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Hi

 

Firstly, I must salute you all on this forum I have been reading it for a few months now and boy! have you all worked so hard and still are I must add.

 

We have been having financial problems for a some months now due to ill health and have just found out I shall l not be returning to work due to ill health and this is going to have a major effect on us.

 

AFter reading lots and lots of the forums we CCA Bank of Scotland

for 2 x Credits Cards they were both taking out in 1996 at the exact same time.

 

We have received this application form from them, very poor copy 1 large copy on the front and 1 smaller copy on the back it seems to us they have been on Microfiche. However not quite sure if they are enforceable, ws hoping they are not to give a bit of breathing space and a little bit of leverage to come to some arrangement.

 

I shall scan up the copy, it is 1 copy but for 2 Credit Cards (1 x Visa & 1 x Mastercard) never seen and agreement/application like this before and wondered if anybody out had.

They also sent me a 8 page Agreement (which is an up to date agreement with £12 charges on it they were much higher when we took these CC out in 1966.

 

Would be very much oblidged if someone could look at these for us and try decipher (remembering they are not good copies, I have read on here sometimes they do this) also today in same post we received a demand notice from Blair Slobber & Scott for the whole amount stating they would be taking legal action if we dont comply, but we cant comply, you would think after all these years they would have had mega pounds from us they could be a bit more understanding.

 

 

Credit Card agreement/Application for BOS Mastercard & Visa

 

CCA Letter

 

Credit Card Agreement Page 1

Credit Card Agreement Page 2

Credit Card Agreement Page 3

Credit Card Agreement Page 4

Credit Card Agreement Page 5

Credit Card Agreement Page 6

Credit Card Agreement Page 7

Credit Card Agreement Page 8

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hya scotswalker

your first copy is an application form that presumably you submitted to them way back in 1996. it is not a copy of your original terms and conditions. subsequently they have failed to provide what you requested and therefore is to be considered unenforceable at this stage.

 

the other 8 pages of utter trype bears no help in providing you with a copy of your original agreement taken out in 1996, for the record it states that thes terms and conditions were available to you in october 2008. unless you had received these later dated agreements and signed them. they are worthless to purpose.

 

the letter from bos states that they have issued to you a notice of default if you have received this suggest that you post that up for scrutiny, one of our legal eagles would need that information.

 

 

this leaves you with a dilemma do you go it alone with good sound advice from the legal eagles on this forum or pay someone else to do it for you.

 

obviously the cheaper option is do it youselve. but this can be a little daunting for some of us.

 

suggest that you pick one of the postings that is very similiar to you own case and start to prepare for the fight ahead.

 

hope the above helps in some small way, and remember i have no legal experience only a desire to help when possible

 

if you need further clarification on any point keep posting

djc

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Hiya djc

 

Many thanks for your response, have you any idea where I would start or how much it would cost to get this done. You mention a default notice the only thing I have that looks like a DN is a letter which does not say DN but I shall post it up this was dated 6th June 2009 but was saying there was for 2 months payments they didnt receive, I did not receive this letter until 15th June 2009 however glad you pointed this out to me as they say account was ended on the 8th June 2009, DOnt know how I was meant to pay amount on the letter by then if I didnt receive until 15th June 2009

Not too sure about this it seems as I am going round in circles.

 

They send a letter dated 6th June 2009 elling me two payments not received, this I received on 15th June 2009.

 

However according to there letter they ended my account on 8th June 2009. Hmmm..... anybody any suggestions regarding this I am not too sure whats what just now.....

 

Copy of Letter/DN ?

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Hi Everyone

 

Is there any other CAG's out there that agree with djc (not that I am doubting his/her word) just was wondering what everybody else was thinking. Please anybody, feel free to respond with either negative or positive comments as this is the way of learning.

 

I have heard a lot of negative things about companies who take over these claims however if anybody can help guide me I would be ever so grateful.

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Hi Everyone

 

Is there any other CAG's out there that agree with djc (not that I am doubting his/her word) just was wondering what everybody else was thinking. Please anybody, feel free to respond with either negative or positive comments as this is the way of learning.

