Newbie .

[roofovermyhead]

Hi,

 

I'm new to all this. I have taken advice from CCCS , opened a parachute account and I am about to send out the first letters to my creditors with £1.00 payments.

 

I am worried and I am wondering their responses might be, and how to deal with them.

 

What happens next? Do they start a deluge of telephone calls, debt collectors turning up? My wife is under a lot of stress looking after elderly, terminally ill parents ,is there any legal way to protect her from this possibilty.

 

We would welcome some support and guidence , I have no real idea about what awaits us or how I'm going to deal with it.

 

Thank you.

[clemma]

Normally they will just reply stating that they are looking for your agreement.

 

Once they have sent what they purport to be your agreement, you need to know if it's enforceable in court or not. The easiest way is to pop it on here (minus your details) for someone to look at. If it has not been executed properly, then you can put the account into dispute. This means they can not take enforcement action to make you pay (i.e defaults, court action). It can be a long slog to get them to back off, but it is worth it. Also, if the agreement is not enforceable, then the ball is in your court then - you have 3 options really - 1. Stop paying altogether 2. Offer a small full and final settlement 3. Offer monthly payments based on what YOU can afford.

 

If it is enforceable and all the prescribed terms are there (see HERE for an idea about what agreements have to contain) then I would suggest writing to them, explaining your situation, and offering token payments of £1 a month (or whatever you can afford).

 

If they start to harass you by telephone, send this letter off to them:

 

-HARASSMENT WARNING-

 

WARNING;PROTECTION FROM HARASSMENT ACT 1997;

 

WARNING; COMMUNICATIONS ACT 2003, S127.

 

TELEPHONE NUMBER

 

Re: Harassment by telephone

 

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: XXXXXXX

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I am writing in relation to the quantity and frequency of telephone calls that I have received from your company, which I deem to be personally harassing.

 

I have verbally requested that these stop, but I am still receiving calls.

 

I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only.

 

I am of the view that your continued harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

 

Be advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Also, and threats of doorstep collections are usually just that - threats. The DCA monkeys rarely turn up! If you are threatened with this, then send them the following letter:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Account Ref xxxx

 

Please be advised that I will only communicate with you in writing.

 

Should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you.

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so, then you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

 

Yours faithfully

 

If you can go in to a little more detail about what these debts are for, when you last made payments etc., etc., that would be helpful

[roofovermyhead]

Thanks Clemma.

 

I have two unsecured overdrafts , one unsecured loan, and a credit card debt. I ran these up when my wife's earnings fell to about half of what they normally should have been. We are both self employed.

 

We also have a house which I was doing up and without using some of this money it would have been unfit to live in. These we necessary things like new boiler/washing machine/ basic kitchen thta was rotting from leaking pipes etc.

 

I came to a point where I didn't want to keep borrowing any more money against the equity in my home and chasing ever increasing debt by borring more money is like an illness.

 

Without borrowing more to pay debt I can no longer pay my debts.

 

One mistake I made was to assume that things wouls pick up after Christmas. The Bank offered a three month resite on the mortgage, and I didn't understand about prioritising debt. Firms kept ringing and hassling and I kept up the monthly payments. I am now three monthsd in capped areas with a month owing on top of that. They have offered to split the arreas over nine months, and this is the point , with the help of CCCS counselling I have come to understand priority payments. I didn't know the law and I thought not paying debt was like a "crime". So I ran around like an idiot paying off what I could when I could.

 

I am sending mininmum payment letters out and intend to keep paying my £1.00 postal orders until the arrears are sorted out.

 

I am concerned that they may come after the equity in my home and try and force reposssession. I would like to point out I haven't led the highlife

My time an money has gone into trying to make a home fit for my family out of a wrecked house thta very few other people wanted. My clothes are second-hand excepting a few birthday gifts, and my car is worth about £200.00. The children got new clothes when we could afford them.

 

I would like to stay in my home and I want to devlop a sound strategy to enable me to do this.

 

Can you explain the importance of asking the loan companies for the agreement?

