£30k loan CCJ - sold on - Paying £1PCM DCA sols want more

[Spamalot]

Just posting this thread for you,

 

It may come in handy.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/179944-default-notice-period-7-a.html#post1962004

[OnMyWayOut]

The seven days are from the date of the letter, and I know I received it four days after the date of the letter because I called and made a token payment and put a dated note on the letter.

 

Nice one!

 

Thanks, Spamalot.

[OnMyWayOut]

...if the OC sells the account AFTER obtaining a CCJ, can we apply for re-determination on the grounds that the debt is now valued at around 10% of the original value, as that's all the debt purchaser has paid for it? Can we ask the court to assess the current value based on how much it was sold for (a pro-rata of all the debt on the same Deed of Assignment)?

 

In fact, can we ask the court to also take this into account if the debt is sold before court action and the new owner tries to get a CCJ?

[OnMyWayOut]

Is it possible to request at (or even after) a Final Charging Order hearing for evidence to be presented showing that the solicitors have actually written to and received confirmation from the other creditors that they have no objections?

 

Could I request copies by SAR?

 

Just a thought....

[Joxer]

Good question OnMyWayOut.

 

I am in the same situation regarding a Charging Order, where I wasn't going to challenge it, but now wish to. I have until Tuesday to object to the Land Registry, so need an answer very quickly and I'm certain they haven't informed my other creditors as they would have objected.

Maybe inform the Land Registry/Court that you have sent an SAR and await the results before they make the CO final?

I'll keep bumping this thread.

 

Anybody?

Edited August 13, 2010 by Joxer
grammar

[miss muppet]

Hi Guys,

 

Don't know whether the following link could help but here it is anyway:-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?265332-Help-require-with-Default-Judgement-Redetermination-Set-Aside-Interim-Charging-Order-Final-Charging-Order

[OnMyWayOut]

I couldn't find reference to what I wanted there, but thanks anyway, it was an interesting thread.

 

I'm wondering at what stage does the solicitor have to inform the other creditors and can we ask to see copies of all the letters sent out and received to confirm that there were no objections (and that the others were informed in the first place). At my FCO hearing the judge asked if the other creditors had been informed, to which their stand-in said yes, but how do I know for certain?

[Joxer]

Bumping.

[Joxer]

Bumping again!

[debbbbsy]

You can SAR a solicitor. But they may take longer then the 40 days. They have to supply all data they hold.

But if you require specific documents, you should use one of the CPR rules. You can then give them a specific deadline, 21 days is reasonable, but if time is an issue, and & they have stated that they have the documents then give them 7 days. If they fail to comply, you can then apply to the courts for full disclosure.

 

Debs

[OnMyWayOut]

Thanks Debs, but this is after the fact, rather than as a defence. I'm looking for additional reasons to seek the overturn of a CO a couple of years on.

[regan11]

I am having probems with a firm of solicitors who refuse to comply with my SAR so I shall be following your thread with interest.[same sort of issues]

Good Luck

[Ganymede]

Did the Claimant's solicitors bundle include a witness statement saying that they served the other creditors?

 

They should really have included copies of the letters to the other creditors serving the ICO on them.

[OnMyWayOut]

No bundles were exchanged for the final CO hearing. The judge asked the stand-in solicitor for if the other creditors had been informed and if they didn't object, to which he answered yes. Not thinking about at the time, I didn't query, but perhaps should have asked for proof. If I SAR one of the other creditors (as I need to anyway) can I ask them to produce any communications relating to me between them and the relevant solicitors (assuming they are not using the same solicitors themselves)? Would they have to produce it if so?

[OnMyWayOut]

Is it possible to request confirmation from a court hearing (civil debt) of something that was said by the judge that was not stated in the judgement? I am in dispute with the creditor over some details and need to confirm what the judge said. I don't really want to pay £75 or more for a transcription if at all possible.

[rebel11]

If you give your local county court a ring they should be able to tell you how much it would cost.