 

I have heard a lot of negative things about companies who take over these claims however if anybody can help guide me I would be ever so grateful.

 

Scotswalker,

 

djc is correct.

 

1. I assume that they sent you the Application form in response to your CCA request. This has no prescribed terms, therefore unenforcable in court. This does not mean that the debt goes away. There is much debate as to the validity of an application form as an executed agreement. Not sure if it has been tested yet.

 

2. Their letter stating that they have complied is complete garbage. They should send you a copy of the CCA incorporating prescribed terms within 4 corners. ( Front & Back ), signed statement of account, Historic Terms and conditions and current terms and conditions.

 

3. The later agreement, 8 pages, is just a current terms and conditions and until signed, which you won't do, is not a contract.

 

If the notice that they sent you dated 6th June is all that you have, please let us know and we can supply a response. Are you sure that there was no DN issued?

 

This is typical HBOS incompetence.

 

You can do this yourself with support from members. If it gets too daunting for you, then you could employ someone to carry on. You must be preparred for an avalanche of letters and threats though. They keep bowling googlies, but easily hit through the covers for four though. They will probabbly dig their heels in, so it will be a longish fight. This is not something that will go away with a few letters. Choice is yours realy.

 

Vint

Edited by vint1954

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Scotswalker,

 

When did you make the CCA request.

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Hi Vint

 

Many thanks for your replies they are very much appricated.

Sent for CCA on 18/6/09 to BoS, to my knowledge there is no DN I thought thats what the letter dated 6th June was.

On this Application in the box where is says Bank od Scotland Visa & Bank of Scottland Mastercard is does state there that I accept and agree to be bound by the condions overleaf (Nothing about Terms) do you think they maybe holding on to the back of this Application Form for their own use, or are the bound by consumer law to let me have it.

This CC was applied for in 1996. This Applicatioon form has definately been copied from microfiche am I correct in saying microfiche does not stand in court (they need original) as you will have maybe gathered I would be bound by Scottish Law is there a difference if so should I have posted this in the Scottish Debt section of the forum instead of BoS.

SW

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Hi Vint

 

Many thanks for your replies they are very much appricated.

Sent for CCA on 18/6/09 to BoS, to my knowledge there is no DN I thought thats what the letter dated 6th June was.

On this Application in the box where is says Bank od Scotland Visa & Bank of Scottland Mastercard is does state there that I accept and agree to be bound by the condions overleaf (Nothing about Terms) do you think they maybe holding on to the back of this Application Form for their own use, or are the bound by consumer law to let me have it.

This CC was applied for in 1996. This Applicatioon form has definately been copied from microfiche am I correct in saying microfiche does not stand in court (they need original) as you will have maybe gathered I would be bound by Scottish Law is there a difference if so should I have posted this in the Scottish Debt section of the forum instead of BoS.

SW

 

hi Scotswalker,

 

There are some diferences in Scotish Law, But I think that the 1974 CCA is the same.

 

If there were terms overleaf, they should have sent them. They will need the origonal document in court, if it goes that far.

 

Edit and send the letter below.

 

Vint.

 

xxxx 2009.

Dear Ms Gartshore,

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

No debt is acknowledged to your company.

Further to my request under the above act, your attention is drawn to the fact that this account is now subject to a serious dispute. On xxxxxxx, by recorded delivery, I requested that you supply me a copy of the executed credit agreement covering this account pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 78, a copy of this request is enclosed, allowing you 12 days + 2 to comply. To date you have failed to comply with my request, instead sending me a copy of an application form, which as I am sure that you are aware, contains none of the prescribed terms required by the Act.

