Fixed Penalty notice (code 117) and PG9

[vinnychoff]

Could you help me with the route i take

stopped today with another biker. officer looked over mine and as the front tyre was low issued a pg9 and a fixed penalty notice offence code 117 tyre tread less than prescribed.

he allowed me to drive to the tyre place to get the tyres changed which i was going to do. i did not really think it sunk in that he was still going to do me with a points and fixed penalty when the pg9 corrected the issue??

i was on the understanding that the tyres need only %75 of tread. Mine only had a slight line that was under the 1mm but the tread was still visible.

i want to find out about trye depth etc what to do so i can request a court hearing

 

i think if the tyre is ok to drive to a tyre shop how can it be bad enough for a endorsable offence. it seems unfair when the reason is rectified??

 

thanks

[patdavies]

[vinnychoff]

is this from a reliable source? is there any info to confirm? for instance the amount that i can see in percentage terms that is low is about 2cms when the tyre across is 16cms

 

Another part that i am upset with is that I did not say anything when cautioned but he got me to talk first then put down that in the notes and asked me to sign. I feel this was tricked out of me. I was going to get the tyres changed after i had the bike serviced. That the mechanic mentioned they need changing soon but they are not illegal...

[lamma]

keep the 'suspect' tyre at all costs !! many of these offenses are mistaken. the regs are more complex than that and a lot of police don't really know them.. check out the MOT rules.

[vinnychoff]

Thanks for that advice. He said it was the front tyre that was low but on the pg9 it mentions both tyres.

on the fixed penalty it mentions 117 tyre??? which is single not both. how can i find out or should i go back to the shop and get the rear tyre also?

thanks

[lamma]

keep the tyres !! if it comes to it you can present them in court as evidence.

[crem]

keep the tyres !! if it comes to it you can present them in court as evidence.

 

Also get written confirmation that these tyres were the ones taken off the bike in question at the time of the "offence"

[katedog]

keep the 'suspect' tyre at all costs !! many of these offenses are mistaken. the regs are more complex than that and a lot of police don't really know them.. check out the MOT rules.

 

 

dont look at mot rules look at road traffic act constrution and use this is what police/magistrates use and for some cases they vary from mot rules. (although i do think it is the same for tyres)

[patdavies]

is this from a reliable source? is there any info to confirm?

 

It's from the MoT tester's manual

[katedog]

This is for a car tyre.

 

M/cycle tyres is 1mm. It has to be the central 3/4 of the usable tread.

Sometimes the tyre will have what looks like tread all the way to the edge, this is for cosmetic reasons and is not usable.

[vinnychoff]

looking at the tyre i have at least %75 over 1mm. but i need to know how to challenge the law / officer in court. do they use the mot laws to check the tyre.

is it the following ?

is there any previous cases where someone has challenged their view?

thanks

 

 

 

The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986.

These regulations do not cover only tyre legal requirements but any area related to road usage and traffic. They include areas related to dimensions and manoeuvrability, brakes, wheels, springs, tracks, steering, vision, instruments, fuel, minibuses, power to weight ratio, protective systems, control of emissions, plates, markings, testing and inspection and conditions related to use. Motor Vehicle Tyres (Safety) Regulations 1994

Which cover the requirements relating to the supply of tyres and areas such as E markings, Part Worn tyres and Re-treads

[wheelergeezer]

This is for a car tyre.

 

M/cycle tyres is 1mm. It has to be the central 3/4 of the usable tread.

Sometimes the tyre will have what looks like tread all the way to the edge, this is for cosmetic reasons and is not usable.

 

Absolutely correct. Motorcycle tyres are different rules from Car, as indeed truck tryes are too.

 

As advised above KEEP THE TYRES.

[vinnychoff]

thanks, im trying to work out what to do. im going to contest the pcn but need to know the steps i follow. is there any other cases?

i guess contest

take tyre to court.

ask them to measure the tyre?

ask a specialist to measure the tyre?

