Barclays v Business

[fergal71]

If business is not doing well but have charges claim of over £2000 can I claim for refund of charges under financial hardship for business charges...£35 per time????

 

Any help appreciated

[slick132]

Moving this to Business charges forum where you should get the input you need.

 

[MARTIN3030]

The FOS arent looking at any charges for business customers as far as I am aware.

What periods do the charges relate to ?

What were the charges levied for ?

Is it a sole trader account ?

Have you had any cooms from Barclays about this and have they taken any hostile action ie withdrawn chequebooks cancelled standing orders etc ?

[fergal71]

Hi they are for paid referals £35 each mainly... business is sole trader and not doing so good mounting debts... Bank has called in overdraft... difficult to get account elsewhere so stuck between rock and hard place... they already charge huge commissions just for using business account when others are offering free business banking ,,,, not sure what to do????

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Fergal71!

 

Hi they are for paid referrals £35 each mainly... business is sole trader and not doing so good mounting debts... Bank has called in overdraft... difficult to get account elsewhere so stuck between rock and hard place... they already charge huge commissions just for using business account when others are offering free business banking ,,,, not sure what to do????

OK, the key is to do all that you can to ensure you can stay in Business.

 

Sole Traders and Small Partnerships do not need a Business bank Account, so there is nothing whatsoever stopping you from running your Sole Trader Business via a Private bank Account.

 

If you are a Sole Trader, then what ever your Business is called, it is still you Trading As that Business. You do not need to have a Business Account. It's 100% legal to Trade in your own name, and use a Private bank Account in your own name. The banks really don't like Sole Traders and Small Partnerships knowing this, and usually go out of their way to hard sell Business Accounts. That's because it suits them better, they make more money doing it that way and they know the bank is in a stronger legal position when it comes to their Charges and Fees.

 

On Monday, I would go straight out and get a new Private Account with another bank. Make sure it is as far removed from Barclays as possible, i.e. not part of their empire, and one that is not likely to merge with Barclays any time soon.

 

Indeed, having a basic bank Account is so crucial, that I'd be inclined to go out and get two with two other banks. Then just keep £5 or so in one of them, keeping it as a fall-back in case it is ever needed.

 

It's also not a bad idea to get two Accounts with the same new main bank, and keep one as the Account that holds most of your funds, from which Mortgage etc is paid, and use the other one for general transactions. That way, if someone should, for example, raid your Debit Card, or PayPal grab funds you were not expecting, then the damage will be limited to just what is in that Account. Never use the main one for Debit Card Payments, and never link the main one to, say, PayPal or anyone that can dip in for some more Pocket Money!

 

All banks are bankers, so they are all pretty bad. Just get a basic Private AC with a Cheque Book, Paying In Book, Debit Card and On-Line Banking so you can see the numbers 24x7 and can make BACS Payments. Some offer linked Deposit Accounts, so that can be useful to park any excess money to both gain interest and to move the money another step back from being easy to grab.

 

New Account Summary

 

Bank 1 New Private Current Account 1 - use for general transactions.

Bank 1 New Private Current Account 2 - use for holding funds, Mortgage etc

Bank 1 New Deposit Account - park any extra funds there

 

Bank 2 New Private Current - just as a fall-back in case Bank 1 merge with Barclays!

 

Once you have the new Account(s) open, it is vital that you keep it/them protected from anyone dipping in to it and grabbing funds.

 

Thus, do not set up any Direct Debits. No matter how much people say you should pay them that way, tell them to bog off, and instead settle via methods where you are fully in control.

 

Get used to paying everyone via Cheque or BACS or, if you are sure of them, via Debit Card. Don't pay anyone via Debit Card who might authorise additional payments when you are not expecting them.

 

I know you can get that back, the key is to not let anyone grab vital funds in the first place.

 

If you have any Savings with Barclays, get that out NOW, do not hang around. Likewise, move all receipts away from the Barclays Accounts too, such as Customer Payments or income from investments. Point that all to your new Account(s).

 

Business Survival Strategy

 

Draw up a list of key Bills, and make sure you can pay them. Forget all the others, for now, because if you don't pay the ones that matter, you won't have a Business for very much longer.