[OnMyWayOut]

I've looked at the SRA and Law Society web sites but they seem to be biased towards making complaints about solicitors who have been acting on your behalf. I want to complain about the actions of the solicitor appointed by a post-judgement debt buyer who has been misrepresenting the facts regarding ownership, interest and repayments. Is there a way to get these people reported? Can I go to the court, MoJ, OFT, FOS, SRA or anyone else. I don't want to put up too much information, and I'll happily research once I've been pointed in the right direction.

[The Debt Star]

Why don't you express your grievances to the firm in question first? Write to their Senior Partner and state why you believe they are acting contrary to the professional conduct rules. Establsih what rules, specifically, the firm are breaking in their conduct towards you. If you don't get a response / or get a response that is unacceptable, then you go to the Legal Ombudsman.

[Killerschick]

Hi,

 

As you rightly say the bodies established to deal with complaints about legal professionals are more concerned with how they have dealt with their client than any third party. In my experience there is little point complaining to any of these bodies about the actions of solicitors in debt collection as the solicitor will most likely argue that by acting in the best interests of their client they will naturally come into conflict with the interests of the debtor. Debt star's suggestion of complaining to someone senior in the firm particularly if it is one individual that is responsible for these actions. To find details of who to complain to you can either look around the firm's own website to see who heads up the office or team you are dealing with or look up the firm on the Law Society website here:-

 

http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/choosingandusing/findasolicitor.law

 

Look for the branch you are dealing with and then look for the regulated principals at that branch to find the senior people, some branches might not have regulated principals in which case look at the head office and the regulated principals there.

 

Some other points to consider - has the solicitor made these misrepresentations of their own accord or are they simply acting as instructed by their client? If they are just acting as instructed do you have anything to suggest they are knowingly making misrepresentations? Often the issues that appear to be with the solicitor really stem back to the creditor instructing them and they are just doing what they are told.

 

If you want someone to intervene in your complaint then FOS might be the route to go down but they only deal with regulated agreements (either under the Financial Services and Markets Act (mortgages since 2004) or the Consumer Credit Act (CCA)). If the debt is CCA regulated then they can only consider issues which have arisen since they got jurisdiction in April 2007 and you need to have exhausted the complaints process of the creditor first.

 

If you want your grievance about the solicitor lodged with the potential that some action might be taken if other people are having similar issues, you could complain to the OFT. Most solicitors are covered by the group licence for the Law Society but if a particular firm is found to be acting improperly, the OFT can take action to exclude them from the group licence or to limit the activities they can undertake such as preventing them engaging in debt collection. That said, I don't know of any cases where this has happened. Some solicitors firms have their own licences, for example Shoosmiths, you can check whether the firm you are dealing with has its own licence on the public register here:-

 

http://www2.crw.gov.uk/pr/Default.aspx

 

If they do have their own licence action can be taken against them in the same way as against any other licensee. The disadvantage of complaining to the OFT is that they can't intervene to get any money back for you and you may not get much of a response. If you do want to complain their email address is [email protected].

 

Regarding the actual issues, ownership, interest and repayments I quite understand you don't want to say too much so I'll just put in my two penneth on interest on judgment debts. In relation to CCA regulated debts you can't claim post judgment statutory interest by virtue of the County Courts (Interest on Judgment Debts) Order 1991. On CCA regulated debts contractual interest can be claimed if it is in the original contract that interest may be charged after judgment and in the particulars of claim, (Director General of Fair Trading v First National Bank plc) but a judgment debtor can apply for a time order to combat this.

 

Good luck KC

[Bazooka Boo]

http://www.legalombudsman.org.uk/

Complain to them.

[dadofholly]

http://www.legalombudsman.org.uk/

Complain to them.

 

They only take complaints against solicitors that you yourself have been using. And even then only after you have exhausted their complaints procedures.

 

I believe the SRA is the best to complain to about your situation - would also try the MOJ.

 

Would not be a firm with the initials of T&R would it?

