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[Button1]

See posting 18 Sept

Edited September 18, 2009 by Button1

[JonCris]

Button1 contact the Mod Martin3030 via PM

[Button1]

See posting 18 Sept

Edited September 18, 2009 by Button1

[Button1]

See posting 18 Sept

Edited September 18, 2009 by Button1

[JonCris]

Without prejudice means you can still be prosecuted or that further monies can be claimed - In other-words their offer even if met by you does not extinguish their legal rights

 

To be a proper offer it should read as Full & Final

 

Please contact either the mod Martin3030 or myself

[Button1]

See posting 18 Sept

Edited September 18, 2009 by Button1

[labrat]

hang on im sorry theres not been much responces there is alot going on behind the scenes, wait on martin or joncris theyre the experts

[Button1]

Hi labrat,

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to read my postings and reply.

 

Thanks everyone:)

 

add.........see posting 18 Sept

Edited September 18, 2009 by Button1

[labrat]

i would talk to them via email in this case its ok, theres a few things not being said on the open forum incase rlp get to hear.

 

i cant go into much more detail im afraid, ive tried to help them as well but to be honest i think ive been more hinderance than help, i would really suggest talking to him via pm

[Button1]

........

Edited March 29, 2010 by Button1

[2Grumpy]

Presumably there is a security guard's statement that he saw you shoplifting as well as blackmail by the threat that they will report this to the police if you don't pay up.

 

You might already have been added to their "dodgy character" database.

 

You have been put through months of mental torture by RLP's threats.

 

I think that you should be contacting RLP, maybe a CPR request to find out whether they did add you to their database before deciding how much to ask the courts to award you.

[Button1]

.......

Edited March 29, 2010 by Button1

[2Grumpy]

My understanding is that you may be able to take these charmers to court (although that might turn out to be tricky).

 

While you are considering that, you are allowed to ask for information from them. That is a CPR request.

 

It might make RLP sit up & take notice if you start along those lines, even if you don't take them to court.

 

It might be worth while asking for a copy of the CCTV from boots as well.

 

Did you get that information from Boots in writing? I would request that statement in writing if you did not!

 

An S10 data protection notice forbidding RLP to hold your data might be in order too.

 

Try contacting JonCris or Martin3030 by pm

[WelshMam2009]

I watched a program several years back and on there it advised not to go voluntarily with the security guard, if you knew you were innocent, but to compel them into making a citizen's arrest.

 

When it is then subsequently proven that you were innocent, you have re-dress to sue for compensation as well as the security guard potentially facing charges as the laws are complex and easy to breach in this regard.

 

EDIT...just checked, you would sue for unlawful arrest and/or false imprisonment.

Edited September 20, 2009 by WelshMam2009

[eyeinthesky]

I watched a program several years back and on there it advised not to go voluntarily with the security guard, if you knew you were innocent, but to compel them into making a citizen's arrest.

 

When it is then subsequently proven that you were innocent, you have re-dress to sue for compensation as well as the security guard potentially facing charges as the laws are complex and easy to breach in this regard.

 

EDIT...just checked, you would sue for unlawful arrest and/or false imprisonment.

 

I'm sorry, but this is really poor advice! If a security guard does make an "any person arrest", then he only has to show that he acted reasonably under the circumstances. The guard does not have to touch you to arrest you, but simply inform you that you are indeed under arrest. If you try to leave the scene then he is allowed to use reasonable force to detain you. Having made an "any person arrest", the only way he can release you is to a police officer. If the police take a couple of hours to get there, then you have to wait!

 

A much better way to deal with this situation is to return to the store, but refuse to give the guard any details, and refuse to let him search your bags. This would mean having to call the police so that they could search you and get details. The police would also wish to view the cctv evidence for themselves. If you have nothing that you have not paid for, then things would end there and you could take up the matter of an apology with the store's head office.

 

If, on the other hand, you have something you have not paid for, then just hand it over. If it's all just a terrible mistake, then this should be evident on the cctv. There will be no glances towards the cameras, no furtive movements to conceal items, no observation of shop staff. The key is getting the police involved, so they can view the cctv recordings and decide if it was a deliberate act.

[WelshMam2009]

I'm sorry, but this is really poor advice! If a security guard does make an "any person arrest", then he only has to show that he acted reasonably under the circumstances.

 

I'm no lawyer but I don't believe that's correct to be honest as you have only addressed the one issue of using reasonable force.

 

If the arrested person is later acquitted in court (and/or no proceedings instigated) then it could be concluded that no offence has been committed; thus the arrest would be unlawful. That is where the area of civil compensation comes in.

 

The reasonable force applies to potential criminal charges against the security guard which may or may not be warranted.

 

Given the likes of RLP appear to be abusing the civil system to claim back extortionate charges it is certainly one way to start fightig back if you know you have been wrongly accused.

