Aktiv Kapital are offering to wipe off two thirds of my £9k balance. Why?

[sane man]

Good day to you all.

 

Having recovered from almost fifteen years of alcoholism, I have, over the last three years, pretty much got my life back in order, save for the biggest cause of worry and anxiety that never left me during those drinking years: a relationship with Thames Credit, born out of an ill-advised £8k Barclayloan dating back to 1999 which I spectacularly failed to repay as my life continued to disintegrate around me. Anyway, long story short, in late 2007, after years of minimum payments and worry which didn't get me anywhere at all with the debt, I failed for the Nth time to make a one of my monthly payments to Thames Credit; shortly afterwards I was contacted by Buchanan Clark & Wells who were now after approximately £9,100 from me. In a state of panic, I searched the web and stumbled across your forums. Within a day I had sent a postal order for £1 together with a CCA request. This turned out to be a mistake on my part, but not wholly pointless, as I received a reply from Buchanan Clark & Wells post-dated November 2007, stating:

 

"I would advise that we do not hold copy Credit Agreements, as we are not the Creditor. However, I would advise that I have placed this account on hold and have asked our Client to forward the documents to you directly." (my £1 postal order was also returned!).

 

So, I sat tight...

...and heard nothing for over 19 months, until earlier this week when I received a letter; not from Buchanan Clark & Wells, nor from Thames Credit, but instead from Aktiv Kapital, offering a discount:

"Our aim is to help you clear the balance. We will do this by saving you [just over £6k] on the balance, as a special offer. That means you make a payment of [just under £3k] and we will clear the rest for you." ... "Call us free on 0800 xxx xxxx to take up our offer within the next 10 days. We will also discuss how many months you can pay this over."

 

Now, please bear in mind that this debt, however trivial it might seem to some, has caused me more anxiety, nausea, and irrational worries than most other things in my life, that I am inclined to come to some sort of agreement based around Aktiv Kapital's offer, as it seems I could finally see an end to all this worry. But, at the back of my mind, I can't help wondering why they've made this sudden offer after 19 months without any contact whatsoever. The tone of the entire letter constitutes the only 'friendly' debt-collector's letter I have ever encountered in nearly ten years of (often unpleasant) letters from such people. In the small print, near the foot of the letter, it reads:

 

"What if I don't pay?

It may your credit rating. You may not be able to obtain further credit until you have cleared your account balance with Aktiv Kapital Ltd."

 

...and that's the closest thing to a threat contained in the letter!

 

So, to summarise, three questions:

1. Why am I now (19 months on) dealing with Aktiv Kapital instead of either Thames Credit or Buchanan Clark & Wells?

2. Why have Aktiv Kapital made such an (arguably attractive) offer out of the blue?

3. And should I take them up on it before my 10 days are up? (This would be a terrific struggle, if I were to make 'realistic' payments, but I feel (or perhaps simply hope) that this would be counterbalanced by the feeling of a 'light at the end of the tunnel' finality to years of worry).

 

And thank you for taking the time to read!

Edited July 7, 2009 by sane man
poor maths!

[MARTIN3030]

Welcome to the site.

Will move your thread into the DCA forums.

It sounds like the account was assigned to Thames and they were using BCW as agents.Its not unusual for accounts to be passed around and sold on,but they have a responsibility to inform you of it.Its also a breach of OFT guidelines on debt collection for more than one to be collecting at the same time.

They should have had documentation if they are assignees.

You may be suprised at the offer to accept a third-but remember that they are likely to have bought this debt or alleged debt for a fraction of what they are asking you to repay-and have already repaid.

The best way to discover who owns this account is to take a look at your credit files,and make sure that the information recorded there is accurate and up to date.

Thames credit and Akitve Kapital are associated companies.

Edited July 7, 2009 by MARTIN3030

[cerberusalert]

So, to summarise, three questions:

1. Why am I now (19 months on) dealing with Aktiv Kapital instead of either Thames Credit or Buchanan Clark & Wells?

2. Why have Aktiv Kapital made such an (arguably attractive) offer out of the blue?

3. And should I take them up on it before my 10 days are up? (This would be a terrific struggle, if I were to make 'realistic' payments, but I feel (or perhaps simply hope) that this would be counterbalanced by the feeling of a 'light at the end of the tunnel' finality to years of worry).

 

 

1) As said above they're the same company.

 

2) Because they do not have an enforceable agreement, without which they cannot take any legal action. Although the debt still exists they are 'in a canoe without a paddle'.

 

3) That is completely up to you, but considering they only paid around 10% for the debt it leaves it wide open for negotiation, but if you do make sure part of the agreement includes them removing any adverse information from your credit file, and make sure everything is in writing.

[NailPost]

You made a legal request to one of Aktiv's associated companies for documentation and you paid the required fee. If the documents are not available the cretins are required to make a decent attempt at getting hold of them from the original creditors or handing the matter back to them. What they do with your quid is up to them - in this instance they sent it back but that doesn't absolve them from their responsibilities.

