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    • This is more than helpful. Thank you so much. I will get the cca done tomorrow and post the reply from them for what to do next. Thank you all again. 
    • 12+2 working days.   a dca can't hurt you credit file any more anyway.   only the original creditor can issue and register a default, on or before the sale of the debt.   what the dca put in the calendar section is immaterial as only you and them can see it it does not extend the 6yrs period whereby the debt shows on your file and after which the 6th defaulted date's birthday causes the whole file to removed regardless to paid or not, paying or not......makes no odds. it still goes, but might still be owed mind, depending upon the contents of the CCA return.   dx  
    • Hello   I agree with dx100uk.   Send them a CCA request which is a request for them to produce the original agreement that gives rise to the debt.  They have a limited amount of time (I think around fifteen days) to send you the document.   Here are the possible follow-ons from that:   1. They don't respond within 15 days and so you are legally entitled to stop paying until they do send a response. 2. They send a letter saying they have gone back to the original creditor to ask for the document and they need more time.  You (legally) stop paying after fifteen days and don't pay them again until they send proof. (This is the most likely first response as they wont have any of your documentation as they bought your debt as part of 1000 others on a spreadsheet on a CD ROM or USB stick). 3. They send you something that looks like a contract or which might be something else that they want you to think is the contract within the time frame.   After either of the above  whatever they send you should be referred back here for an assessment as they will often send you unsigned documents or made up bits of nonsense.  Even if the contract turns out to be the genuine one it still might not be enforceable due to errors made by the creditor at the time of signing.   The only potential downside to the above is that they could try to damage your credit record but probably it is as much damaged as it can be by this debt already so nothing else they can do will make it worse.   Following on from the above you can continue to not pay them.  I would setup an on-line savings account and pay yourself the money instead which has the advantage of creating a resource in case you need to resume payments in the future.   They may send you further letters either inducing you to resume payments by threat or by offering you a deal.  If the document is not valid then the only deal you need to take is the one you unilaterally entered into at T plus 15 days when you agreed with yourself not to pay them another penny.   It is not impossible that they will send you a letter saying the debt is unenforceable (miraculously I have actually seen one!) and asking you to pay anyway which you will of course ignore as you should not be giving any member of this low life industry any encouragement.  
    • I agree and I've no doubt that will happen in the future, but if a court claim is issued and a ccj successfully registered against the debtor then it will never be sb anyway, so are we more likely to see more court claims in the future ?      Can it not work both way though, if the sb date is ultimately aligned to the date of the default notice, essentially giving the creditor 6 years to collect or issue a court claim then regardless of when the debt was last acknowledged / payment made, a debtor could just tell the creditor to eff off after the 6 years is up, figuratively speaking     
    • Received acknowledgement of defence submission from court. VCS now have the option of continuing their claim or not. Watch this space !!!!
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Hi there,m hope someone can advise me on something.

 

basically i had a baliff turn up at my home today at 9:50 from Equita for missed payments of CT which ive been in touch with our ct office to sort out.

Anyway before he left he posted a notice of seizure and inventory goods they call it a form 7,. he has filled all the details out and has even listed my car which i should have parked somewhere else so they caught me out :(

there is also a walking possession intergrated with it which i havent signed and wont do, but i just want to know what to do now

 

many thanks

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Guest Happy Contrails

You need to start your own thread (A mod will hopefully move it retrospectively).

 

The bailiff cannot unilaterally fill in his own Form 7 and hand it to you, its a Notice of Seizure and that only happens when the debtor shows he cannot or will not pay the debt or make an agreement to do so. He has probably done this to unlawfully increase the fees he plans to obtain from you.

 

A walking possession agreement without your signature is not valid because you have not agreed to walking possessions, again this is probably to increase his fees so check his documents he left behind.

 

The law prescribing bailiffs fees for collecting unpaid council tax is the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 and provides £24.00 for a first visit and £18.00 for a second visit if one is made. No other bailiff's fees can lawfully be charged if a bailiff has not moved your goods in a vehicle and you have not signed any document consenting to a levy or a walking possessions agreement (currently a flat rate of £10).

 

If the bailiff has charged you more then £18+VAT then phone the council, tell them their bailiff has been caught cheating with his fees and commits an offence under Section 2 and 4 of the Fraud Act 2006 and ask they take the council tax debt back into town hall administration. Remind the council they are liable for their bailiffs when they are caught defrauding a member of the public. If the council is uncooperative or vexatious then quickly contact the local government ombudsman.