[eyeinthesky]

This is quickly taken from https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q508.htm

 

This area of law is very complex and the following is only basic guidance. The law states that,

• Any person can arrest a person who is in the act of committing an indictable offence or
  
• Anyone whom he reasonably suspects to be committing such an offence, if
  
  • it is not reasonably practicable for a constable to make the arrest instead and
    
  • it is necessary to arrest the person for one of the below reasons,
    

To prevent the person in question,

• causing physical injury to himself or any other person;
  
• suffering physical injury;
  
• causing loss of or damage to property; or
  
• making off before a constable can assume responsibility for him.
  

There a few points to raise about the above paragraph.

1. What is an indictable offence?

An indictable offence is an offence that can be tried at Crown Court. Below are examples of indictable offences which are the most likely to be encountered by members of the public,

• theft
  
• burglary
  
• criminal damage.
  

2. How do I know if I can make a citizens arrest?

You can make an arrest if the suspect is actually committing the offence or if you reasonably suspect them of committing it, or when the offence has been committed and you reasonably suspect them of having committed it.

There is no specific wording to use when making a citizens arrest. However you must inform the person you are arresting as soon as possible what you are doing, why you are doing it and what offence you believe the person has committed.

There are other considerations to make when making an arrest,

• reasonable force - see question in related information for details on reasonable force.
  
• potential for civil litigation - the courts are sympathetic to public spirited citizens and the exercise of their powers and rights, however, if you get it wrong you could be sued for unlawful arrest and/or false imprisonment.
  
• do not make a citizens arrest if you feel that you would be putting yourself or any other person in danger, ring 999.
  

[Button1]

..........

Edited March 29, 2010 by Button1

[WelshMam2009]

This is quickly taken from https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q508.htm

 

This area of law is very complex and the following is only basic guidance. The law states that,

• Any person can arrest a person who is in the act of committing an indictable offence or
  
• Anyone whom he reasonably suspects to be committing such an offence, if
  
  • it is not reasonably practicable for a constable to make the arrest instead and
    
  • it is necessary to arrest the person for one of the below reasons,
    

   

To prevent the person in question,

• causing physical injury to himself or any other person;
  
• suffering physical injury;
  
• causing loss of or damage to property; or
  
• making off before a constable can assume responsibility for him.
  

There a few points to raise about the above paragraph.

1. What is an indictable offence?

An indictable offence is an offence that can be tried at Crown Court. Below are examples of indictable offences which are the most likely to be encountered by members of the public,

• theft
  
• burglary
  
• criminal damage.
  

2. How do I know if I can make a citizens arrest?

You can make an arrest if the suspect is actually committing the offence or if you reasonably suspect them of committing it, or when the offence has been committed and you reasonably suspect them of having committed it.

There is no specific wording to use when making a citizens arrest. However you must inform the person you are arresting as soon as possible what you are doing, why you are doing it and what offence you believe the person has committed.

There are other considerations to make when making an arrest,

• reasonable force - see question in related information for details on reasonable force.
  
• potential for civil litigation - the courts are sympathetic to public spirited citizens and the exercise of their powers and rights, however, if you get it wrong you could be sued for unlawful arrest and/or false imprisonment.
  
• do not make a citizens arrest if you feel that you would be putting yourself or any other person in danger, ring 999.
  

 

You forgot to highlight the bits in red!!

[eyeinthesky]

Button, I am sorry to have annoyed you, it was not my intention to annoy anyone. I was not being cocky nor am I a security guard. My post was just advice for anyone being accused of shop theft, and I did say that getting police involved was key. In your own case, if police had been called, you would have been vindicated immediately.

[eyeinthesky]

You forgot to highlight the bits in red!!

 

I didn't forget the red bit, this would be negated if the action would be considered reasonable, by a reasonable person.

 

I still think it would be foolish to compel a security guard to make a citizen's arrest.

[2Grumpy]

In your own case, if police had been called, you would have been vindicated immediately.

Only if they looked at the CCTV!

 

I agree with not going anywhere in the circumstances, but we have to advise button1.

 

It would be unfair for here to be left on the RLP database & to be honest I don't think that RLP/Boots deserve to just walk away from this unscathed.

[Sugar Plum Fairy]

Hi Button, I received an apology letter myself from Boots regarding my daughter however please be aware that although Boots dropped the case RLP still forwarded her details to a debt collection agency who we are now being harassed by. Its neverending and I hope you don't get the same.

[Yorky2008]

I still think it would be foolish to compel a security guard to make a citizen's arrest.

 

Why?

 

If they are 100% sure of their actions they have nothing to fear, if they are wrong then the accused has an action of recourse.

[eyeinthesky]

Why?

 

If they are 100% sure of their actions they have nothing to fear, if they are wrong then the accused has an action of recourse.

 

Why make a bad situation worse? If the person accused is 100% sure that they have done nothing wrong, then why not just cooperate?