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    • The Notice to Hirer does not comply with the protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule  4 . This is before I ask if Europarks have sent you a copy of the PCN they sent to Arval along with a copy of the hire agreement et. if they haven't done that either you are totally in the clear and have nothing to worry about and nothing to pay. The PCN they have sent you is supposed to be paid by you according to the Act within 21 days. The chucklebuts have stated 28 days which is the time that motorists have to pay. Such a basic and simple thing . The Act came out in 2012 and still they cannot get it right which is very good news for you. Sadly there is no point in telling them- they won't accept it because they lose their chance to make any money out of you. they are hoping that by writing to you demanding money plus sending in their  unregulated debt collectors and sixth rate solicitors that you might be so frightened as to pay them money so that you can sleep at night. Don't be surprised if some of their letters are done in coloured crayons-that's the sort of  level of people you will be dealing with. Makes great bedding for the rabbits though. Euro tend not to be that litigious but while you can safely ignore the debt collectors just keep an eye out for a possible Letter of Claim. They are pretty rare but musn't be ignored. Let us know so that you can send a suitably snotty letter to them showing that you are not afraid of them and are happy to go to Court as you like winning.  
    • They did reply to my defence stating it would fail and enclosed copies of NOA, DN Term letter and account statements. All copies of T&C's that could be reconstructions and the IP address on there resolves to the town where MBNA offices are, not my location
    • Here are 7 of our top tips to help you connect with young people who have left school or otherwise disengaged.View the full article
    • My defence was standard no paperwork:   1.The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 2. Paragraph 1 is noted. The Defendant has had a contractual relationship with MBNA Limited in the past. The Defendant does not recognise the reference number provided by the claimant within its particulars and has sought verification from the claimant who is yet to comply with requests for further information. 3. Paragraph 2 is denied. The Defendant maintains that a default notice was never received. The Claimant is put to strict proof to that a default notice was issued by MBNA Limited and received by the Defendant. 4. Paragraph 3 is denied. The Defendant is unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment allegedly served from either the Claimant or MBNA Limited. 5. On the 02/01/2023 the Defendant requested information pertaining to this claim by way of a CCA 1974 Section 78 request. The claimant is yet to respond to this request. On the 19/05/2023 a CPR 31.14 request was sent to Kearns who is yet to respond. To date, 02/06/2023, no documentation has been received. The claimant remains in default of my section 78 request. 6. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of proof of assignment being sent/ agreement/ balance/ breach or termination requested by CPR 31.14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to: (a) show how the Defendant entered into an agreement; and (b) show and evidence the nature of breach and service of a default notice pursuant to Section 87(1) CCA1974 (c) show how the claimant has reached the amount claimed for; and (d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim; 7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed. 8. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974. 9. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.
    • Monika the first four pages of the Private parking section have at least 12 of our members who have also been caught out on this scam site. That's around one quarter of all our current complaints. Usually we might expect two current complaints for the same park within 4 pages.  So you are in good company and have done well in appealing to McDonalds in an effort to resolve the matter without having  paid such a bunch of rogues. Most people blindly pay up. Met . Starbucks and McDonalds  are well aware of the situation and seem unwilling to make it easier for motorists to avoid getting caught. For instance, instead of photographing you, if they were honest and wanted you  to continue using their services again, they would have said "Excuse me but if you are going to go to Mc donalds from here, it will cost you £100." But no they kett quiet and are now pursuing you for probably a lot more than £100 now. They also know thst  they cannot charge anything over the amount stated on the car park signs. Their claims for £160 or £170 are unlawful yet so many pay that to avoid going to Court. When the truth is that Met are unlikely to take them to Court since they know they will lose. The PCNs are issued on airport land which is covered by Byelaws so only the driver can be pursued, not the keeper. But they keep writing to you as they do not know who was driving unless you gave it away when you appealed. Even if they know you were driving they should still lose in Court for several reasons. The reason we ask you to fill out our questionnaire is to help you if MET do decide to take you to Court in the end. Each member who visited the park may well have different experiences while there which can help when filling out a Witness statement [we will help you with that if it comes to it.] if you have thrown away the original PCN  and other paperwork you obviously haven't got a jerbil or a guinea pig as their paper makes great litter boxes for them.🙂 You can send an SAR to them to get all the information Met have on you to date. Though if you have been to several sites already, you may have done that by now. In the meantime, you will be being bombarded by illiterate debt collectors and sixth rate solicitors all threatening you with ever increasing amounts as well as being hung drawn and quartered. Their letters can all be safely ignored. On the odd chance that you may get a Letter of Claim from them just come back to us and we will get you to send a snotty letter back to them so that they know you are not happy, don't care a fig for their threats and will see them off in Court if they finally have the guts to carry on. If you do have the original PCN could you please post it up, carefully removing your name. address and car registration number but including dates and times. If not just click on the SAR to take you to the form to send to Met.
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Having Rankine vs American Express used againsnt me in court - can anyone help?


