Birmingham Midshires repossession - Liz

[Liz Southern]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm at work so this will be quick. BM have issued me with a repossession hearing date at the court. It's just under £5,000 arrears but I'm paying the mortgage again plus a little off the arrears every month. I have a first charge which is £9,000 odd and has always been paid by direct debit, so it has never had arrears. On the repossession letter they sent me regarding that they had to admit that the arrears were nil! My mortgage was a short one, 12 years' long and it's relatively new.

 

I am writing to BM formally complaining that they will not capitalise the arrears under pre-action protocols, (in fact that they haven't attempted to resolve this by any of the pre-action protocols), that they have sent letterbox snoopers round my house, and that they have ARC and NCI chasing me (on what grounds since they are determined to repossess, so isn't that illogical?). They also have Shoosmiths dealing, who have already started making mistakes.

 

Any info on securitisation that Pendeford Mortgages No 1 has done will be grateful as I intend to make precedent and fight the repossession. BM said they would go for a suspended possession hearing but this is not on the court application.

 

Is it possible to apply for a set aside against a mortgage repossession on the lack of attempting pre-action protocols?

 

Also intend to use Human Rights Act, protocol 8 (snooper and attempt to repossess) but anyone reading this, please realise I'm really rushing as I write this.

 

Must go,

Regards

Liz

[Liz Southern]

Hi all,

 

Could anybody tell me if a first charge secured on a property for around £9,000 is regulated and therefore protected under consumer credit act?

 

Thanks,

Liz.

[pedross]

I am afraid you will have to make this clearer. Your mortgage is your first charge. Do you mean you have a second charge for £9,000?

 

If so and with all due respect, you say your mortgage is relatively new but you have £5,000 arrears. Your payment record since you took out your mortgage will affect their attitude.

 

Secured debts are far more difficult to challenge than unsecured ones for various reasons.

 

It is difficult for me to comment further as I do not feel clear on the facts.

[Liz Southern]

Sorry, yes, my main mortgage is about £250,000. The 5K arrears are 3 payments (when the interest rate was high). The 9k further advance (or second charge) is the one I am enquiring of, as to whether it is regulated under the consumer credit act.

 

Regards

Liz.

[dehowletts]

dunno if this helps:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mortgages-secured-loans/195648-new-homeowner-mortgage-support.html

 

 

your MC isn't actually listed but it does say that some MC's are doing their own version of so it's gotta be worth a read

[Liz Southern]

Hi de howletts,

 

I saw much the same on the Direct.gov.uk site. Thank you. Birmingham Midshires, aka BM Solutions, are owned by Bank of Scotland.

 

You know, it occurs to me that there will soon be a monopolies commission issue, if these banks keep buying each other.

Regards

Liz

[pedross]

I am short of time at the moment but I will give you my quick opinion. The £9,000 2nd charge is already secured against your property. Any attempt to challenge the loan will be wasted because they already have the charge on the house.

 

If you only have 3 months mortgage arrears and you have been paying in full for a while you should be able to attend the repossession hearing, explain the reason for the arrears and the fact you are paying now and ask for an affordable amount of arrears to be added each month until they are cleared. This should be acceptable and you will probably be ordered to pay less than the lender is asking for. If you have already been to court once then the situation is slightly different

 

Alternatively, telephone the lender, be polite and try and resolve the matter.

 

Unless there is something that I am not aware of I believe that these are the best options.

 

You may disagree and want to fight them but the next fact that is glaring at me is that you have only had the mortgage a short while so you knew the cost at the time and if you could afford the payments when you took it out then there was no need for arrears. The point that I am making is to have a mortgage of £250,000 you must have declared a reasonable income (proven or not) so if you plan to go to court to fight them they will want to know your income now.

 

If your circumstances have changed and your income has reduced then again that is a different matter.

 

You can be sure of one thing, the rates will go back up again in the future to the levels you were having difficulty with.

 

I hope I have explained clearly in my haste.

[Liz Southern]

Alternatively, telephone the lender, be polite and try and resolve the matter.

 

You may disagree and want to fight them but the next fact that is glaring at me is that you have only had the mortgage a short while so you knew the cost at the time and if you could afford the payments when you took it out then there was no need for arrears. The point that I am making is to have a mortgage of £250,000 you must have declared a reasonable income (proven or not) so if you plan to go to court to fight them they will want to know your income now.

 

They already know my income. Hello, where have you been hiding, Pedross, there's a recession on! My business is suffering badly because of its location. I have been communicating and trying to resolve this in a nice way with the building society from day one. They're not interested. Their SPV investors want their investment back.

 

You can be sure of one thing, the rates will go back up again in the future to the levels you were having difficulty with. Doom, gloom and despondency!! :grin: Likewise, business should get back to normal.

 

I've sent BM questions which I'm sure they won't want raised in Court. Waiting for their replies.

Regards

Liz

[juneandon]

Call your Local Authority, ask for the Money Advisor or Homeless Prevention Team. Ask about the Court Desk duty officer. The Local Authority may be in court very regularly and their officers should be known to the judges. This service is free and they can represent/support you in court.

[Liz Southern]

Call your Local Authority, ask for the Money Advisor or Homeless Prevention Team. Ask about the Court Desk duty officer. The Local Authority may be in court very regularly and their officers should be known to the judges. This service is free and they can represent/support you in court.

 

Thanks for that. Keep you posted.

[pedross]

I've sent BM questions which I'm sure they won't want raised in Court. Waiting for their replies.

