Perdita v CL finance/howard cohen !

[Perdita]

I have just received court papers for this account - HSBC credit card - account sold to CL finance in Jan 09. HSBC did supply a valid CCA for this and i had been making payments under an arrangement with them though i did miss a couple before xmas

I sent a cca req to cl finance on 10th april 2009 and have had no response until these court papers came on Tuesday from messrs Cohen !!

POC as below. I have also sent CPR 31.14 to them but i expect to get standard reply from them that they do not have to comply as my OH is already going through the court stage with them and that seems to be their standard response.

Can anyone advise on a defence strategy or anything i need to be aware of bearing in mind who i am dealing with( i am subbing to the sticky HC thread)

 

Thanks

P

http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt133/maverick97/CLHCPoc.jpg

[postggj]

so you sent a cca request

they are in default of that request and have started court action

 

dear o dear mr cohen

cant you get any thing right

[42man]

Hi P....these should help in case you hadn't spotted them

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/180152-katie3105-cl.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/152183-barclaycard-lewis-cl-finance.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/126111-cl-finance-ltd-recieved.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/127086-going-court-woody-cl.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/178882-court-claim-received-cl.html

[Perdita]

Cheers 42man - will have a look through them - got til 8th august to file it.

Thank you

P

[Perdita]

Hi post ggj - yes they are good arent they - i also have another loan account under CL as well, cca req sent at same time but i have fired off an account in dispute letter to them today to hopefully stop them instructing mr cohen again.

 

P

[PGH7447]

these fools are trying to get as much cash as possible in the shortest time, what with CATTLES going under

[postggj]

totally agree pgh

 

welcome

cl finance

lewis

cohen

 

all under the cattles umbrella

 

all been on the increase

[Perdita]

Sorry to souns stupid but im not up to speed on all this ( I know i should be) who are CATTLES and what are the implications of them going under?

 

P

[PGH7447]

Cattles are the parent company who "own" welcome finance; Lweis debt recvery of which ClueLess finance are a part.

 

Cattles have sacked 6 directors and failed to disclos there accounts and last year posted incorrect accounts

[Perdita]

As predicted, standard reply from messrs cohen in response to my CPR 31.14 " we are not obliged to provide this information and would advise that the particulars of claim detailed in the county court claim form should be sufficient to allow you to respond accordingly"

Any point in pursuing or should I just file the "embarrassed defence" when it is time?

P

[PGH7447]

embarrassed defence time then

[Perdita]

would the fact that the claim is for less than £5000 mean that he is right in that he doesnt have to supply the documents but the judge can order them to be produced at the allocation stage - just reading patricia pearls book! It states " Request for information "

It is worth noting that parties are not allowed to serve on each other requests for further information - thisis the part 18 procedure and is excluded from the procedures available under the small claims track.

The DJ should give full directions for the disclosure of relevant information at the allocation stage"

 

P

[Perdita]

This is the proposed defence i intend to file - thanks to andyorch and his advice in my other thread - can anyone add anything else?

 

I Perdita make this statement as my defence to the claim brought by

CL finance

 

1.The claimants particulars of claim are vague and fail to disclose any cause of action, they appear to be an abuse of the process in that they fail to deal with the basic rules of pleading in accordance with the CPR

 

2.No documents supporting the claims in the particulars have been offered which the defendant needs to establish what agreement it is that this action is based upon

 

3.Without clarification of the claimants claim, the defendant is extremely disadvantaged and the claimants claim appears without merit

 

 

4.Further to above the defendant is unable to plead effectively or at all. The defendant is embarrassed.

[Perdita]

also the fact that i had sent a cca request to cl finance to which i had no response and then the court claim started - should this be in the defence?

[42man]

Yes P.....definitely put this in....

[Perdita]

On .................. a request was made to CL finance for a copy of the original agreement with £1 enclosed in response to their letter claiming they had purchased the alleged debt and in order to verify their authority to claim the amount allegedly owed. No response was received from CL finance until the court papers were issued.

 

 

(Not sure how to word it will this be ok?)

[42man]

Might be worth putting in something along the lines of.....

 

Under section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act A formal written request for any true copies of signed consumer credit agreements was sent to (xxxxx). via guaranteed delivery on the (XXXXX)– to date they have not sent any copies of any Consumer Credit Agreements and they are in default of that request under section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act

I believe there are no properly executed signed Consumer Credit Agreements, defaulting under section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act

SECTION 78 (1) CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

(a) the state of the account, and

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and..

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

The Consumer Credit Act in section 78(6) States that

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement

[42man]

It might even be better to submit an n244 striking out their claim due to their default of your request !!

[42man]

Have a read of this one too - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/156156-help-mum-being-taken.html#post1665130

[42man]

And this - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/126111-cl-finance-ltd-recieved-4.html#post1350484

[Perdita]

Thanks 42man - will have a look through

 

P

[Perdita]

OK, could someone just cast an eye over this defence before i send it off - thanks

 

Defence

I Perdita make this statement as my defence to the claim brought by

CL finance

 

1.The claimants particulars of claim are vague and fail to disclose any cause of action, they appear to be an abuse of the process in that they fail to deal with the basic rules of pleading in accordance with the CPR

 

2.No documents supporting the claims in the particulars have been offered which the defendant needs to establish what agreement it is that this action is based upon

3. Under section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act A formal written request for any true copies of signed consumer credit agreements was sent to CL Finance with the £1 required fee on the 14/04/2009 to date they have not sent any copies of any Consumer Credit Agreements and they are in default of that request under section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act. The cheque for £1 cleared the bank on the 20th April 2009

 

I believe there are no properly executed signed Consumer Credit Agreements, defaulting under section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act

 

SECTION 78 (1) CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974

 

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

 

(a) the state of the account, and

 

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and..

 

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

 

The Consumer Credit Act in section 78(6) States that

 

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

 

he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement

 

4.Without clarification of the claimants claim, the defendant is extremely disadvantaged and the claimants claim appears without merit

 

5.Further to above the defendant is unable to plead effectively or at all. The defendant is embarrassed.

[Perdita]

Bump - anyone please, need to get it in post tomorrow - think its too long for MCOL

 

P

[Perdita]

Just checked, its not too long for MCOL so will submit it that way on Friday

 

Thanks

P

[42man]

It seems fine P.....but for my own peace of mind i'd get another opinion.....