 

 

can i ask for details of the pcn? eg what tyre are they doing me for? or what are the details of the pcn? report? can i get that from the station?

[katedog]

If you want to challenge this there should be a part of your FPN which invites you to plead not guiilty. Fill this in and send it back within your 28 day time limit (send it recorded).

 

You will then get a summons fron the local magistrates. This will also include disclosure from PC plod in the form as his statement. That will tell you which tyre you are being done for and the reason youre getting done, ie " i examined the tyre and found the tread to be less that 1mm in depth. The nice officer should also tell you what device he used to measure the depth and its reference number. The gauges they use have to be calibrated at regular intervals by an approved testing house and you can if you so wish ask to see the calibration certificate. If they didn't use a calibrated device and cant evidence its accuracy they wont bother turning up to court.

 

For car tyres they would measusre depth at several location across an imaginary line through the centarl 3/4s.

 

Most modern motorcyle tryes have very limited tread groves and if you draw that imaginary line through the width of the tyre the chances are you will only draw it across one grove.

 

Just before we go any further you are sure you are being done for "defective tyre tread depth less than 1 mm" and not for "defective tyre tread not visible" any tyre is defective if any part of the original teard is not vsible. this is something that happens quite often on modern bike tyres with a soft compound. the outside tread looks fine but lots of m/way miles will soon wear out the cetral grove.

 

Like every one else has said you need to recover the tyres and keep them safe and take them to court if it gets that far.

 

If PC plod is any good he will have recorded the deatils of the tyre on his part of the ticket. Every tyre has its make and size and other bits and pieces but each and every tyre also has a unique serial number on it so they can prove if you bring in a ringer.

 

good luck and keep us posted.

[vinnychoff]

your right about my motorcycle tyre in the motorway miles but the central part has over 2mm it was to the side that was low not bald, still can see the tread. he was pushing the depth guage into the tyre with force to alter the depth and claiming it was less than 1mm. i can see depth of tread so think because he forced the guage. i wanted to challenge him but he was aggressive and any question raised his voice and approached me near my face. i felt if i said anything it just would have ended up worse.

 

i have the tyres safely and will produce in court if needed.

it was raining that day, he only checked one place front and rear tyre. the fp9 has worn beyond limit

the pcn has offence code 117

Tyre tread less than prescribed

 

thanks

[katedog]

It,s worth bearing in mind if PC plod was pushing his gauge into the tread it would have given a false reading, but it would have been false in your favour!!!!!!!!!!!

 

What are you using to measure your tread?

 

The ones that you get off the RAC or ATS, they look like a small metal pole with a pen clip attached , are a good guide but not necessaraly accurate.

 

You need to get a ture accurate reading before you defend yourself. (an engineering shop may well have an accurate dial gauge you could borrow)

 

You need to make sure you've got

 

a. 1 mm or more of tread depth and

 

b. its that depth or more in the central 3/4s of the useable width of the tyre and

 

c. that is ture all the way around the tyre.

 

If your 100% sure of all these things and you can show that to the court then go for it.

Edited July 11, 2009 by katedog

[vinnychoff]

sorry i meant to say that he was pushing the sides not the central part and he used the tread depth tool you mention. it was like a pen t shaped with the tip protruding. i have seen these as you say. should the office of had a tool that would have accurately measured the depth? even so he only measured one place

thanks

[katedog]

My understanding is that he needs to use an accurate gauge, that would be something which is regularly calibrated by an accredited testing house. The ones I have seen look like an anolog cwatch face with a bit stickiing out the bottom. The single hand goes round as the sensor goes in to your tread.

 

There are digital versions as well.

 

But what everv they use would give a reading of say 0.97mm. They need to be saying what the depth was not just that it was less than 1 mm.

 

A simple tool that you and i can get from ATS or RAC as part of an advertsing campaign is not good enough.