Without production of the alleged agreement I am unable to assess if I am indeed liable for any alleged debt to you, nor does it give me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’ as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

For the avoidance of any doubt I have included section 78(1) and 78(6) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which states…

 

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing ( 12 working days + 2 ) to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

(a) the state of the account, and

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

 

Clearly as no legitimate agreement has been supplied on request, you have not complied with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and I now draw your attention to section 78 subsection 6 which states If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

 

Clearly this is a situation as described in S.78(6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the debt is unenforceable at this time. In addition, I draw your attention to section 127 (3) Consumer Credit Act 1974 which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the consumer credit act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

To clarify S.61(1) states

 

(1)A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

 

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

© The document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible

 

In addition the prescribed terms referred to in section 60 CCA1974 are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following—

 

1.Number of repayments;

2.Amount of repayments;

3.Frequency and timing of repayments;

4.Dates of repayments;

5.The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable

 

Therefore based upon the Consumer Credit Act 1974 this alleged debt as it stands is unenforceable and should this proceed to litigation, a court is precluded from making an enforcement order under section 127(3) unless a true copy of the signed agreement is produced..

 

At the point where this account entered into the default situation as described in s78 (6) CCA 1974 no other charges are allowed to be added until such time as you become compliant with my request. As you are still not in compliance with my request I insist that the following takes place with immediate effect.

 

All entries which refer to missed payments be removed from my credit file

All collection activities cease with immediate effect until you comply with my request from 27/03/09 or such time as a court makes an enforcement order.

In addition, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on Debt Collection

 

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

 

What I Require.

 

I require that you send me a true signed copy of the executed agreement as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you are unable to supply the requested documentation because no such agreement is in existence I require written clarification as such.

 

I require that you comply with my request within 7 days of the date of this letter. I will not correspond any further with you until I either receive a copy of the requested documents as laid down in section 78(1) CCA 74 or clarification that such agreement doesn’t exist. I am advised that should you persist in pursuing this debt ignoring the above information you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well

 

No other correspondence will be accepted

 

Should you attempt litigation it will be vigorously defended and the failure to supply documentation under the CCA 1974 is a complete defence to any legal action and your actions will be vexatious and unlawful.

In addition, you have stated that Bank Of Scotland, have issued me with a Default Notice. I must advise you that I have received no such document and request that you provide me with this important Notice without delay.

 

I trust this out lines the situation

Yours sincerely

Print name

  • Haha 1

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hi Scotswalker,

 

There are some diferences in Scotish Law, But I think that the 1974 CCA is the same.

 

If there were terms overleaf, they should have sent them. They will need the origonal document in court, if it goes that far.

 

Edit and send the letter below.

 

Vint.

 

xxxx 2009.

 

Dear Ms Gartshore,

 

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

No debt is acknowledged to your company.

 

Further to my request under the above act, your attention is drawn to the fact that this account is now subject to a serious dispute. On xxxxxxx, by recorded delivery, I requested that you supply me a copy of the executed credit agreement covering this account pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 78, a copy of this request is enclosed, allowing you 12 days + 2 to comply. To date you have failed to comply with my request, instead sending me a copy of an application form, which as I am sure that you are aware, contains none of the prescribed terms required by the Act.

 

Without production of the alleged agreement I am unable to assess if I am indeed liable for any alleged debt to you, nor does it give me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’ as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

For the avoidance of any doubt I have included section 78(1) and 78(6) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which states…

 

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing ( 12 working days + 2 ) to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

(a) the state of the account, and

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

 

Clearly as no legitimate agreement has been supplied on request, you have not complied with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and I now draw your attention to section 78 subsection 6 which states If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

 

Clearly this is a situation as described in S.78(6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the debt is unenforceable at this time. In addition, I draw your attention to section 127 (3) Consumer Credit Act 1974 which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the consumer credit act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

To clarify S.61(1) states

 

(1)A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

 

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

© The document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible

 

In addition the prescribed terms referred to in section 60 CCA1974 are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following—

 

1.Number of repayments;

2.Amount of repayments;

3.Frequency and timing of repayments;

4.Dates of repayments;

5.The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable

 

Therefore based upon the Consumer Credit Act 1974 this alleged debt as it stands is unenforceable and should this proceed to litigation, a court is precluded from making an enforcement order under section 127(3) unless a true copy of the signed agreement is produced..