 

For example, these will be key:

 

General:

 

Mortgage

Council Tax

Electricity

Other vital Services, Water, Gas, Oil etc.

Secured Debts (if any).

Kids/Family Food and basics.

 

Business Specific:

 

Business Rates (if applicable, run it from home if possible).

ADSL Line.

Telephone.

Mobile.

Car/Van Insurance Fuel etc.

Key Trade Accounts.

 

Everything else is unsecured, so they will have to wait while you get the core Business Survival Level issues sorted.

 

Cash is King in a Recession, so hang on to what you have, and start building up as much more of it as you possibly can.

 

Sell off anything not nailed down, and cancel all non-essential subscriptions and insurances. Dump Sky TV, Sofa Insurance, Clubs, you name it, dump it.

 

Forget Barclays, they are not your friend, never were. Consider them as hostile from now on, but stay polite and business like. Barclays have problems of their own, and have demonstrated that they cannot even run a bank well, so they are in no position to look down on your business that is struggling in the middle of a bank created Recession. It is a mess of their making, and we are all neck deep in it.

 

They are looking to grab whatever you have, to protect their own backside, so do not be under any illusion that is not the case. If you have any Assets they will know, and will have their greedy eyes on them already.

 

Invest in a SAR, and get to see what they have been saying about you. Most banks run a notebook type of logging system, and you want to get a peek at that. You may be angry to read what the bankers have been saying about you behind your back. Don't be surprised if they have been discussing your house, and the likely chances they will have in being able to kick you out of it so they can liquidate it. You are just a number on a computer screen.

 

Once you have secured your position as best you can, then you will be in a better position to lock horns with Barclays to fight them back.

 

However, do not underestimate the venom of Barclays, and the way they will behave if they think they have the upper hand. The wind will go out of their sail once you relocate operations to another Account with another bank, because then they cannot exercise their Right to Set-Off, and grab funds, as they wish, from any of your Accounts.

 

This is all very general and common sense based, but I hope it helps.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[fergal71]

thank you so much for all that advice....

 

I must just point out that it is not me in this position, I am trying to help someone else who does not use a computer... They own a pub which is licensed to a brewery... They have their name only above door ... does this make them a sole trader??????

 

thanks again for advice already given..

[MARTIN3030]

Presumably they are tenants of the brewery-although theres very few brewery owned pubs these days-its likely to be a pub management company who have given a lease under a business partnership.

So yes he will still be classed as a sole trader in self employ.

Once he has his new accounts set up-he needs to update suppliers with his new account details-its easy enough to do.

[banker_rhymes_with]

It's possible your friend could be in Business as a Limited Company, so you would need to ask him that.

 

A couple of years ago, every Accountant out there seemed to be trying to persuade people to become Limited Companies. Many followed that advice, and many now wish they were still Sole Trader's/Partnerships!

 

I regret it is an important issue, because a Limited Company, no matter how small, means your friend is not Self-Employed, so would have to have a Business bank Account in that case.

 

That is because the Limited Company is regarded as being a Business entity in its own right, with its own protections from potential mis-management by its own Director(s). It has to have its own bank AC etc. In that example, your friend would be an employee of the Company...even if he is the sole Director and otherwise owns it.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[MARTIN3030]

Agreed - although if he is a single site landlord I reckon chances are that he is not-breweries and Pub and leisure management companies dont like to deal so much with individuals who run as limited-obviously because theres limited liabilities when they screw later.

[banker_rhymes_with]

Yes, that figures...the Brewery will always want to have easy access to the Landlord's assets if it all goes pear-shaped!

 

Cheers,

BRW

[slick132]

Another consideration must be the bank's willingness to provide the banking arrangements which I assume the pub would require - eg handling regular cash credits of both coins and notes.

 

They may be unwilling to do this on a normal personal a/c.

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Slick132!

 

They may be unwilling to do this on a normal personal a/c.

Yes, that is indeed a factor.

 

I was looking at this from the point of view that they may not be able to get another Business Account. If they can, and they need one, then great, get one elsewhere ASAP.