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Hi,

 

I was wondering if there is anyone who can help me. I am being taken to court & the claiments are saying they are going to reply on the Rankines VS American Express court case.

 

I have googled & found the court notes, however, what I cant find if whether they have appealed this case, I know they tried to appeal decisions agaisnt other creditors.

 

Also, the claimant in my case are basically saying the preceedent was set that the judge states that failure to comply with a request made under section 78 consumer credit act 74 does not prevent the creditor from commencing proceedings.

 

Can anyone give me some advice please?

 

Many Thanks

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Hi,

 

I was wondering if there is anyone who can help me. I am being taken to court & the claiments are saying they are going to reply on the Rankines VS American Express court case.

 

I have googled & found the court notes, however, what I cant find if whether they have appealed this case, I know they tried to appeal decisions agaisnt other creditors.

 

Also, the claimant in my case are basically saying the preceedent was set that the judge states that failure to comply with a request made under section 78 consumer credit act 74 does not prevent the creditor from commencing proceedings.

 

Can anyone give me some advice please?

 

Many Thanks

 

The wonderful Rankine

 

Could you post a copy of the claim and also your defence

 

Yes - its' true that Rankine says that a failure to comply with s78 CCA does NOT prevent proceedings being issued HOWEVER there are other obligations which require that they produce the documents within the county court proceedings. The other thing to say is that Rankine may well not say what they claim.

 

I really need more detail as to exactly what is happening before I can give you more specific suggestions

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/171037-multiple-agreements-falling-within.html

 

On pages 59/60/61 i have outlined my case there.

 

basically I have i believe a multiple agreement, I never received my Credit Agreement at time of signing or within 7 days. The judge last time has given the other side another chance to get their act together & fined them £80 for wasting my time going to court that day, however, I cant understand why the judge gave them another chance & now why the sols are heavily rellying on the rankine case.

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my defence is basically

I never received an agreement

I had faulty goods under the sale of goods act

I didnt receive a legible copy of the agreement even when the judge ordered them to until the 3rd time, some 7 months later when 1st requested.

There are terms missing from the agreement & it is a s18 agreement being a debtor/creditor/supplier agreement.

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Only that if AMex have securitised your Credit Card Debt they may/may not be the legal owners of the debt dependant on where the securitisation took place. If as this thread suggests the securatisation took place in the USA then they are no longer the owners of the debt and have no standing before the UK court. Also if the Debt was sold to a Venture fund as a SPV (Special purpose Vehicle) the actual ownership could be spread over dozens of defferent companies many of which would not have Consumer Credit licenses which is a big NO NO.

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Only that if AMex have securitised your Credit Card Debt they may/may not be the legal owners of the debt dependant on where the securitisation took place. If as this thread suggests the securatisation took place in the USA then they are no longer the owners of the debt and have no standing before the UK court. Also if the Debt was sold to a Venture fund as a SPV (Special purpose Vehicle) the actual ownership could be spread over dozens of defferent companies many of which would not have Consumer Credit licenses which is a big NO NO.

 

Hi miffedpuppy

 

I am also in battle with Amex and have asked their solicitors if they could confirm if the alleged debt is securitised or not. I did not get any response either way. I could incorporate this in a motion (I am in Scotland by the way), but I have not seen any precedent in relation to securitisation being used to stike out a claim?

 

What would the legal argument be?

 

Regards

 

Monty

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I am being taken to court by HFC personal loans for a sofa via DFS. The sols are using the Rankines VS American Express case to prove they HFC dont need a Credit agreement.

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Well all day I have re-read over & over the judgement papers. I have read the 5 lenders etc, but I cant understand the link the sols are going down. There exact words on there skeleton argument are " the claimant will rely on the case of American Express V Rankine His honour judge simon brown QC Birmingham Civil Justice Centre 16/5/08 is authority for the proposition that failure to comply with a request made under section 78 cca 74 does not prevent the creditor from commencing proceedings."

 

So now I am confused, I dont understand their angle & i have read the court papers online & see no real mention to the American Express case, it covers mainly the Tescos & HFC loans / credit cards.

Any advice for me would be gratefully received!

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With regard to AmEx i would have thought an application under CPR31 for disclosure would get this information, although I am not sure under what part some one would know.

