

 

include this,good luck

 

SAM:pLOWELL DETESTER

[mickmackpaddywack]

thanks for the fast replys guys

i will send the telephone harrassment letter as well

Mick

[Turnaround]

Open your vanquis thread here

 

Debt Collection Industry - The Consumer Forums

[mickmackpaddywack]

Open your vanquis thread here

 

Debt Collection Industry - The Consumer Forums

 

 

thanks Turn

[laineynic]

I was in the same boat as you are. In total I was receiving between 5 - 10 calls a day which started from 8am in the morning.

 

I contacted my local MP as I was so distressed at the barrage of calls. He was very helpful and referred me firstly to the FSA - who recommended I contacted the FOS. My case is in the hands of the FOS.

 

I have received a ltter from Capital one who say they are disapointed that I have refferrred my complaint to the FOS. In reply to there appalling letter of "its is all my own fault for being in debt with them" I have told them that I will not be intimidated any further by there scare tactics. I have also advised them that all future correspondence is to be made by letter only and to call of the debt collectore FPC.

 

I would recommend to anyone to contact there MP and the FOS. Maybe if there are enough complaints made about there ways they will be reprimanded and stopped. who knows but you can only try. I konw my MP was very interested in my complaint.

[mickmackpaddywack]

hi again all

i have had a reply from capital one, and as expected it is the usual bulls**t. however i do not have a scanner to post it on here.

 

Dear mr *****

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER **** **** **** ****

 

thank you for your letter requesting copy documents for your account.

 

you requested copies of the executed credit agreement and a statement of your account under section 78 of the CCA 1974

 

please find enclosed a copy of your CA as requested...blah blah blah this is your original agreement... oh yeah ?

and it goes on as in many other threads.

 

enclosed with this letter is another letter titled "Terms of your capital one credit card agreement"

 

thank you for your request. please see overleaf for the current terms of your agreement with us.

for the rest of your terms and conditions, please see the leaflet enclosed...

 

on the reverse of this 2nd letter is the terms, however i note that in these terms the default sums are all £12

 

i do not believe these are the documents i requested from capital one as they are NOT a TRUE copy as requested. what would my next step be now? do i send the "Account in Dispute" letter?

cheers

Mick

[kurvaface]

account in dispute letter I think. I personally would let them know you are now contacting trading standards.

[mickmackpaddywack]

can anyone point me in the direction of a template for the account in dispute letter

cheers

mick

[diamondgirl]

can anyone point me in the direction of a template for the account in dispute letter

cheers

mick

 

As requested amend to suit

 

Account In Dispute

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Ref:

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me with a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

 

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on xxxxxx.

(12+2 days after you sent the CCA request – delete if necessary)

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation. This limit has expired (delete in necessary)

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement. Therefore, this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, failed to send a full statement of the account and failed to provide any of the documentation requested. Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS. Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends. If you not respond within 14 days I shall take it that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

 

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

 

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

 

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

 

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I therefore request a copy of your official complaints procedure which you are obliged to supply.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

A N Other

DG

[mickmackpaddywack]

thanks

you are a diamond

[mickmackpaddywack]

Hi again,

i have received 2 letters today, the 1st was from Capitol One and is a "statement of default" informing me that i am now in default and their agents will be contacting me shortly. and in the same post a letter from Debitas informing me that capital one have instucted them to collect the alleged debt.

i have drafted the following reply to Debitas...

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Date: **th August, 2009

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

Account number: ****************

Your reference ******

 

I am in receipt of your letter dated **/**/09

 

This account is in dispute and has been since **/**/**.

Capital One are well aware this dispute exists, and I am dismayed that they have chosen to ignore several laws and guidelines, and have passed this debt on to you

Not only is this a breach of the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 in line with the Office Of Fair Trading’s debt collection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998

 

My previous dispute from **/**/** has NOT been answered.

 

As Crapital one are now in default of my Consumer Credit Act request and have also breached *s10 Data Protection Act request , I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE.