[clemma]

Firstly, overdrafts are not covered by CCA, so you would be better sending a SAR - this will give you everything the bank has, including all statements. This does cost £10 however. You could then begin the process of claiming back any unfair charges. Although this has been stayed in the courts at the moment, it would put these into dispute meaning they can not take any further action on them (although they may try).

 

For the unsecured loan and credit cards, you can CCA these. The credit agreement that they send must be a "true copy" of the original one you signed and MUST contain certain prescribed terms to make them enforceable in court (see HERE for an idea of what the prescribed terms are).

 

If they do not contain these, then the ball is in your court. This is when you would put the account into dispute (there are a few different letters to do this, depending on what they send you). You have 3 options open to you then - 1. Stop paying them altogether until they comply with your request. 2. Offer a small full and final in the hope they accept or 3. Make token payments from as little as £1 per month.

 

Once it is in dispute, they are not to take any action against you to enforce the debt, including, but not limited to, passing on to a DCA, applying for a CCJ etc.

 

As for your home - unless any of these are subject to a CCJ and you have not maintained payments, then you have no need to worry. In fact, even IF this happened, the creditor could apply for a charge on your property. Only if you failed to maintain payments then, could a creditor look to force a sale. However, this is not likely as you have children in the house. This is so far in the future, that I would not worry about it all.

 

You mention you are both self-employed - check carefully to see if you have any PPI on your loan/credit cards. If so, then this has been misold and you CAN claim this back. This is also another way of putting the accounts into dispute.

 

Last thing to note - any letters you send to creditors or DCA's always PRINT your name, do not sign. Try to use postal orders and always, always send recorded delivery. This way, you maintain a paper trail. NEVER phone any of these people either - they will tell you things on the phone that they would never dare to put in writing.

 

If I have missed anything, or you have any further questions, then fire away. You have come to the right place - even though it's difficult, try not to panic.

Edited July 7, 2009 by clemma
too many typos

[clemma]

Ooops - CCA and SAR letters:

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: Account no: xxxxxxxx

 

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77(6) will apply.

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

 

 

 

Yours etc

 

SAR letter:

 

Data Protection Act 1998

 

Subject Access Request

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx (or multiple numbers if more than one account)

 

Please supply me with all data that you hold on me. This includes in particular, but is not limited to, the following:-

 

1. The original signed, executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

3. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with ORIGINAL CREDITOR.

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

6. Details of any collection charges added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

8. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

9. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

10. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

Yours faithfully,

[roofovermyhead]

Thank you,

 

You probably don't realise how helpful this is!

 

So basically putting the account into dispute slows down the recovery process?

 

And you can put an account into dispute by

 

a ) sending a subject access request letter to creditors covered by CCA

 

b) Disputing bank charges . I have heard the FSA are still considering cases of financial hardship. I am fairly sure we fit into a hardship catagory.

 

Regarding PPI- I have actually been contacted by a previous creditor wh was hauled in front othe FSA. The company contacted me and have told me they are considering my case which should have some resolution by the end of the next month.

 

Would all the PPI money retrned to me have to go to paying off debt if it was returned?

 

Thanks again.

[clemma]

Thank you,

 

You probably don't realise how helpful this is!

 

So basically putting the account into dispute slows down the recovery process?

 

Yes - the debt still exists, but they are not able to use any action to make you pay - i.e. defaults, DCA's or threats of CCJ's (although they probably still will - we can cross that line when and if we get to it)

 

And you can put an account into dispute by

 

a ) sending a subject access request letter to creditors covered by CCA

 

It can be put into dispute if they fail to provide you with the requested information. They have 40 calendar days to respond to a S.A.R and 12+2 working days to respond to a CCA. It also depends on what they send as to what your dispute is.

 

b) Disputing bank charges . I have heard the FSA are still considering cases of financial hardship. I am fairly sure we fit into a hardship catagory.

 

This would also put the account into dispute. Good luck with that You might be interested in the link provided in this thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/208050-banks-giving-up-defending.html

 

Regarding PPI- I have actually been contacted by a previous creditor wh was hauled in front othe FSA. The company contacted me and have told me they are considering my case which should have some resolution by the end of the next month.