 

Phone the bailiff on his mobile and tell him you are filing a Form 4 complaint against him for defrauding you with his fees. Ask him for the name of the court that issued his bailiffs certificate and quickly end the call. If the bailiff refuses to disclose it then phone the Ministry of Justice Public Register of Bailiffs on 020 3334 6355 and ask which court issued his certificate. Download the complaint form to make an official complaint against the bailiff http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/form4_0606.pdf and send the form to the certificating court enclosing supporting evidence such as the bailiffs document showing the bailiffs fees he is trying to charge and any amounts paid.

 

When done, write to the council: (tweak as needed)

 

Council Tax (Enforcements) Department

Invincible Borough Council

Address 1

Address 2

Address 3

Postcode

 

[DATE]

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: [YOUR NAME & ANY REF]: Visit by your bailiff on [DATE]

 

I have had an opportunity to seek advice and I write on the understanding that case law has ruled an authority is liable for its bailiffs.

 

On [DATE] I was visited by your bailiff collecting unpaid council tax. We were unable to reach an amicable resolve and the bailiff showed threatening behaviour and became defensive and vexatious in nature. He made unrealistic demands of money which are way beyond my means and has been caught cheating with his fees by charging unlawful amounts contrary to regulations.

 

I now ask the Council to:

 

a) Take the case back from the bailiff.

b) Accept my original offer to pay £[AMOUNT] a week to clear the arrears

c) Pay me a reasonable compensation for my inconvenience and for my efforts in seeking discovery of information and

d) Receiving an over-zealous bailiff acting for you making unrealistic demands of money and defrauding me with his fees.

 

If you fail to satisfactorily complete the above I will automatically escalate the complaint to the local government ombudsman in fourteen days from the date of this letter. Please treat this letter as Stage 1.

 

Due to my circumstances I am unable to pay the debt as demanded by the bailiffs and I will make payment of £[AMOUNT] each month for [NUMBER OF] monthly installments with a final installment of £[AMOUNT]. This may seem a long time but it's all I can afford and allows me to pay future liabilities without falling into arrears. I confirm I am not refusing to pay this debt.

 

This letter is delivered by Royal Mail and deem properly served on you by the ordinary course of post under Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978. It is now your responsibility and in your own interests this letter is handed to the relevant person within your organisation.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

[NAME]

Enc 1st payment.

 

And send this to the bailiff by post and by email

 

The Omnipotent Bailiff Co, Plc

Their Address 1

Their Address 2

Their Address 3

Postcode

 

BY POST AND BY EMAIL

 

DATE

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: [YOUR NAME + REF]: Your fees.

 

I write following visits by your bailiff however there appears to an irregularity with your fees and I am writing to ask you to provide me the following within seven (7) days:

 

1) The name of the court that issued the certificate for the bailiff in charge

 

2) Written confirmation of a) your fees, and b) the original debt

 

3) The name and address of the organisation that instructed you

 

4) a) Truthfully confirm in writing your fees are lawful and comply with legislation or b) refund me the unlawful fees plus reasonable compensation for being cheated by your certificated bailiff with his fees by midday the seventh day from the date of this letter.

 

A bailiff or any other person who dishonestly charges for work that has not been done will be committing an offence under the Fraud Act 2006. Section 2 of the Act specifically describes a person dishonestly makes a false representation and intends, by making the representation, to make a gain for himself or another, or cause a loss to another, or expose another to a risk of loss therefore, if no satisfactory refund is made to me by 12.00 midday seven (7) days from the date of this letter I will automatically file a complaint to police under the 2006 Fraud Act and the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002. If you have charged VAT on unlawful fees then you may be reported for VAT fraud and your documents will be given in evidence. If your bailiff is certificated, a Form 4 will be filed.

 

This letter is delivered by Royal Mail and deem it good service upon you by the ordinary course of post under Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978. It now is your responsibility and in your best interests this letter is handed to the relevant person within your organisation.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

YOUR NAME

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Hi Happy thanks for reply, ok that all sounds stright forward

 

so what do i do about my car well its my partners car, can they still remove it from the property???

 

As im a bit worried he will need it for work

 

Many Thanks

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Now I may be a doubting thomasina here,BUT in my experience it is harder to get anyone to sit up and take notice.

I have asked for information regarding "fees" using a SAR, Data protection Act and The FOI. All they have sent me is a statment showing the amounts but not ANY other info. So LEVY fees have been applied but no proof he has levied. And it seems the courts are very wary of this, 1 man I spoke to at the court told me he had never dealt with a complaint against a bailiff (he was rather young). So how are we to make them sit up and listen? Complain en masse???

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Hi Happy thanks for reply, ok that all sounds stright forward

 

so what do i do about my car well its my partners car, can they still remove it from the property???