Regards

Liz

 

I did not mean to be negative Liz.

 

The point that I was making was that some BM borrowers self certified their income instead of producing audited accounts. I was just making the point as I had little information to go on. I did not know your business circumstances.

 

I have re read my post and I accept that maybe in my haste I was a little abrupt but I believe the rest of my post was to the point and very relevent to your post.

 

Posting on a forum is not always like talking to someone face to face.

 

I know the lenders can be difficult to deal with but the courts are very often sensible.

 

Best of luck.

 

Pedross

[Liz Southern]

I did not mean to be negative Liz.

 

Posting on a forum is not always like talking to someone face to face.

 

Pedross

 

I know that, silly. That's why my "doom, gloom and despondency" phrase had a big grin icon next to it. See, :grin::grin::grin:

 

Regards

Liz:grin:

[jansus]

I think that as long as you have all your written records concerning your attempts to come to an agreement with the lender and you are now maintaining payments it will be unlikely that the court will grant possession . I dont think that the court can rule the lender to change the terms of the mortgage at the moment but ell-enn would know more about that.

 

I would try one last very clear recorded letter stating your current position and your proposals and make it clear you are trying everything within your power to avoid a possession hearing ( the court will appreciate that) and then if they dont play ball you can show the judge you have done your best.

 

Are you getting regular charges for being in arrears and are they including these in the arrears figures?

[Liz Southern]

I think that as long as you have all your written records concerning your attempts to come to an agreement with the lender and you are now maintaining payments it will be unlikely that the court will grant possession.

 

I would try one last very clear recorded letter stating your current position and your proposals and make it clear you are trying everything within your power to avoid a possession hearing ( the court will appreciate that) and then if they dont play ball you can show the judge you have done your best.

 

Are you getting regular charges for being in arrears and are they including these in the arrears figures?

 

BM said they were going for a suspended repo order. But the paperwork refers to a "repossession" order. I want the judge not to agree to either. I have sent a long letter to them, but I can't go into details before the hearing. No sense arming the opposition.

 

There are no extra charges on the arrears.

Thanks for your input, peeps.

Regards

Liz

[Liz Southern]

Quick Update

 

I had a letter from Birmingham Midshires in reply to mine asking them to inform me when it was securitised, and they said they didn't know what I meant by securitisation but if I liked to explain it to them, they would look into it further!

 

What a patronising reply! If they think that's going to stop me, they are plain stupid.

 

Regards

Liz

[uneverdid]

mmm thats just what capstone said to me when i approached the subject of securitisation. As another point i am presuming u r not using your correct name just because of the unscrupulus characters that sometimes lurk on this site. Please dont take that as being patronising just ensuring you are protected.

[Liz Southern]

mmm thats just what capstone said to me when i approached the subject of securitisation. As another point i am presuming u r not using your correct name just because of the unscrupulus characters that sometimes lurk on this site. Please dont take that as being patronising just ensuring you are protected.

 

Hi,

 

Yep, Liz isn't my real name, though I'm thinking of adopting another name in code form because so many nice peeps have warned me.

Thank you.

Regards

Liz

[Liz Southern]

Hi everyone,

 

I attended my repossession hearing this morning. I have gathered a lot of information about BM and securitisation. I revealed a little of that to the Court today.

 

The locum solicitor for BM didn't know the facts. And, guess what, he was a very nice chap. He actually asked the DJ to agree to my paying the mortgage over the remainder of the term. No-one mentioned the words "repossession" or even "suspended repossession". However, he couldn't add up and he got the term and the amounts wrong, but I forgive him.

 

(What was amusing was that the man who had harassed me and stuck his fingers through my letterbox is the man who usually appears for Birmingham Midshires' repossessions at that court. He WAS there, but not on my case.)

 

Anyway, I put forward that the second charge was protected under the CCA and was not in arrears, so was not part of the attempted repossession, and that was the end of that!

 

The District Judge made an Order giving Birmingham Midshires 28 days to prove they own the mortgage debt. An HM Land Registry entry will not be accepted as proof, as they had put a Land Registry entry in their Particulars of Claim and it wasn't accepted because of what I had put in my Defence. The case will now go before a Circuit Judge from late October onwards.

 

This case will now become a matter of public interest. Trust me, BM, if you are reading this, you WILL now become a matter of public interest.

 

Regards

Liz:-)

 

Oops, there goes another rubber tree plant!

Edited August 11, 2009 by Liz Southern
tree

[pedross]

Well done Liz

 

You did what you said you were going to do.

 

Pedross

[Ell-enn]

Well done indeed ! for standing up to them. Sounds like you were very well prepared.

[Liz Southern]

Well done indeed ! for standing up to them. Sounds like you were very well prepared.

 

Thanks Ell-enn and Pedross,

 

I won today, but I mustn't crow. I have to focus, cos this is only a tiny bit of what I'm going to do to them.

 

By the way, Judges are now using the Norgan precedent of spreading arrears over the entire remaining term of the mortgage.

 

Regards

Liz

[Ell-enn]

 

By the way, Judges are now using the Norgan precedent of spreading arrears over the entire remaining term of the mortgage.

 

 

I've always used the Norgan case law in defences where a payment plan is offered. All judges acknowledge it when it is included in defences, although I have heard of some actually suggesting it themselves.

[Liz Southern]

I've always used the Norgan case law in defences where a payment plan is offered. All judges acknowledge it when it is included in defences, although I have heard of some actually suggesting it themselves.

 

For some reason I thought Norgan was recent, although it took years to resolve, but was 1995.