 

So you have the upper hand on the idiots who are now clamouring for your money. Tell them the matter is in dispute since whenever it was you made the CCA request. Suggest that without paperwork they are stuffed and wait for their next move.

[kurvaface]

If I was you, I would now go on the offensive.

 

They don't seem to have CCA and they are still asking you to pay something. I would report them to Trading Standards 08454 040506.

 

The only reason the are offering a discount is they don't have a leg to stand on.

 

try this for an offer

 

"Close this Account. Stop pestering me and rectify any entries on my credit file and I won't report you to every authority I can think of!"

[Allwood]

My partner has had the same experience with this company, she initially got a letter from BCW saying that they were acting on behalf of Thames credit. She sent them a CCR to which they returned £1 with a letter stating that Thames would send docs to her but this never happened. This **** company sent a letter out to her on a solicitors heading paper and that what trigger the CCA to them and also to the solicitors but on looking at the solicitors letter bar code at the top of the page it had BCW name on it.

 

When my partner got her CRA report and found that BCW and Wescot had put traces on it, she challenged this with the CRA and they said that they would investigate but after months had gone by she got reply stating that Wescot had not replied to them and they would be removing the search. She then sent a SAR to the OC to clarify what they held on her in relation to the BCW search. After months of protracted correspondence with the OC they finally sent her the SAR much later than the 90 days outside the maximum time allowed. Anyway the SAR revealed that there was no Agreement in the bundle only old bank statements whcih were illegable. After some more correspondence the the OC she finally got a letter from them saying that was all they held on her. No agreement, she then sent this letter to the CRA and they remove the BCW search, which was done.... as she got her report again the 2 search were removed from it.

 

This all took place in 2007/8, she complained to the ICO and they only replied last month saying basically that these organizations were not at fault and that there assessment was now complete????

 

Now she is getting letters from Wescot and Aktiv Kapital offering to give discount to her if she would make payments to them… Aktiv Kapital said that they were pleased to see that she had already made payment, which is lies as she made no payments or acknowledge any debt to Thames, BCW. These are statue barred debts and no agreement, surely the ICO should have seen that as all correspondence that were sent to them. Also in the ICO letter said that the search in relation to BCW should come off in June this year....but this was take off by the CRA last year if not before...I do not have the actually dates of their letter to hand at the minute but will check with her later today. No wonder these people are allowed to harass people if the ICO says that they are not committing any offence.

Edited July 8, 2009 by Allwood

[mercyblue]

Aktiv Kapital tend to buy alot of statute barred debts hence why they are giving you "such a nice offer" because basically they could well be entitled to er nothing at all.

[angry cat]

Because they probably only paid £800 approx. for the account!

 

AC

[sane man]

Firstly, thank you all for replying! It might sound trite, but just to have other people acknowledge my predicament eases my worries somewhat! Thank you all!

 

Anyway, I have taken time to consider the thoughts of all those who have thus far responded to the thread (although I had to re-read the experiences of Allwood's partner three times before I followed it! I only hope my future experiences in this area do not become as complex and drawn-out!). Now, although I know for certain it will make make for continued anxiety as I await "their next move", I have, for better or worse, decided not to enter into an agreement with Aktiv Kapital (their ten-day offer to wipe two-thirds from my account expires this Saturday, the 11th July, by the way). I am now considering two options:

1. Not responding at all, since it appears (or at least it can be inferred with some degree of certainty) that they currently lack an enforceable agreement, and therefore (as cerberusalert, NailPost and kurvaface have pointed out) can take no legal action against me (although I imagine I might at this point be told by forum members that a golden rule with alleged debts is for the alleged debtor to always stay in touch with the debtee. Please feel free to tell me off if this is the case here!).

2. Refer Aktiv Kapital to the CCA request I made to BC&W in November 2007, reminding them that 19 months of zero correspondence has elapsed since BC&W's response (quoted in my opening thread post, above), and informing them that unless a CCA is forthcoming I will regard any future contact as 'harassment' (or is that too strong?!)

 

I'm guessing that most of you would recommend some kind of variation on option '2' which I will of course welcome and consider. And, if you feel it would help, might anyone refer me to an appropriate 'letter template' which I might modify slightly in order to appropriate my needs?

It goes without saying that any other 'option' you feel I should look at will be seriously considered.

 

And thank you all again! Thanks to you I feel significantly better than I did two mornings ago!

[Gixer1100]

I have always taken the 'no response' at all approach with AKtive....

 

Sometimes it amuses me to write 'no longer at this address' on their un-opened letter and drop it back into the post

 

They dont go away - but letters appear to be the limit of their powers....

 

Please feel free - anyone - to correct me if I am wrong - my posts are all just IMHO

[sane man]

Gixer1100, it sounds like your experience with Aktiv Kapital is extensive! I could happily cope with 'impotent' letters from them, if this is, as you say, the "limit of their powers", so there's one vote thus far for option '1'!