 

As im a bit worried he will need it for work

 

Many Thanks

Has your partner got the log book?

I believe if he has and they try to take it then they are commiting theft, I also believe they have 14 days to contact DVLA to confirm correct ownership, I wonder if this is the only thing listed on the levy and ownership is proved, then levy fees/walking possession invalid???

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hi there Cas,

 

yes he does have the logbook and in his name

 

thanks

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actuall what i would like to do if i am allowed is to scan this form 7 he has filled out... and the letter which came with it? so you guys can then see it and judge for yourself.

 

 

thanks

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Guest Happy Contrails
so what do i do about my car well its my partners car, can they still remove it from the property???

 

If the debt is in your partners name then yes they can take it. Otherwise the bailiff commits an offence under Section 12 of the Theft Act 1968 and your partner will have a right to claim the replacement cost of the car on a like-for-like basis and charge it to the creditor who instructed the bailiff.

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no the debt is in my name only, so that means they cannot touch the car atall then??

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Guest Happy Contrails

I have asked for information regarding "fees" using a SAR, Data protection Act and The FOI.

 

FOI is about asking a public authority to disclose information.

 

A SAR is about accessing personal data. Getting a breakdown of fees from a bailiff is not defined as personal data under the Act. A simple letter is all that's needed to get a fee-breakdown, if a bailiff hides behind the Data Protection Act or asks for 10-quid then file a Form 4 - it costs nothing.

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Guest Happy Contrails
actuall what i would like to do if i am allowed is to scan this form 7 he has filled out... and the letter which came with it? so you guys can then see it and judge for yourself.

 

 

thanks

 

Yes but remove your name and address from the scanned document.

 

And no, he cant legally take your partners car, but I will suggest making it safe or moving it away until the matter is settled.

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hi guys

 

here are the scanned docs i promised, ive deleted details as neccessary, but left the baliffs details :wink:

 

sorry guys but i can only upload as attachments hope this is ok for you

 

 

thanks

BAILIFF AEHOr7AL.jpg

notice of seizure form 7.jpg

Edited by stevens247
sorry images to small to read

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sorry just reposting the images sorry for the wait

 

 

thanks

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Guest Happy Contrails

Too small but it looks like a Form 7 and you havn't signed it. Use the letters above and keep this one handy to give to the bailiff through a window when he returns.

 

To: [NAME OF BAILIFF]

 

BY HAND

 

[DATE]

 

Dear Bailiffs,

 

Re: Your visit to [1st LINE OF ADDRESS]

 

The council appears to have instructed you to recover council tax arrears/parking ticket from me however, as I have already cleared all debts therefore no money is due.

 

This letter gives you notice that you are being denied peaceful entry to my home or to levy goods contained within and I will not be signing anything for you. This notice revokes your eligibility to charge a Walking Possessions fee or other fee relating to the handling of goods.

 

Please be advised it is not a "criminal offence" to deny a bailiff entry to my property, if you suggest otherwise I will report you to the police under Section 25 of the Theft Act 1968 and you may receive a criminal record . Meanwhile please provide me with a written breakdown of your fees you have demanded and put it through the letterbox.

 

A bailiff who dishonestly charges for work that has not been done will be committing an offence under the Fraud Act 2006. Section 2 of the Act specifically describes a person dishonestly makes a false representation and intends, by making the representation, to make a gain for himself or another, or cause a loss to another, or expose another to a risk of loss therefore, if no satisfactory refund is made to me within 24 hours from now I will automatically file a complaint to police under the 2006 Fraud Act and the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002. If you have charged VAT on unlawful fees then you may be reported for VAT fraud and your documents will be given in evidence. If you are certificated, a Form 4 will be filed.

 

This document has been passed to you by hand and a photograph of you standing outside reading it has just been taken as proof of delivery. I now ask that you quietly leave the property.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

YOUR NAME

 

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Guest Happy Contrails

Reading the Form 7, the outstanding council tax is £402.68. The law only provides for the bailiff to charge for his one visit the bailiffs fees which is £24.50 - nothing else.

 

The bailiff is trying to defraud you by £185.

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so would there be any chance of claiming that back at somepoint???

 

thanks

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Guest Happy Contrails

Yes, you reclaim if from the council. Use the Small Claims Track ifnecessary and you can do it online: https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco/index.jsp then follow the courts directions. The council is liable for its bailiffs where they have overcharged you, they may try and weedle out by trying to persuade you to name their bailiff as a co-defendant in your claim.