 

Would all the PPI money retrned to me have to go to paying off debt if it was returned?

 

In that case, these accounts should already be in a form of dispute, so they should not be chasing you for payment until the PPI is settled. Unless the PPI is in excess of the amount you owed, they would deduct it from the outstanding debt.

 

Thanks again.

 

No problem

[diddydicky]

Hi,

 

I'm new to all this. I have taken advice from CCCS , opened a parachute account and I am about to send out the first letters to my creditors with £1.00 payments.

 

I am worried and I am wondering their responses might be, and how to deal with them.

 

What happens next? Do they start a deluge of telephone calls, debt collectors turning up? My wife is under a lot of stress looking after elderly, terminally ill parents ,is there any legal way to protect her from this possibilty.

 

We would welcome some support and guidence , I have no real idea about what awaits us or how I'm going to deal with it.

 

Thank you.

 

What happens next? Do they start a deluge of telephone calls, debt collectors turning up? My wife is under a lot of stress looking after elderly, terminally ill parents ,is there any legal way to protect her from this possibilty.

 

yes if you can afford it get yourself a truecall (through this site around 90 quid) if you can afford it- it will filter out ALL unwanted calls for you otherwise if the calls get too much change your phone number

[roofovermyhead]

Firstly, Clemma, thank you for taking the time to offer support . I understand you are not too well at the moment , so I appreciate this.

 

I am going to send out the CCCS £1.00 token payment letters.

These are going recorded delivery.(ouch)

 

Then I am going to send out SAR's to banks with overdrafts/ CCA's to loans, along with with £10.00 postal orders for SAR's. 'nother ouch)

 

Not sure about these CCA's , please clarify: If I sending a token payment,

couldn't this be interpreted as recognising the debt? As I said this is all new to me.

 

Diddydicky , that sounds the thing. Telephone harassment is a pain, it doesn't produce anything positive ( they have only one goal ie to pressure payments) so it is better to get them to put everything in writing.

[roofovermyhead]

Also it has gone spookily quiet on the 'phone at the moment. No one has harassed for a few days yet.

[clemma]

I may not be well, but the old brain is still working!

 

Asking for a copy of your CCA is a perfectly legal request and one you can make at any time. Regardless of how much you have paid in the past, if they have no agreement, then it can not be enforced through court. The creditor can not ask for a dodgy agreement to be enforced just because you have made payments. Any payments made so far would be seen as a "gift" to the creditor. Don't worry about this

 

The only thing making payments does is re-start the limitation clock towards statute barring these accounts (which happens 6 years (5 years in Scotland) of non-payment/non-acknowledgement).

 

Basically, when you receive an "agreement" that does not show the prescribed terms, you can stop payments. If you think about it - how do you know you are making the correct payments/the correct interest rate etc., if they can not show you have signed up to these terms & conditions? Believe me, previous payments count for nothing when disputing what they send.

 

If they do come back enforceable, then carry on with your CCCS payment plan of token payments.

[clemma]

Also it has gone spookily quiet on the 'phone at the moment. No one has harassed for a few days yet.

 

Which is only a good thing

[roofovermyhead]

One last thing a soclicitors letter has dropped threough the door , yesterday

requesting payment or statement of my intent. Do I send them duplicate copies of the CCCS/ CCA letters , the ones I'm sending to the creditor they are acting on behalf of, Maybe there is a standard "response to solicitors letter" to send out as well ?

 

Thanks again.

[clemma]

If you are being chased by a "solicitor" for payment (which one by the way.....it will probably be a well known DCA to us CAGgers) then send the CCA request to them, not the creditor.

 

Remember the golden rule: CCA whoever is chasing you and always S.A.R the Original Creditor.

[roofovermyhead]

Clemma, one thing I'm begining to realise is this is like having a part time job on top of everything else and starting 'A' level law or something.

 

Send the CCA to the solicitor, what about the CCCS agreement?