 

 

At the point where this account entered into the default situation as described in s78 (6) CCA 1974 no other charges are allowed to be added until such time as you become compliant with my request. As you are still not in compliance with my request I insist that the following takes place with immediate effect.

 

All entries which refer to missed payments be removed from my credit file

All collection activities cease with immediate effect until you comply with my request from 27/03/09 or such time as a court makes an enforcement order.

In addition, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on Debt Collection

 

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

 

What I Require.

 

I require that you send me a true signed copy of the executed agreement as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you are unable to supply the requested documentation because no such agreement is in existence I require written clarification as such.

 

I require that you comply with my request within 7 days of the date of this letter. I will not correspond any further with you until I either receive a copy of the requested documents as laid down in section 78(1) CCA 74 or clarification that such agreement doesn’t exist. I am advised that should you persist in pursuing this debt ignoring the above information you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well

 

No other correspondence will be accepted

 

Should you attempt litigation it will be vigorously defended and the failure to supply documentation under the CCA 1974 is a complete defence to any legal action and your actions will be vexatious and unlawful.

 

In addition, you have stated that Bank Of Scotland, have issued me with a Default Notice. I must advise you that I have received no such document and request that you provide me with this important Notice without delay.

 

I trust this out lines the situation

 

Yours sincerely

 

Print name

 

Hi Vint.

 

EXCELLENT LETTER....would you recommend sending this to them right away.

 

This letter will be sent to BoS with regard to my Visa CC.

 

However, My other CC Master card which was taken out at the same time as this one which is on this application also. (Never heqard of two cards being on the same application it must have been something they did in the earlier years). We never received a default notice for this account either. Apex purchased the MAstercard Debt from the bank of scotland and I wrote to Apex on 27th May 2009 still no sign of a CCA so I sent a Default Letter that my wife got of this forum on the 19th June 09 still not had any word from them, however obvisiously this is what they are going to send me if BoS give it to them...any idea what to do in this situation should I sit and wait or send them another letter.

 

And I see that you also stated that they need original to go to court I thought I read this somewhere on here but can't find now.

 

When I first came onto this forum (which my wife found) I was a bit apprehensive and embarressed but I may add you have all made me feel welcome and that is a hugh bonus to me. I dont think people (me) realise that there is other people with the same or even more serious financial problems until I started to read this forum.

 

Whoever is responsible for starting this forum up needs to be applauded and giving some kind of recognition as they have helped so many people like myself who was in the frame of mind that there was nothing we could do and that due to my diability that I suffer from now I would not be able to pay off my debts, at least I can see a speck of light at the end of the tunnel thanks to people like yourself and djc can't thank you enough for your help..however I dont want to become a burden to you all.

SW

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Hi Scotswalker,

 

The letter is just put together from others who had done the hard work for me.

 

I would send the letter for both accounts.

 

If Apex have purchased your debt, send them this letter also. Yo may also want to stress to Apex, that they have purchased a dud, owing to rubbish agreement and that maybe they should return it to BOS.

 

It was common in the 80's and 90's to have 2 cards on the same application. Not sure on the legalities of having 2 account numbers on one agreement.

 

There is no need to be embarrased. Most of us found our way here having tried to deal with the CC companies, following Redundancy, Illness or other financial problems. When the CC companies refuse to help, which most do refuse, you are left with no alternative but to fignt back or sink.

 

If you read through the various parts and threads on the forum, you will soon get an understanding of where to head.

 

The site team are great and very knowledgable. There are many people on here that will pop in and help.

 

If you search the threads on BOS and Halifax, you will soon see that others have had similar experiences.

 

Depending on the replies that you get from BOS, will dicate the next steps.

 

Vint

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Hi

 

Firstly, I must salute you all on this forum I have been reading it for a few months now and boy! have you all worked so hard and still are I must add.

 

We have been having financial problems for a some months now due to ill health and have just found out I shall l not be returning to work due to ill health and this is going to have a major effect on us.

 

AFter reading lots and lots of the forums we CCA Bank of Scotland

for 2 x Credits Cards they were both taking out in 1996 at the exact same time.

