Penalty Fare Summons

[mjbenade]

Good day,

 

I am hoping to get some advice regarding a summons i received. It is from National Express, Liverpool street.The summons mentions railway byelaw 18(1).

 

Here is what happened, and can i say upfront, i know that i was wrong, i didnt have a ticket, i just want to make the best of a bad situation.

 

I travelled on the train from Bishops Stortford to Liverpool steet. A ticket inspector came around and asked me for my ticket, i said i didnt have one, so she asked me why, i told her i was late getting to the station, and didnt have time. I know thats not a valid excuse. She then told me i have to pay a panalty fare of £20.00. I got my Lloyds debit card out, she proceeded to process the transaction. The card wouldn't work in her machine, there was more than sufficient funds for the transaction. She tried again, and after not working a second time she told me she will have to report me. She took out her book and started writing, she asked me for my details and i gave it all. She then asked me some questions, which i couldn't hear clearly, i just said yes because i know i was wrong. She asked me to sign, i signed.

 

2 Months later i got a letter from the train company, i wrote back and said i was wrong, and i am willing to pay a fine for sorting out this issue. Then i got a summons this week, saying i have to be on court on 6 August. I have 3 options: Plead guilty and go to court, plead guitly and not go to court, and plead not guilty.

 

I don't want to get a crininal record, is there anything i can do to settle this before the court date?

 

Any help would be appreciated.

[imucky]

Hi...

Was you caution at anytime by the inspector?

Was your card solo or visa eletron?

 

18.

(1) In any area not designated as a compulsory ticket area, no person shall enter any train for the purpose of travelling on the railway unless he has with him a valid ticket entitling him to travel.

 

Thats what you have breached

 

You should write to the railway company prosecution department and send a cheque for the price of your ticket and explain that you may lose your job and money is very tight etc.etc

[mjbenade]

I figured out later that i was cautioned by the ticket inspector, but at the time when she said it the train was making so much noise that I couldn't hear her, I asked her to repeat it twice, still coulddn't hear her, and then just nodded. I didn't understand at the time what it was all about, seeing that it was my first time offense.

 

I have a Lloyds Visa debit card, not a Solo.

Edited July 8, 2009 by mjbenade

[SRPO]

I think you should tell them that you accepted the penalty fare notice at the time and offered payment but your card couldnt be processed.

I feel it would be unfair to prosecute you just because the card wouldnt work. Obviously, you need to ensure your card was of the type acceptable by the train company as some are not.

You need to work on the basis that they only have the inspectors statement and may not have all the facts.

From experience, if they do pursue the matter to court you would probably get an absolute discharge in these circumstances.

[mjbenade]

Thank you for the help, i sent them a letter this morning, will hope for the best and see what happens.

[Old-CodJA]

I think you should tell them that you accepted the penalty fare notice at the time and offered payment but your card couldnt be processed.

I feel it would be unfair to prosecute you just because the card wouldnt work. Obviously, you need to ensure your card was of the type acceptable by the train company as some are not.

You need to work on the basis that they only have the inspectors statement and may not have all the facts.

From experience, if they do pursue the matter to court you would probably get an absolute discharge in these circumstances.

 

 

I agree with SRPO here.

 

If this was a Penalty Fare Notice it does not have to be paid at the time.

 

Provided that you have given your correct name and address and satisfied the inspectors' request for confirmation of those details, the notice should have been issued allowing you 21 days for payment or appeal.

 

If the failure of your card was simply because it was a type not accepted by the rail company, then that is not sufficient grounds to change this to a prosecution case unless you had no other means of payment with you before travelling. As SRPO points out, it is your responsibility to ensure that you have acceptable means to pay.

 

If on the other hand, it transpired that you had no ticket and no means of payment available to you before travelling because the card was either not valid for use generally or was rejected by your bank then a prosecution report can be justified.

[mjbenade]

After sending a letter to the train company, I received a call from their prosecutions department, and they offered me an Out of court settlement, I paid the outstanding fare which is £12.50, and £100.00 for costs. The person handling the case was very friendly and helpful. Thank you for all your help, i have definitely learnt my lesson, and will not be making the same mistake in the future.

[SRPO]

Deleted.

Edited September 23, 2009 by SRPO

[Old-CodJA]

If what you say is true, they are out of order offering an out of court settlement. It should only come from you, it could be suggested they are demanding money with menaces i.e. pay us or we'll prosecute you, this would be an abuse of process.

 

Yes, if it's true the TOC made an offer, it seems likely that's why it was made via a phone call.

 

The Courts will accept that a payment in settlement may be reached and this may be considered to be mitigated costs, but it must be made clear that the person who has been reported does not have to agree any setllement and is not put at any disadvantage by considering it.

 

Everyone has the right to go to Court to argue their case if they wish, but if you chose to agree a settlement that is up to you.

[Stigy]

If what you say is true, they are out of order offering an out of court settlement. It should only come from you, it could be suggested they are demanding money with menaces i.e. pay us or we'll prosecute you, this would be an abuse of process.

TOCs make out of caourt settlements all the time. Bear in mind they are the 'victim' (loose term of the word, hence the quotations) here, so why is it ok for a member of the public to demand an out of court settlement when he/she has been hard done by, yet when a company offer one, they are demanding money by menesis?

 

To the point in hand, although I accept it's been sorted out now. If the card wouldn't work because of a fault with the RPIs machine, that a nil paid penalty fare should have been written, as a prosecution seems a tad OTT. However, if the card wasn't accepted by the company, you could argue that the person concerned had no means to purchase a ticket...

 

As for cautioning, the Revenue person wouldn't necessarily need to do this, for exaample if it was a Revenue Protection Assistant as opposed to an Inspector, they probably wouldn't have authority to Caution. Makes no difference to a prosecution, it just means the statement they write would be a statement of fact, with no Q and As on it (He was on such and such a train at such and such a time, and when asked, couldn't show a ticket etc etc.).

[SRPO]

Deleted.

Edited September 23, 2009 by SRPO