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    • Thank you everyone for your quick responses I just wish I posted here in the first place    I probably shouldn't have filled in the claim form however on the letter it said I had limited time to do so and because I was dealing with CST law trying to come to an agreement with paying off the debt I didn't think it would get to this point and now I have probably made my situation worst. Of course, I would have posted here first before sending it off had I not been in communication with CST to set up an agreement.    I sent the letter back to the court as some point in early August, the issue date on the claim form is 28th July and the most recent letter I have received 'Notice of fast track' is dated 18th November    If I am honest I can't fully remember what I wrote word for word in my defence, it would have been along the lines of why I left, my reasons and the fact I returned to my old career in an office plus taking a pay cut to do so. There wasn't much room to write a long winded defence so I kept it relativity short.   The above document Andy has posted is the exact document I am now looking at very confused in what exactly I put where    I just want to re-iterate I never agreed with this money I owe due to the training bond but it has gone on for so long at this point I'm happy to set up a payment plan if the balance can get reduced or a small one off payment upfront and this is exactly what I was trying to do prior to receiving the most recent letter    I have had zero communication from CST law, Centrica advised me to deal with them directly and I was waiting for a response from CST with the offer we had put across to Centrica - I chased it multiple times the following weeks and they kept telling me they haven't had a response and when they do we'll contact you which they still have not   Ideally I would rather not give them any money however I feel like I am out of options at what I probably should have done years ago is attempt to get it reduced and set up a payment plan    Please let me know if I have missed any critical info out    Thanks again for everyones help    What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim? I left a British Gas apprenticeship within the first 12 months of starting and went back to my old career in an office , my reasons for leaving were down to the completely differant job role which I realised quikcly was not for me and it was impacting my mental health massively. The claim is for a training bond which was in a contract I signed based on a sliding scale Year 1 - £9,000 year 2 £6,000 year 3 £3,000     What is the total value of the claim? £13433    Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? Yes   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No  Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Training bond due to leaving an apprenticeship before 3 years    When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After   Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? They have sent me a virtually signed document with the contract   Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? No   Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Centrica are claimant, CST law are dealing and the court   Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? I believe so yes   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? I have had multiple letters like everyone else who has been on the forum over the years regarding this matter   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? I am unsure, but when I left I had contested the original claim as I was dealing directly with Centrica’s collection team and they never got back to me after the final email I had sent and didn’t hear anything until years down the line   Why did you cease payments? N/A   What was the date of your last payment? N/A   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? Correct I oringinally contested what was owed back in 2017 and gave my reasons for leaving and I assumed the matter was closed   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No  
    • OK thanks again Andy.   And understood 👍😉
    • Thank you for this. The first thing to be say is that this means that you are winning. It is pretty well unheard of in my experience for the bank to give way and finally return the money. The fact that they have done this under the threat of a judgement for breach of statutory duty indicates even more that they are worried about their position. Nowhere have they indicated that they have complied with the requirements of the Proceeds of Crime Act and informed the National crime agency. I don't believe they have and this is a very serious breach of statutory duty. Not only that it is a very serious breach of the FCA BCOBS regulations in that they are required to treat you fairly. Treating you fairly in this case means that they must comply with the rest of their statutory duties. It appears that they really haven't done this at all and that they have acted in an arbitrary way in disregard of the law and that they are hoping to get away with it. I find myself wondering how many other hundreds of people have been treated in exactly the same way – and you are probably the first ever to have stood up to them and to get them worried. I think I've already indicated that a press contact of mine in the Sunday Times would be very interested in this story. He has already run stories about the very poor standards applied by banks when deciding that their customers are involved in some fraudulent behaviour. The first thing to say about the letter which you have received is that they are trying to apply conditions to releasing your own money. It's your money and there should be no conditions and my suggestion is that you object to this. Secondly, not only are they threatening to continue to withhold your own money – but also they are saying that if they release it to you you will simply have the net figure without any kind of interest or compensation. It's clear that while they have had your money, they have invested it and earn money on it. They have probably been lending it out at between 16% and 20% and although the usual rate of interest is 8%, it seems to me that justice can only be served by repaying you your money plus the commercial rate of interest – at a compound rate. Normally the 8% is calculated at simple. Thirdly, they are not offering to pay you any compensation and clearly they are hoping to get away with it without any kind of sanction or not even a slap on the wrist.   Fourthly, they had the nerve to impose a seven day deadline. Don't worry about their deadline. It's a load of huff and puff. This is all part of their bluff game designed to intimidate you. At the end of seven days – what? Are they then going to insist on going to court?   If they really believe that they had done everything correctly and that the money was fraudulent, then they would not offer it to you back under any circumstances. It would be illegal for them to do so. You can be certain that these people do not want to go to court. In fact they probably wish they had never started.   Finally, they want the matter to be kept confidential – and I can't say I blame them. I would be ashamed if people knew that I had treated somebody else in this way and I'm sure they are worried about reputational damage. I'm also sure that there are extremely worried about what will happen if you get a judgement against them for breach of statutory duty. It will have to be reported to the FCA. It will have to be reported to the NCA. And of course it should be reported to the newspapers because people need to know what is going on. If you want, you can simply accept their proposal – get your money back, given confidentiality – and that's the end of the matter. However, you have no idea how this will impact on your record in the future. I imagine that they will bar you from ever opening an account with them again. – But at least you will have your money and you can get on with your life. However, if you want you can stand your ground and make it clear to them that you are going to be mucked around and treated like this and that you are prepared to go to court if they won't make a proper offer. I understand that you need to pay a court fee of about £350 in the next seven days. I expect that the bank is making this offer now hoping to dissuade you from spending any more money and hoping that you will back down. If you have the money to proceed then I would suggest very strongly that it will be a very serious sign of strength that you tell the bank that you're not interested in that you are paying the fee for the next stage of the court process. If the bank knows that you've called their bluff on this and that you have been prepared to invest further money in moving this legal action forward, then they will start to reflect and I can perfectly well imagine that they will make you another more interesting offer – once again on conditions of confidentiality. Without seeing any further offer, I'm already suggesting that you will probably be best off turning it down. In any event, I would remind you going back several months that I already predicted that the bank would make you confidential offer – and that has happened. I'm not saying that I'm always going to be right here – but I think that now basically the bank have pretty well admitted that they need to pay you your money, there is no chance of you losing it. You will get your money and it really is just a question of how much else you will get in addition. If you'd like to continue then let me know and I will suggest a draft response to them.
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bankruptcy petition - please help