 

We have received this application form from them, very poor copy 1 large copy on the front and 1 smaller copy on the back it seems to us they have been on Microfiche. However not quite sure if they are enforceable, ws hoping they are not to give a bit of breathing space and a little bit of leverage to come to some arrangement.

 

I shall scan up the copy, it is 1 copy but for 2 Credit Cards (1 x Visa & 1 x Mastercard) never seen and agreement/application like this before and wondered if anybody out had.

They also sent me a 8 page Agreement (which is an up to date agreement with £12 charges on it they were much higher when we took these CC out in 1966.

 

Would be very much oblidged if someone could look at these for us and try decipher (remembering they are not good copies, I have read on here sometimes they do this) also today in same post we received a demand notice from Blair Slobber & Scott for the whole amount stating they would be taking legal action if we dont comply, but we cant comply, you would think after all these years they would have had mega pounds from us they could be a bit more understanding.

 

 

Credit Card agreement/Application for BOS Mastercard & Visa

 

CCA Letter

 

Credit Card Agreement Page 1

Credit Card Agreement Page 2

Credit Card Agreement Page 3

Credit Card Agreement Page 4

Credit Card Agreement Page 5

Credit Card Agreement Page 6

Credit Card Agreement Page 7

Credit Card Agreement Page 8

 

Hi there,

I believe that we are all receiving the same template rubish. I have exactly the same things. There will be so many letters to guide you through the process. I would recomend to spend a few good hours in viewing Lexis 200 thread. OIt is the one that helped me a lot as well as template letter from this forum. Have a look and keep posting on the forum as very profesional people will look and advise.

What I have done so far I have been on this forum for a while and I have spent a lot of time gathering the info I need. I do not know much but for sure I have gained enough probably to give them a hard time and not paying them anything...:lol:...my favourite part as they have lied, cheat and steal enough....

Anyhoo..there are a few others very good and I have to mention 2 of them which I have folowed here and there ...marendoov52 (i think) and 42man.

Good luck and keep in touch

DD:cool:

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Hi there,

I believe that we are all receiving the same template rubish. I have exactly the same things. There will be so many letters to guide you through the process. I would recomend to spend a few good hours in viewing Lexis 200 thread. OIt is the one that helped me a lot as well as template letter from this forum. Have a look and keep posting on the forum as very profesional people will look and advise.

What I have done so far I have been on this forum for a while and I have spent a lot of time gathering the info I need. I do not know much but for sure I have gained enough probably to give them a hard time and not paying them anything...:lol:...my favourite part as they have lied, cheat and steal enough....

Anyhoo..there are a few others very good and I have to mention 2 of them which I have folowed here and there ...marendoov52 (i think) and 42man.

Good luck and keep in touch

DD:cool:

 

Yes, this is the same waste paper that we all get. It is up to date terms and conditions, made out to look like a contract. Not even a hint of the contract that they allege you have signed. You need to reject this as a true copy of any agreement in writing. Last peice of paper in the file and so on.

 

They keep using a flawed copy of this document. You will see that you ony need to pay 1% per month. This won't even cover interest.

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They keep using a flawed copy of this document. You will see that you ony need to pay 1% per month. This won't even cover interest.

 

Hi vint1954

 

It must be costing them a fortune between paper, ink, stationery and postage also manpower (if you can call it that) as I know how much it cost me (No doubt all other cags know) howevr they seem to think (or hope) that people are going to get fed up and just bow down and pay...how wrong are they.

 

Can I ask where did you see "You will see that you only need to pay 1% per month" am I missing something.

 

This site has been a godsend for me and no doubt a lot of other people who has been at their wits end before finding it. Whoever started this site up is a genious and a life saver to a lot of people I do know from my own experience I was getting to the stage were I was thinking :(there is no way out of this trap I am in too deep.

But hopefully now we can ss a bit of light at the end of the tunnel:) I do know we have a long haul to go but knowing there is help out there and other people all in the same boat (some I may add worse than others) so as long as we all stick together and help each other hopefully we can out do these money grabbers.