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ok first things first i think is to print out all the letters you gave me templates for and tweak as neccessery then send them, give the last letter to to baliff guy RUDY lol and take it from there

 

 

 

 

thanks once all is sorted i will be kindly donating to this forum

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Just to let you all know that all letters have been amended and printed, im just about to go to post office and send them recorded delivery.

 

Just have to sit and wait now:-)

 

Guys thankyou for your help and i will keep you all updated as and when it happens

 

Thanks

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FOI is about asking a public authority to disclose information.

 

A SAR is about accessing personal data. Getting a breakdown of fees from a bailiff is not defined as personal data under the Act. A simple letter is all that's needed to get a fee-breakdown, if a bailiff hides behind the Data Protection Act or asks for 10-quid then file a Form 4 - it costs nothing.

 

This is what I am saying, I have lodged a Form 4 citing non compliance of rule 12 section 2 of the Distress for Rent Rules 1988. But it seems that don't mean diddly squat to the courts. I have also spoken to a local bailiff and told him what had happened and he told me how to word the complaint, and the term used when bailiffs apply ficticious fees is " constructive distraint" it will just be my luck the judge has never heard of it.

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Guest Happy Contrails
im just about to go to post office and send them recorded delivery.

 

DO NOT send letters to a bailiff by recorded delivery. They will refuse signing and it will bounce back. See last paragraph of the letter.

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Guest Happy Contrails
rule 12 section 2 of the Distress for Rent Rules 1988. But it seems that don't mean diddly squat to the courts. I have also spoken to a local bailiff and told him what had happened and he told me how to word the complaint, and the term used when bailiffs apply ficticious fees is " constructive distraint" it will just be my luck the judge has never heard of it.

 

Casbah, I am not familiar with your case, if this complaint about an irregularity with a bailiffs fees for collecting unpaid rent? When you file a Form 4 for fee irregularities, it doesnt matter what the bailiff was trying to collect, you can quote Lord Lucas (house of Lords 20 April 2007) and Cullighan -v- Marston 8CL51015.

 

Case No 8CL51015 - Anthony Culligan (Claimant) v 1. Jason Simkin & 2. Marstons (Defendants). Before District Judge Advent 9th & 24th September 2008

Van Fees, the regulations allow 'reasoble costs' to attending with a van with a view to removing goods. In the case of Case No 8CL51015 - Anthony Culligan (Claimant) v 1. Jason Simkin & 2. Marstons (Defendants). Before District Judge Advent 9th & 24th September 2008 - the court ruled that Because the Bailiff produces no evidence as to how the charge had been arrived then he unable to show that it is reasonable.

 

Lord Lucas asked Her Majesty’s Government on 20 April 2007

 

Whether a bailiff who repeatedly charges for work that has not been done commits a fraud within the meaning of Sections 1 to 5 of the Fraud Act 2006; and, if so, which sections of the Act apply; and whether it would be right for the police to claim that such an action is a civil and not a criminal matter.

 

 

The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Scotland of Asthal):

 

A bailiff or any other person who dishonestly charges for work that has not been done will be committing an offence under the Fraud Act 2006. Section 1 of the 2006 Act contains the new general offence of fraud. Section 1 means by which this offence can be committed is set out in Section 2, on fraud by false representation. This section applies where a person dishonestly makes a false representation and intends, by making the representation, to make a gain for himself or another, or cause a loss to another, or expose another to a risk of loss. It is also possible that, where a bailiff repeatedly charges for work that has not been done, this conduct will amount to fraudulent trading either under Section 9 of the 2006 Act or under the provisions on fraudulent trading in company legislation.

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Happy

 

I have posted on other threads but a quick back ground.............

Bailiff claims to have called, charged me levy fees and enforcement ( van fees) 5 times.

I have asked for an explanation via SAR data protection and freedom of information act. All they send me back is, the amount the fees are, are correct.

So now I have lodged a form 4 with the court and they have said they will look at all the paperwork and see if he has commited an offence.

I found out my info on the Ministry of Justice web site and even supplied the court with copies of the e mails I received from the M of J and now just waiting to see.

I really feel this would be sorted if we complained en masse.

Cas

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Stevens, I'm not sure if you've seen my thread but I'm currently dealing with Equita over unpaid Council Tax as well.

 

I got exactly the same 2 letters posted through my door on a Saturday morning, listing my car which is on HP. I've since provided proof that the car is on finance but they turned up last Thursday and clamped it, so I'd get the car moved as far away as you can from where they saw it.

 

I'll keep looking on here to see how you get on, I've not had much response from the council or the bailiff since then, despite the bailiff assaulting me and it being reported to the police!

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