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Hi

Please can someone help me?

I have been filed with a bankruptcy petition for a large debt, which I cannot pay as both my partner and I have lost our jobs recently.

However, I am unsure what to expect, is this just a preliminary meeting to ascertain what assets we have etc and then have another court date to return or will we actually be made bankrupt tomorrow with all bank accounts frozen? This is the first court date, and was only filed with a statutory demand before.

We do not have any assets e.g. house/mortgage, car (well we have a little car, but isn’t worth anything as its practically on its way out and only worth £500 - which we do need to get my son to and from school etc, as live in a remote village with no real buses, and the school is 2 miles away). We currently live in rented accommodation, although I think they are under the belief the house we are living in belongs to us (and we have never had a mortgage), hence why I think they had instigated this bankruptcy petition.

Basically I just wanted to know what is likely to happen tomorrow and if we need to prepare / take along any information, as haven’t been given any good advice on what to do.

Thanks in advance for your help. ;)

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Hi and welcome

 

firstly is it a bancruptcy petition or a statute Demand.

 

secondly what is the debt Loan; Crdit Card, overdraft etc

 

thirdly who is chasing the Original creditor or a Debt collections agency

PGH7447

 

 

Getting There Slowly

---------

 

Advice is given freely but is in no way meant to be taken as Gospel:-)

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no its a petition. I have already had the statutory demand served.

 

I am to attend court tomorrow.

 

The debt is for £11,932 for school fees, both our sons when to private school, lost job and wasn't able to pay the fees, you cannot just take them out without giving them one terms notice, so even if you pull them out you still have to pay basically.

 

We also have other debt, am I right that I can rule all other debt off with being bankrupt too, as long as its old debt prior to the bankrupt proceedings even if they aren't the people who filed for bankruptcy?

 

But if we are going to be made bankrupt, which I am fine about I want to ensure that all other debts are wiped clean with all creditors also e.g. credit cards, loans etc.

 

:!: Also, as we live in rented accomodation, will they inform our landlord about the decission of being declared bankrupt? if so, how is this done e.g letter, phone, email etc?

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I really dont see what they hope to gain by making you bankrupt. By the sounds of things they are doing you a big favour as this will allow you to write off all your debts and start again with a clean slate.

 

I have contacted one of the Mods who is well versed in Bankruptcy to advise you further

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We also have other debt, am I right that I can rule all other debt off with being bankrupt too, as long as its old debt prior to the bankrupt proceedings even if they aren't the people who filed for bankruptcy?

 

But if we are going to be made bankrupt, which I am fine about I want to ensure that all other debts are wiped clean with all creditors also e.g. credit cards, loans etc.

 

Yes. With a few exceptions.

 

Student loans, some fines, CSA arrears, and a few other odd debts are not cleared.

 

But all normal unsecured loans, credit cards, etc will be cleared.

 

If you have a joint debt and it is just you going bankrupt then the debt will fall to the joint signatory.

 

:!: Also, as we live in rented accomodation, will they inform our landlord about the decission of being declared bankrupt? if so, how is this done e.g letter, phone, email etc?