Ta Ta

SW

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Hi

 

Firstly, I must salute you all on this forum I have been reading it for a few months now and boy! have you all worked so hard and still are I must add.

 

We have been having financial problems for a some months now due to ill health and have just found out I shall l not be returning to work due to ill health and this is going to have a major effect on us.

 

AFter reading lots and lots of the forums we CCA Bank of Scotland

for 2 x Credits Cards they were both taking out in 1996 at the exact same time.

 

We have received this application form from them, very poor copy 1 large copy on the front and 1 smaller copy on the back it seems to us they have been on Microfiche. However not quite sure if they are enforceable, ws hoping they are not to give a bit of breathing space and a little bit of leverage to come to some arrangement.

 

I shall scan up the copy, it is 1 copy but for 2 Credit Cards (1 x Visa & 1 x Mastercard) never seen and agreement/application like this before and wondered if anybody out had.

They also sent me a 8 page Agreement (which is an up to date agreement with £12 charges on it they were much higher when we took these CC out in 1966.

 

Would be very much oblidged if someone could look at these for us and try decipher (remembering they are not good copies, I have read on here sometimes they do this) also today in same post we received a demand notice from Blair Slobber & Scott for the whole amount stating they would be taking legal action if we dont comply, but we cant comply, you would think after all these years they would have had mega pounds from us they could be a bit more understanding.

 

 

Credit Card agreement/Application for BOS Mastercard & Visa

 

CCA Letter

 

Credit Card Agreement Page 1

Credit Card Agreement Page 2

Credit Card Agreement Page 3

Credit Card Agreement Page 4

Credit Card Agreement Page 5

Credit Card Agreement Page 6

Credit Card Agreement Page 7

Credit Card Agreement Page 8

 

Hi there again,

I have looked again at your aplication form. Apart that it is the rubish we all have, I have looked on the top of it, under the Aplication form, and it says .." a friend for life"....It is rather strange that they have used these words ...as a friend you would not rob me for so many years to start with but will help me. Not to mention that a friend would not take any interest out of you ....:cool:

Just to add that they have to send you the T&C from the time of opening this account ...

Just a thought ...

DD:grin:

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Hi vint1954

 

It must be costing them a fortune between paper, ink, stationery and postage also manpower (if you can call it that) as I know how much it cost me (No doubt all other cags know) howevr they seem to think (or hope) that people are going to get fed up and just bow down and pay...how wrong are they.

 

Can I ask where did you see "You will see that you only need to pay 1% per month" am I missing something.

 

This site has been a godsend for me and no doubt a lot of other people who has been at their wits end before finding it. Whoever started this site up is a genious and a life saver to a lot of people I do know from my own experience I was getting to the stage were I was thinking :(there is no way out of this trap I am in too deep.

But hopefully now we can ss a bit of light at the end of the tunnel:) I do know we have a long haul to go but knowing there is help out there and other people all in the same boat (some I may add worse than others) so as long as we all stick together and help each other hopefully we can out do these money grabbers.

Ta Ta

SW

 

Hi scotswalker,

 

Yes, it must cost them a fortune indeed. I suppose that they work on the principal that most give in after DCA's input etc.

 

The forum has been a godsend for a lot of people. I only came here when the CCC's refused to accept reduced payments when I was made redundant. Their collection tactics were ferocious, so you have nothing to do but fight back. Silly thing is, if the CCC's had helped people in the first place, most would go on paying, blissfully unaware of the Law.

The ref to 1% interest was in the new so called agreement, page 1 paragraph 2.2a.

It will be a long hall, but there is plenty of support on here from experienced members and the site team.

Vint

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Hi

 

After receiving CCa's for the 2 BoS Credit Cards and receiving a joint application form for them both I set about claiming charges/Fees:

 

27/5/09 - Sent letter applying for fees and charges. (For 2 Credit Cards)

 

08/6/09 - Received letter acknowledging claim.