 

However, many people are now in the position that getting a new Business Account is all but impossible. That's if there are negative markers on the Credit/Debt Reference Agencies. In that situation, now all too common, then getting a new Business Account may well be impossible for many Months if not many Years...unless other steps are found, that could mean Business failure.

 

If they need a Business Account, then run, don't walk, to another bank on Monday, and try and open one. Then go and try another bank. If you are quick, you may be lucky.

 

There's a lesson here for anyone in Business reading this...get another 2nd Account now, before you need it. Better to have a 2nd near Dormant Account and not need it, than find you do need it, and by then find you can't get it. Never rely on just one bank. Trust me, I know!

 

Going back to the assumption that a new Business Account is not an option, because the banks have closed ranks and blocked any such Application (which they will do and fast), then a Private AC is a way to keep trading.

 

Indeed, if lots of Cash is an issue, then open a bunch of Private Accounts, and spread the Cash handling out so none of them complain they are handling too much. In these times, you may find many banks are less likely to kick up...they'll be glad to see the Cash!

 

But Slick has a valid point, and if Cash is an issue, you may need to work harder to find a working alternative to having a Business Account.

 

IOW, whatever it takes, don't let the loss of a Business Account be the issue that takes the Business down.

 

What ever you do, don't say it's for Business use. It is none of their business. The key is to run the new Account(s) well, and do not use or ask for an Overdraft, because they probably won't give it to you, other than a small standard one that comes with the Account, like £100 or £200.

 

If you run that Account well, no bounced cheques etc, that may well build up some standing with the bank in question. They may find ways to accommodate any extra Cash handling they find themselves having to force themselves to do! Indeed, they may suggest and offer a Business Account after a while. But the key is to get something in place that allows the Business, the Cash Cow, to stay alive.

 

In summary, if you need a Business AC, try and get one fast before Barclays mess up your Credit Rating so much that getting one won't be possible. It is relatively easy to get a Private Account, whereas it is near impossible to get a Business Account if the poo has been forced to hit the fan by a hostile former bank.

 

If Credit Card facilities are vital, then it's possible that a Business Account could be the only option. With that in mind, see if the Business can manage without taking Credit Cards...some have found they can, to their amazement. The eradication of Card Fees might well result in an unexpected jump in profits.

 

Most of what I am saying is to do with basic Survival Level issues. If you are not at that stage, then more options will be available...such as the option (if you are quick) of switching Business facilities to similar facilities at another bank. If you are too slow, or the fix has already gone in, then I doubt you'll get a Business Account anywhere for a long time.

 

Therein lies the wickedness of the current bank stranglehold on the economy.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[MARTIN3030]

Good point but theres ways round it.I know someone who was in much same position.

He would take change to other pubs who always want it.

He also used to go to the car park cash office who would give change for notes.

Then theres good regulars who will always give little tips about things like that.

The downside could be that the brewery or drinks wholesaler could view this as a sign of trouble....but to alleviate that he could pay his account to the rep in cash when he does his rounds-quite a few I know do this.

 

Theres also the collector who empties the machines-usually done after a weekend-and a good way of sorting out change either way from the split.

[MARTIN3030]

I was talking to a Business manager from INBIZ-this is the new business arm of jobseekers direct who help unemployed people starting up in business.

He told me about the problems many have with accounts-not only new starters but also those who have been in business before and want to start up again.

They have done an arrangement with Lloyds where accounts are given to new start ups.

Its called the Business foundation account.

The only criteria for being refused is if you are a discharged bankrupt or owe Lloyds money fro the past.

I asked if this was available to other businesses who maybe were having problems with their banks.

He said it was something that should be taken up with them.

Coupled with the govs business guarantee scheme-it could be worth looking into.

This scheme is also linked with many local chambers of commerce-so its well worth having a word with them or even joining as a member ....its only around £25 for a year.

There is a focus now on helping business and I think its a good time-but you need to embrace these organisations like the chamber to know the inns and outs and also benefit from their knowledge.

The banks themselves will tell you sod all-but much is now being forced on them and its your mission to know.