 

The official receiver (OR) will normally write to a landlord. Many people have arrears after all if they are in financial problems.

 

If you can provide the OR with a copy of the tenancy and proof you are up to date then some will agree not to do that. But not always.

 

To be honest, the vast majority of landlords are just fine. :)

 

They care about getiing paid their rent. If you have no other debts, then that is more likely not less.

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You will need to submit an income and expenditure statement (budget sheet) to the court so the judge can see that you are able to afford to live, let alone pay any outstanding debts. Have you made any offer of payment to these fees?

 

The Budget shhet is here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=9136&d=1243157204

 

When being made Bankrupt the court will need to have details your income, outgoings, debts and assets. The court will decide whether to make a Bankruptcy Order. You will be interviewed by the Official Receiver. The Official Receiver is a civil servant who will deal with the creditors and decide what to do with assets such as vehicles and property, which in your case is rented accomodation. Do you have any arrears on the rent?

 

In Bankruptcy your assets are usually sold. Your creditors are then paid with the proceeds of the sale. If the creditors are not paid in full then any shortfall is written off. You will then have certain restrictions during and after the Bankruptcy proceedings. Remember that the courts would have to approve the petition just as they would if you petitioned for your own Bankruptcy.

 

A time order maybe a way of asking the court to give you more time to pay a loan agreement if you have fallen behind with the payments. It can change the amount you have to pay each month, how long the loan will last, and in some cases it is also possible to change the interest rate if any is charged.

 

You can only apply for a time order if your credit agreement is regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 you took the loan out after 1 May 1998 then the loan can be up to £25,000 and still be covered by the Consumer Credit Act.

 

The court should look at making an order for you to pay in instalments you can afford. Interest is normally frozen on court judgments for agreements under the Consumer Credit Act automatically.

 

It really depends on your circumstances. If your and your partners credit ratings are completely shot to bits by this and other financial institutions demanding money, then the bankruptcy may be the only option you have to start over.

WARNING TO ALL

Please be aware of acting on advice given by PM .Anyone can make mistakes and if advice is given on the main forum people can see it to correct it ,if given privately then no one can see it to correct it. Please also be aware of giving your personal details to strangers

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Hi

 

Thanks, no we are no behind on our rent at all, and completely up to date.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

However, if anyone knows what will happen tomorrow that would be a great help - as still unclear if we will be made bankrupt tomorrow or if its just a preliminary hearing to ascertain what assets we have etc?

 

I don't want my funds in my bank account being frozen by the bank, so if this is the case, I will be taking out all my money!

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Get enough money out of the bank to live on for a few weeks and if any of the accounts which could be included in the BR are with your current bank open a new bank account that's not assocciated with your debts.

 

Who is the original creditor and who is the company making you BR?

"To love unconditionally is the greatest gift, laughter is a close second" .To give your time to help others after being helped here is the best way to show your appreciation to your fellow CAG members.

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts. All my knowledge has been gained here, for which I'm very grateful. I'm a Journalist, not a law professional.

 

If you do PM, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private ;)

BB 13 - DCAs/banks and solicitors 0.

 

I get a fresh start to get on with learning to live with severe disabilities when they could have had something if they'd been understanding...

 

<--- If you feel I've helped, please twinkle my star :)

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its a school for debts owed. I do not have any debt with my actual bank I bank with, neither does my partner.

 

Although we have various credit cards and loans etc, non again through our bank - all unsecured.

 

Also what is the situation with council tax, do they wipe any debt owed on that?

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Council tax arrears cannot be included in a BR. All your other debts look like they can though if thats what you want ;)

"To love unconditionally is the greatest gift, laughter is a close second" .To give your time to help others after being helped here is the best way to show your appreciation to your fellow CAG members.

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts. All my knowledge has been gained here, for which I'm very grateful. I'm a Journalist, not a law professional.

 

If you do PM, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private ;)

BB 13 - DCAs/banks and solicitors 0.

 

I get a fresh start to get on with learning to live with severe disabilities when they could have had something if they'd been understanding...

 

<--- If you feel I've helped, please twinkle my star :)

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Council tax arrears cannot be included in a BR. All your other debts look like they can though if thats what you want ;)

 

Actually they can. Subject to a few conditions.

 

Unsecured Creditors

 

40.101 Council Tax

 

Each District Borough Council levies and collects a tax, called a council tax which is payable in respect of dwellings in its area. The occupiers of the dwellings have joint and several liability for council tax.

 

Council tax is charged on a yearly basis from 1 April each year [Note 3] but the liability to pay council tax is determined on a daily basis [Note 4]. The billing authority is required to make a demand for payment of the council tax separate to the notification of the amount of council tax and the tax becomes due when that demand is made but most council tax payers agree a statutory monthly payment scheme for payment of council tax [Note 5].