The question of the securitisation would be vital to your case, as stated in the other thread I mentioned it seems that AmEx whole business model was based on securitising the cards and loans debts. If as suspected they have securitised them in the USA the Federal Law on securitsation requires that the whole debt is sold "lock stock and barrell" this means they only act as a collection agent. If this is true it would mean they have no legal standing before a UK court. The question is how to get them to admitt to this?

Perhaps a N244 application to the court under CPR 31.16 for this information to be confirmed or as the author of post# 7 suggested an affidavit from them declaring the debt has not been securitsed.

Without your full knowledge of who actually owns the debt how can you defend it.

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I would very politely suggest that the issue of securitisation is uncharted territory, without any precedence, and not tested by an experienced cagger.

 

Can I suggest that Walshy search the forums for defences about Rankine, I know I have read them, and concentrate on blowing that argument out of the water, without even thinking about testing the very thin ice which is securitisation.

 

My view would be that if they want to rely on Rankine, they are on thin ice - go find those defences.

 

Vdr

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Well all day I have re-read over & over the judgement papers. I have read the 5 lenders etc, but I cant understand the link the sols are going down. There exact words on there skeleton argument are " the claimant will rely on the case of American Express V Rankine His honour judge simon brown QC Birmingham Civil Justice Centre 16/5/08 is authority for the proposition that failure to comply with a request made under section 78 cca 74 does not prevent the creditor from commencing proceedings."

 

That is what Rankine says - HOWEVER it does not say that they don't have to produce a copy/original within the county court claim

So now I am confused, I dont understand their angle & i have read the court papers online & see no real mention to the American Express case, it covers mainly the Tescos & HFC loans / credit cards.

Any advice for me would be gratefully received!

 

The Case is Rankine v Amex and others (tescos etc)

 

Can you post their skeleton argument

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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If you look at paragraph 10 of the Judgment - that I presume is what they are relying on

 

Mishcon de Reya, Solicitors, London : News and Events : Articles : Judgment: Basil Rankine vs American Express Services Europe Limited

 

I have to say that IMO you don't have to worry too much - I'm pretty sure that we can sort out a response.

 

If they have filed a skeleton presumably there is a hearing - when is it and what is it for?

 

You really do need to post the claim and your defence together with any orders and any applications that have been made

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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will do give me 5 to get this done, would it help if i anwered any question you have?

 

 

I need to know exactly whats' happening and then we can sort out an appropriate response - tho' I may not be able to look at it until some time tomorrow afternoon...

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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Comment

The court's strident and blunt approach is to be welcomed. This includes the statement at paragraph 9 that the Consumer Credit Act was introduced to protect the individual unsophisticated in financial affairs in contracts with unscrupulous and sophisticated financial institutions. It was not designed to help individuals in the financial services business make money out of financial institutions through exploiting its undoubted technicalities. In the latter regard, the court did not hesitate to dismiss the Rankines' various arguments in a commensurate tone.

 

 

However, with respect, it is submitted that Mr Justice Simon Brown QC was mistaken when he stated, at paragraph 16:

 

 

'In the Tesco case, where they are seeking enforcement, section 78(6) of the Act does not have the effect contended for by the Rankines. First, the prohibition is against a creditor 'under an agreement'. The agreement was at an end. Therefore there is no reason why there cannot be enforcement. Secondly, the

[2008] GCCR 7701 at 7713

 

word 'enforce' is not descriptive of the commencement of proceedings. Bringing proceedings during a time when the agreement has been brought to an end is only a step taken with a view to enforcement. It is not actually enforcement.'

The grounds for questioning the statement are the following:

 

 

 

 

  • (ii) The Agreements Regulations identify 'creditor' and 'debtor' with reference to their respective descriptions irrespective of the status of the agreement. In other words, the expressions are used to identify the relevant parties under, or to, the agreement.

 

  • (iii) The expression 'enforce an agreement' is utilised in the Act to mean to take steps to assert one's rights under the agreement, regardless of whether the agreement has come into force, is still extant or has been ended. Thus, section 65 of the Act uses the expression 'enforceable' when referring to whether an improperly executed regulated agreement is enforceable against the debtor on an order of the court. Section 127 refers to enforcement orders in the case of infringement. Applying for an order under this section might amount to seeking enforcement of the agreement, as the heading to Part IX also suggests, namely: 'Enforcement of certain regulated agreements and securities'.

Case summary and comments prepared by D Rosenthal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

this is from the law report off Goode CCLR ,hope it helps

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What is the hearing tomorrow?

If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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