 

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in dispute, enforcement action is NOT permitted; under s127 this constitutes a complete defense at law.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to Capital one for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as Debitas cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

 

If Debitas chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that any continued pursuit is in violation of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 in line with the Office of Fair Trading’s Collection Guidelines

 

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing

Yours faithfully

Any comments or thoughts before i post this reply

Cheers

Mick

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi Mick,

 

Debitas are Capone's in-house threat monkeys. They are totally incapable of reading and writing, although they do have a lot of titles - senior head of this, executive head of that, and so on. You can send your letter but don't wait for a reply answering any of the points you raise - you'll just get more standard template letters.

 

For those of us who have been around for a long time and seen them off they have gone very quiet. A whole group of us have written asking to visit their offices to see our agreements - we were planning a picnic - but, alas, they don't seem to want to fix a date.

 

Do join the official capital one fan club Just Recieved A Signed Capital One Agreement and you'll see that after sending a certain number of their template letters and threats, and failing to respond to our perfectly valid requests, they go very quiet.

 

I reported them to FOS earlier this year and I haven't heard a word since.

 

DD

[Desperate Daniella]

I assume referring to them as crapital one halfway down your letter was a genuine typo?!!

[diamondgirl]

Hi again,

i have received 2 letters today, the 1st was from Capitol One and is a "statement of default" informing me that i am now in default and their agents will be contacting me shortly. and in the same post a letter from Debitas informing me that capital one have instucted them to collect the alleged debt.

i have drafted the following reply to Debitas...

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Date: **th August, 2009

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

Account number: ****************

Your reference ******

 

I am in receipt of your letter dated **/**/09

 

This account is in dispute and has been since **/**/**.

Capital One are well aware this dispute exists, and I am dismayed that they have chosen to ignore several laws and guidelines, and have passed this debt on to you (full stop)

Not only is this a breach of the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 in line with the Office Of Fair Trading’s debt collection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998

 

My previous dispute from **/**/** has NOT been answered.

 

As Crapital (remove the r)one are now in default of my Consumer Credit Act request and have also breached *s10 Data Protection Act request , I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE.

 

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in dispute, enforcement action is NOT permitted; under s127 this constitutes a complete defense at law.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to Capital one for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as Debitas cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

 

If Debitas chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that any continued pursuit is in violation of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 in line with the Office of Fair Trading’s Collection Guidelines

 

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

(new para)I look forward to hearing from you in writing

Yours faithfully

Any comments or thoughts before i post this reply

Cheers

Mick

 

Just a few little tweeks see my notes in red, we must get it right. The letter is great lets knock em dead.

 

DG

Edited August 18, 2009 by diamondgirl
added to

[mickmackpaddywack]

hi again all,

i have had a response from capital one to my "harrasment by telephone" letter i sent them.

i imagine it is the same as many others,

"we have an obligation to contact you..."

"trying to speak to you to see why you have failed to bring account up to date...".

" sorry you feel these calls are harrasment as this was never our intention..." (ohh you little liar, the calls are intended to exactly that, intimidate me into paying back an unenforcable debt)

"we use an automatic telephone system..."."calls will continue until..." you submit. "once you have made a payment agreement the calls will stop"

"i can see that you have previously requested these to be stopped, however i can see that when you advised us that you where going on holiday recently the calls where stopped until ...." ehh??, i have never spoken to you so when did i mention a holiday i didnt go on?

"i feel we have complied with both the communications act and the administration of justice act"

" i also understand that you want us to contact you in writing only, well we wont be honouring that request unless you provide us with a valid reason"

"you've mentioned that you will record any further calls from our collections dept. please be aware if you have not gained the authority from the adviser, you will not be able to use these calls for any action you may wish to take" as a private citizen, i beg to differ

any further questions please write to me within the next 4 weeks or i will assume your complaint is closed

yours sincearly james bell head of executive response centre no less, im impressed... not

 

i am tempted to reply with a letter along the lines of "far from my complaint being closed, it is now in the hands of the OFT. Trading standards and ofcom"

Edited September 2, 2009 by mickmackpaddywack
unfinished

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi Mick,

 

Since I last posted I did hear from capone - not a reply, just to tell me they had sold me to Lowells. Phoned FOS immediately who are writing to both capone and Lowells.