Edited February 3, 2011 by dadofholly
Its SRA not SAR

[OnMyWayOut]

Hi All, thanks for the pointers - I'll have a think about what would be best. I think that some of their behaviour and actions may help me to counter the CCJ, so I don't want to complain too early and show my hand to the b******s.

 

Even if they are acting under instruction from their client, they would still be complicit if they were knowingly passing out false or misleading information as far as I understand it.

[Killerschick]

Hi Again,

 

The solicitor could be deemed to be complicit if they were knowingly making misrepresentations on behalf of their client. Depending on the severity of what they are doing it could be an offence under the Fraud Act 2006 either by false representation under section 2:-

 

2Fraud by false representationE+W+N.I.

 

(1)A person is in breach of this section if he—

(a)dishonestly makes a false representation, and

(b)intends, by making the representation—

(i)to make a gain for himself or another, or

(ii)to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.

(2)A representation is false if—

(a)it is untrue or misleading, and

(b)the person making it knows that it is, or might be, untrue or misleading.

(3)“Representation” means any representation as to fact or law, including a representation as to the state of mind of—

(a)the person making the representation, or

(b)any other person.

(4)A representation may be express or implied.

(5)For the purposes of this section a representation may be regarded as made if it (or anything implying it) is submitted in any form to any system or device designed to receive, convey or respond to communications (with or without human intervention)

 

Or (less likely) by abuse of position under section 4:-

 

4Fraud by abuse of positionE+W+N.I.

 

(1)A person is in breach of this section if he—

(a)occupies a position in which he is expected to safeguard, or not to act against, the financial interests of another person,

(b)dishonestly abuses that position, and

©intends, by means of the abuse of that position—

(i)to make a gain for himself or another, or

(ii)to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.

(2)A person may be regarded as having abused his position even though his conduct consisted of an omission rather than an act.

 

You could take this to the police but frankly I think you would probably be wasting your time as even if evidence was found to bring a criminal prosecution it wouldn't benefit you personally. A criminal prosecution is also extremely unlikely as the burden of proof is higher than for civil cases and a big issue would be proving they were knowingly making the misrepresentations. It would also be hard to bring this type of prosecution when dealing with a firm as the various parties within the firm can blame each other.

 

As for the use of a SAR as a form of complaint I don't understand the relevance? A SAR is used to gather information to see if there is a case not to make a complaint. Perhaps this was a typo and dadofholly meant the SRA or Solicitor's Regulation Authority and they will take on complaints about fraud or dishonesty even from third parties, for more information see their website:-

 

http://www.sra.org.uk/consumers/problems/fraud-dishonesty/dishonesty-suspected.page

 

As far as I am aware the MOJ have no role in the regulation of solicitors other than when they are acting as claims managers which doesn't appear to be the case here so I cannot understand the point in making a complaint to them either. You can check an alphabetical list of the MOJ's responsibilities here:-

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/about/our-responsibilities.htm

 

If you don't want them to be aware of your complaint then obviously complaining to a senior partner or to the creditor and then FOS are out but you could still lodge your complaint with the OFT as they won't disclose details of it without your authority.

 

KC

[OnMyWayOut]

Is there an official route to complain to the courts about being pressured to increase payments due under a CCJ, and the adding of interest to a CCA-related debt? It sounds like contempt of court or subverting justice or something similar, but I'm not sure whether to write to the court or fill in a form, etc.

[the_shadow]

Is there an official route to complain to the courts about being pressured to increase payments due under a CCJ, and the adding of interest to a CCA-related debt? It sounds like contempt of court or subverting justice or something similar, but I'm not sure whether to write to the court or fill in a form, etc.

 

Hi OnMyWayout.

 

the following may help with the CCA judgment interest bit of your query...

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/entry.php?191-Post-judgment-interest-on-CCA-regulated-debts

 

As to increaseing the payments, the court has set the repayment amounts I take it? or is this an agreement between yourself and the creditor on a forthwith judgment?

 

S.