[clemma]

Send the CCCS payment to the creditor still - it could have crossed in the post

[roofovermyhead]

Cheers for that.

 

Have you any experience of this?

 

The Homeowner Mortgage Support Scheme - HM Treasury

 

 

The scheme itself will be open for a window of two years, subject to review. The guarantee will last for a maximum time period and will expire once the customer is able to commence normal payments. If, during the period of guarantee, the customer defaults, the Government will pay the lender the equivalent sum of the total amount of the interest guaranteed that is not recoverable from equity in the property.

 

The Natwest offer only three months deferred, if you miss then after that they split what's owed over six/nine months.

[clemma]

Nope - I have heard of it, but have never really looked in to it to be honest.

[roofovermyhead]

I'll look into it an let everyone know. I've got to contact them at some point about this today.

 

Their standard offer is three months deferred. They grudgingly tell you

they are only making this "kind offer" because the government have told them to.

 

I am not sure if the provision was inteded to run for a max. of two years, if you look at the wording I think it means the scheme, which is voluntary,

runs for two years from its start date, not the amount of time given for homeowners to find new jobs/sort themselves out.

 

What I have found out is , if you agree to split arrears over a period of time they will offer you a max of nine months. I noticed a case where it seemed to have been decided that these split payments should have no time factor , ie theoretically they can be split over the remainder of the mortgage.

 

As I say, I'll look into it.

[car nut]

Cheers for that.

 

Have you any experience of this?

 

The Homeowner Mortgage Support Scheme - HM Treasury

 

 

The scheme itself will be open for a window of two years, subject to review. The guarantee will last for a maximum time period and will expire once the customer is able to commence normal payments. If, during the period of guarantee, the customer defaults, the Government will pay the lender the equivalent sum of the total amount of the interest guaranteed that is not recoverable from equity in the property.

 

The Natwest offer only three months deferred, if you miss then after that they split what's owed over six/nine months.

 

ive just been made reduntant and asked about this and it seams a bit of a con there are so many conditions that you have to comply with and so far the scheme has only helped TWO!!!! people

[roofovermyhead]

I got three months deferred, there was little or no work and we ate baked beans a lot, if it hadn't been deferred we'd have had less than no money. At the time I didn't know about CCCS or priority payments the 'phone kept ringing and I paid what we had to creditors. Daft way to live really.

 

I will try and find out a bit more.

[roofovermyhead]

Carnut, where did you apply to?

[car nut]

went to the benfits office they had all in the info

[diddydicky]

Firstly, Clemma, thank you for taking the time to offer support . I understand you are not too well at the moment , so I appreciate this.

 

I am going to send out the CCCS £1.00 token payment letters.

These are going recorded delivery.(ouch)

 

Then I am going to send out SAR's to banks with overdrafts/ CCA's to loans, along with with £10.00 postal orders for SAR's. 'nother ouch)

 

Not sure about these CCA's , please clarify: If I sending a token payment,

couldn't this be interpreted as recognising the debt? As I said this is all new to me.

 

Diddydicky , that sounds the thing. Telephone harassment is a pain, it doesn't produce anything positive ( they have only one goal ie to pressure payments) so it is better to get them to put everything in writing.

 

well if i tell you that mine has zapped over 830 unwanted calls from 8 debts since april it wil give you an idea of the scale of intrusion it prevents you can get it through this site at a reduced rate

[roofovermyhead]

Think I might be able to run to one of those. Does it need a cable to connect

to a telephone, how does it work?

 

This is the Homeowners Scheme. I think this is a voluntary arangement between banks and us. There is some suggestion that it should run for up to two years, but this is not the deal I was offered. Like I said this one only gives you three months, and then a final saftey line of splitting arears over a number of months, making the amounts due each month higher.

 

 

Lenders offering Homeowners Mortgage Support : Directgov - Home and community

 

 

 

 

There is another scheme in which a Housing Trust buys some of the equity in your property, or buys your house outright and rents it back to you. I think this is the one that had two uptakes, and looks like last resort

 

 

Mortgage Rescue scheme : Directgov - Home and community