 

DD

[colin21958]

Hi Mick,

 

Debitas are Capone's in-house threat monkeys. They are totally incapable of reading and writing, although they do have a lot of titles - senior head of this, executive head of that, and so on. You can send your letter but don't wait for a reply answering any of the points you raise - you'll just get more standard template letters.

 

For those of us who have been around for a long time and seen them off they have gone very quiet. A whole group of us have written asking to visit their offices to see our agreements - we were planning a picnic - but, alas, they don't seem to want to fix a date.

 

Do join the official capital one fan club Just Recieved A Signed Capital One Agreement and you'll see that after sending a certain number of their template letters and threats, and failing to respond to our perfectly valid requests, they go very quiet.

 

I reported them to FOS earlier this year and I haven't heard a word since.

 

DD

 

I clicked on the link to "join the club" but coudn't see where to go on that page; could someone please advise? Thanks.

 

I have two Capital One Cards which I have just started the process with, so I'd like to find out as much as I can about these jerks! I have received T & C's and ones which are clearly up to date ones, not relating to the account original terms at all (it shows default charges as £12, but for many years they were charging at least £20 on the account for these!). I am certain they are unenforceable and have written to tell them. Just waiting to see what they do next!

 

I also have many others to deal with! I started a thread at http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/215080-respones-cca-letters.html#post2366444, if anyone would like to take a look and see if they can contribute with answers to any of my questions. Thanks again.

 

Regards,

 

Colin.

[HomerJSimpson]

Hi again,

i have received 2 letters today, the 1st was from Capitol One and is a "statement of default" informing me that i am now in default and their agents will be contacting me shortly. and in the same post a letter from Debitas informing me that capital one have instucted them to collect the alleged debt.

 

 

Hi Mick, I received same letters from crap one informing me FTC were collecting ( or so they thought )

 

I sent FTC these........

 

Dear Sirs,

Thankyou for your threatogram that I received this morning. I am truly frightened by your letter and I therefore enclose

a cheque for the sum of £xxx.xx as payment in full. Would you like any additional sums for your inconvenience?

Reality Check

 

Unless Capital One have located a signed, correctly executed consumer credit agreement then I do not owe any

money.

I understand that you are a wholly owned subsiduary of Capital One and purport to be a seperate Debt Collection

company. I suggest that you put up or shut up. Take me to court and produce the non-existent agreement.

The lack of a compliant credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

* may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* may not pass the account to a third party.

* may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

Capital One have already breached the Banking Code and have been reported for such.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

HJS

 

 

and then....

 

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

This account is in Dispute .

On xx/xx/2009 I wrote to yourselves requesting that you or capital one supply me a true copy of the

executed credit agreement for this account.In response to this request I was supplied a mere application

form which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as

required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations

1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are,

I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say

none of the terms are present in the document.

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by

s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)

(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form

and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the

agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest

court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003]

All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the

Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I

draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection. The OFT guidance which

was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers

unfair, I refer to page 5 of the guidance which states;

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make

unjustified demands for payment.

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any

organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification

that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to

consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you

will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

Since the agreement is unenforceable and the default notice is non compliant, it would be in everyone’s

interest to consider the matter closed and for your client to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious

consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for

all quantifiable damages.

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days

I trust this out lines the situation.

 

HJS

 

 

and finally......

 

 

 

Dear Ms Hollis,

Thankyou for your letter dated xx xxxxxx 2009. Thankyou for sending me another copy of my capital one application

form. I now possess a number of these, all purporting to be credit agreements when clearly they are not. It matters not

one jot that capital one purport the application form to be a credit agreement.