 

Any amount due and unpaid under the instalment agreement prior to the insolvency order is an unsecured debt in the proceedings [Note 6]. If the bankrupt's council tax is up to date under the instalment agreement at the date of the bankruptcy order, no amount is provable in the bankruptcy as it relates to future occupation of the dwelling. Where a liability order has been obtained by the council, prior to the bankruptcy order being made the whole debt as notified within the liability order becomes due and it is therefore a provable debt as defined in paragraph 40.12.

 

So basically, arrears from a previous year are written off.

 

If you are paying the current bill by instalments and you are in arrears, then the part of the bill due up until the bankruptcy date is written off.

[SIZE=2][COLOR=SeaGreen][FONT=Verdana][URL="http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/"][/URL][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE]

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Are the bank accounts joint?

 

Are you able to make payments to the debt over a period of time, or are you fully stretched with other commitments?

WARNING TO ALL

Please be aware of acting on advice given by PM .Anyone can make mistakes and if advice is given on the main forum people can see it to correct it ,if given privately then no one can see it to correct it. Please also be aware of giving your personal details to strangers

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no accounts not joint, but BR is for both us anyway as a joint debt as sons were at the school.

 

No this is not an option plus all the other debts we have an unable to pay as both lost jobs.

 

To be honest they are doing us a favour by doing this anyway, and was something we were toying with for a while to help get all debts cleared and start a fresh clean state.

 

I am not worried about what is happening, I just wanted really to know what to expect tomorrow when attending and what happens afterwards?

 

Will this BR last for 12 months to pay back some of the debt owed - although at the moment we have litterally £8 spare a month after bills, rent, food etc.

 

How are you finances managed whilst being BR?

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Are you and your OH on benefits?

"To love unconditionally is the greatest gift, laughter is a close second" .To give your time to help others after being helped here is the best way to show your appreciation to your fellow CAG members.

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts. All my knowledge has been gained here, for which I'm very grateful. I'm a Journalist, not a law professional.

 

If you do PM, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private ;)

BB 13 - DCAs/banks and solicitors 0.

 

I get a fresh start to get on with learning to live with severe disabilities when they could have had something if they'd been understanding...

 

<--- If you feel I've helped, please twinkle my star :)

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Will this BR last for 12 months to pay back some of the debt owed - although at the moment we have litterally £8 spare a month after bills, rent, food etc.

 

How are you finances managed whilst being BR?

 

12 months or maybe less. If your OR is not too busy and your case is fairly simple then you may be discharged before the 12 months.

 

If you are both unemployed with no income apart from benefits then you are not going to be asked to pay anything back.

 

But for the sake of argument, if you did find work then you may be asked to pay something back from any surplus income for up to 3 years. But that really is from surplus income, so not a big deal.

 

While BR you manage your finances. You simply have a legal duty to inform the OR of any increases in income within 21 days of them incurring.

 

It is a surprisingly "hands off" procedure, relying on a) trust and b) the fact that you have a legal duty to cooperate.

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Was the best thing I ever did 'cos was tressed it made me very ill and suicidal having debts. I got discharged within a year and got over £25,000 of alleged debt written off.

"To love unconditionally is the greatest gift, laughter is a close second" .To give your time to help others after being helped here is the best way to show your appreciation to your fellow CAG members.

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts. All my knowledge has been gained here, for which I'm very grateful. I'm a Journalist, not a law professional.

 

If you do PM, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private ;)

BB 13 - DCAs/banks and solicitors 0.

 

I get a fresh start to get on with learning to live with severe disabilities when they could have had something if they'd been understanding...

 

<--- If you feel I've helped, please twinkle my star :)

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You must state down all your expenditure on bills,clothes,food,travel costs etc...do the figures in such a way that you have a £1 per month leftover.

Ive never known a court to require receipts....especially not for the amount of food you buy ;)

You will not be on trial here, there is no guilty or not guilty involved - its all very informal & sorted out sitting round a table.

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I don't want my funds in my bank account being frozen by the bank, so if this is the case, I will be taking out all my money!

 

If you can..set up a basic bank account somewhere else & move all your money into there ;)

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If you can..set up a basic bank account somewhere else & move all your money into there ;)

 

Barclays Cash Card or Co-op Cashminder account if you can.

 

Most others are likely to be closed as soon as the bank finds out. :(

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Well that does look like your best option in the situation you are both in. Just remember to fill in the income expenditure sheet and print it off.

 

Let us know how you get on. . .

WARNING TO ALL

Please be aware of acting on advice given by PM .Anyone can make mistakes and if advice is given on the main forum people can see it to correct it ,if given privately then no one can see it to correct it. Please also be aware of giving your personal details to strangers

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