As for option '2' I feel I may have found the most appropriate 'letter template' on the Consumer Fourums website, namely the "Letter when account has been passed on whilst agreement request is in dispute" template (see link below). Any members' thoughts on this will, it now goes without saying, be taken on board (apologies in the meantime, but I may not be able to reply until tomorrow evening now, as I simply must sleep! Good night, all.)

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/574-letter-when-account-has-been-passed-on-whilst-agreement-request-is-in-dispute

[Allwood]

Sane man these people have no power whatsoever to take you to court and the debt was probably statute barred anyway, so forget them they are just trying their arm...my partners got exactly the same letter as you and she know they have no agreement because they had to removed a search trace from her CRA report. She is collecting them to send to organisations that will hopefully take action against them.

 

Why not just send them a statute barred letter I am sure someone will come with good one for you to edit. That should get the parasites off your back for good.

[MARTIN3030]

I forgot to mention that I had exactly the same situation with an old Barclays account.

After 2 years of waiting for the CCA and getting their monthly threatograms-I went down to my local trading standards armed with the file.

In less than 7 days they had sorted it.

AK may make issues that you have previously made payments o the account.

Your defence and explanation in response is that you have only recently become aware that the agreement is unenforceable without documentation,and had you known this previously then would never have entered into any repayment agreements.

[pmhcfc]

Sane man these people have no power whatsoever to take you to court and the debt was probably statute barred anyway, so forget them they are just trying their arm...my partners got exactly the same letter as you and she know they have no agreement because they had to removed a search trace from her CRA report. She is collecting them to send to organisations that will hopefully take action against them.

 

Why not just send them a statute barred letter I am sure someone will come with good one for you to edit. That should get the parasites off your back for good.

 

The debt is clearly not statute barred as 'Sane Man' states he paid minimum payments for many years. Please be careful what you advise people (specially new members) on here, as the wrong advise could get people into trouble.

 

Sane Man- If a CCA request on this account remains unadhered to, then simple write to Aktiv Kapital and tell them as much. You merely have to state that this account is still in dispute with Thames Credit as they failed to supply you with a completed CCA request - and until your CCA request is furnished correctly the account remains in dispute and no acknowledgement of the debt exists on your part.

 

Just add a note which says that you have no wish to report them (AK) to the relevent authorities but you will be left with no choice (to do just that) if they keep harassing you unlawfully.

 

Keep us posted.

[Allwood]

I do apologise Sane Man for that I miss that bit about making regular payments. Obviously it is not statue barred if you have acknowledge the debt within the 6 year period.

 

However, these people do lie and in writing also...they have put it in writing in my partners letter stating that payments have been made. Surely they will have to prove proof of how the payments were made and who and when these so called were made to....this will be fun to see how they can do that since no payments have been made because the debt is statute barred and no agreement has been provided. And they had to removed searches from the CRA report because they could not provide proof of debt to them. No agreement within OC bundle under the SAR either.

[sane man]

Thanks, pmhcfc - I think I'm going to approach this in the way you suggest, initially by modifying the "Letter when account has been passed on whilst agreement request is in dispute" template found on the consumerforums.com site, referring Aktiv Kapital specifically to BC&W's response to my CCA request in November 2007 which stated:

 

"I would advise that we do not hold copy Credit Agreements, as we are not the Creditor. However, I would advise that I have placed this account on hold and have asked our Client to forward the documents to you directly."

 

(which to me implies BC&W made no effort to locate any agreement and threw the ball back to Thames Credit, from who I have never heard in the 19 elapsed months since).

 

I will keep you posted of proceedings, although, naturally, things may slow down as I'm likely only to be reporting on any correspondence sent to or from me, but, hopefully, weeks, months or even (Heaven forbid) years down the line, people in a similar predicament will be able to follow the thread to its (hopefully positive) conclusion and glean some reassurance and/or guidance from it. I'll 'compose' the "in dispute" letter this weekend, when I will be able to give its phrasing my undivided attention, sending it by recorded delivery next Monday or Tuesday (together with a £1 postal order if appropriate).

 

Again, many thanks to you all, and I'll let you know the moment the letter's posted!

Edited July 8, 2009 by sane man

[MARTIN3030]

Guidance from the FOS in late 2007 early 2008 was that they should send you a copy of their complaints procedures and update regularly when the account is in dispute.

Many now will send a temp letter to say that collection activity is suspended whilst they await docs from the OC.

By the book this is ok with the FOS who will say that just because there is no CCA it does not mean theres no debt-just that only a Court can force payments.

[pmhcfc]

 

I will keep you posted of proceedings, although, naturally, things may slow down as I'm likely only to be reporting on any correspondence sent to or from me, but, hopefully, weeks, months or even (Heaven forbid) years down the line, people in a similar predicament will be able to follow the thread to its (hopefully positive) conclusion !

 

Ok, but don't hold your breath - I'm still waiting for 5 CCA requests to be furnished and I've only been waiting 2 1/2 years - and now they're all very close to being SB'd ;-)