The application form clearly states:

I authorise capital one to search the files of any credit reference agency agency for my application and to help you

manage my account. The credit reference agencies will record details of capital one's search and your application.

I have read the terms and conditions setting out the agreement with capital one and if my application is accepted

By signing this application you agree that information about you may be used like this regardless of whether or

not your application is accepted.

Important: please read read "use of information" overleaf (section 23 of the agreement) Section 23 of what

agreement?

Furthermore I note a distinct lack of prescribed terms of the agreement. This is because this is an application for

credit and not a credit agreement.

I feel that in the circumstances I have no alternative than to re-confirm my original demand. I suggest that you put

up or shut up. Take me to court and produce a compliant credit agreement.

The lack of a compliant credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

* may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* may not pass the account to a third party.

* may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* may not issue a default notice related to the account.

This is my final response in this matter. I shall not be making any payments to you, capquest, capital one, debitas

or any other scumbags, sorry, debt collection agencies, you or capital one may sell or pass this account to. That

would of course be breaching OFT guidelines as detailed above but you obviously think the guidelines do not apply

to you.

If you do not understand the contents of this letter please pass it to somebody suitably qualified to deal with it.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

HJS

 

 

I think Ms Hollis is actually quite nice, she hand writes the envelopes and everything.

 

 

She replied to me with this response......

 

 

.

I write in response to your letter dated xx xxx 2009 of which the contents have been duly noted.

 

I appreciate that you believe the agreement supplied is non compliant with the consumer credit act 1974 however it is likely you would have received a copy of agreement when your card was issued and consequently FTC believe you would have had every opportunity to raise any issues or concerns you may have had in relation to your agreement.

 

However due to the nature of your dispute I can confirm that FTC are in the process of closing your account and returning it to crap one. Please forward any further queries to crap one.

 

Should you wish to discuss this matter further please call me......

 

 

Ms V Hollis

Quality Assurance Officer

 

 

 

If it's all the same to you Ms Hollis........ I won't

 

Right...... Who's next? Debitarse? Crapquest? Crap One?

 

I wouldn't bother if I were you

Edited September 3, 2009 by HomerJSimpson

[mickmackpaddywack]

..

Edited September 16, 2009 by mickmackpaddywack
b

[mickmackpaddywack]

Hi all,

i had the following letter from capital one today and it enclosed a copy of my signed CA.

 

 

 

 

 

and they included this....

 

 

 

and these "terms & conditions"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

so capital one have sent me a copy of the signed credit agreement, but i dont think it has the required prescribed terms.

any advise anyone?

[exchange]

Interesting as I had V8# of the T&C's turn up today! They also sent a copy of my 'agreement', an application without prescribed terms.

Seems the T&C manufacturing department has been hard at work!

I will elt other more experienced caggers comment on the enforceability of your 'agreement' but I replied as we may all be getting these new versions of T&C's which are not in any format that I have seen on here before and I suspect are not a copy of anything originally produced, but I am certain are newly created to try and satisfy the CCA rules! Unbelievable!

[exchange]

Sorry, in case you didn't notice it has V9# at the bottom of each page of your posted T&C's. I suppose 'V' stands for version, I wonder how many have been created!

[colin21958]

What is there to tie the page with the signature to the other pages? If it is not clear that they are part of the same document then they do not have a signed document with all the prescirbed terms on it. Remember at a minimum they must provide a single document with your signature and ALL the prescribed terms on it; I understand that it doesn't all have to be in one page, but there must be a way of proving they were all part of the original signed document. Clearly all the prescribed terms exist in the series of pages shown, but they would need to prove that this was one document and that there was a clear reference between them. They would need to prove this in court by producing the compete document clearly showing all this. This to me looks like so many "Complied" documents which have been produced and I agree with exchange - someone has been very busy creating T&C's!