 

10/6/09 - Received letter with lower charges offer.(For 2 Credit Cards)

 

09/7/09 - Sent 'Response to Settlement Offer' refusing their offer and reiterating that full charges balance to paid in full within 10 days.(For Both Credit Cards)

 

27/7/09 - To date no response from BoS Credit Card regarding refunding charges.

 

As they have not replied within the 10days I gave them.

Can anybody help me with the next step I have tried to find next letter on the forum that I would send but I am getting mixed up and confused can someone point me in the right direction.

 

Forgot to say I did receive a Prevent further Action letter fdated 21/7/09 (received 24/7/09)from Blair Oli & Scott saying pay in full by 4/8/09 or Agree and acceptable payment proposal OR Local Collection Agent may call at our home OR Legal Action maybe taken against me

 

Have already sent Account in dispute to them and BoS on 9/7/09

SW

Edited by Zaraphin

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Hi

 

After receiving CCa's for the 2 BoS Credit Cards and receiving a joint application form for them both I set about claiming charges/Fees:

 

27/5/09 - Sent letter applying for fees and charges. (For 2 Credit Cards)

 

08/6/09 - Received letter acknowledging claim.

 

10/6/09 - Received letter with lower charges offer.(For 2 Credit Cards)

 

09/7/09 - Sent 'Response to Settlement Offer' refusing their offer and reiterating that full charges balance to paid in full within 10 days.(For Both Credit Cards)

 

27/7/09 - To date no response from BoS Credit Card regarding refunding charges.

 

As they have not replied within the 10days I gave them.

Can anybody help me with the next step I have tried to find next letter on the forum that I would send but I am getting mixed up and confused can someone point me in the right direction.

 

Forgot to say I did receive a Prevent further Action letter fdated 21/7/09 (received 24/7/09)from Blair Oli & Scott saying pay in full by 4/8/09 or Agree and acceptable payment proposal OR Local Collection Agent may call at our home OR Legal Action maybe taken against me

 

Have already sent Account in dispute to them and BoS on 9/7/09

SW

Reply back to Blair Oliver and Scott, that account is in dispute, enclosing copy of dispute letter sent to halifax. They are only a couple of desks away.

 

Regards the 10 days and no reply, you just need to send a further letter, reminding them of thier failure to respond within the time frame.

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Hi everyone

 

Thought you might like an update now Christmas and New Years over.

 

RECEIVED FULL REFUND OF CREDIT CARD CHARGES AFTER FOS INTERVENED HOWEVER THEY PAID THEM TOWARDS MY ARREARS (WHICH IS FAIR ENOUGH) BIT OF A FIGHT WITH CHARGES BUT WON IN THE END.

 

Have had a few letters from APex who have purchased one of the Credit Card Debts from BoS.

 

To Update you:

 

Received a Application Form from APex in connection with a BoS Mastercard CC debt on this application form there is two cards 1 for BoS Mastercard and 1 forBoS Visa. (Which were taken out at same time)(See post #1 above)

With this we received a copy of current terms and conditions. No historic terms and conditions are available.

 

When we requested the Visa CCA from BoS they sent us the same application form but we received another different set of current terms and condition from BoS dated 08.(Obvisiously M/C and VISa had different Terms and Conditions.

 

The Application Form is a copy of a microfiche and does state condition overleaf but there is no overleaf conditions enclosed.

 

THe scenario now is Apex owns one of these debts for BoS Mastercard and the other I have just received a letter from Iqor wanting payment.

 

I challenge Apex with a letter stating that this could not be enforced but they are not very happy about this an have sent me a letter today I shall post copy up for you all to read.

 

Copy of Letter

 

Must admit getting a wee bit scared now as they seem to think they can collect on this debt. (We are struggling so much financially due to illness)

 

Any advice,help would be greatly appreciated. Does anybody think that the application form posted in post No. 1 above is enforceable.

 

I know we have asked this question om here before but we are getting to the stage that they are convincing us that it is. (which I am sure they are hoping to)

 

scott

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Can anybody help with above post......Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeee.

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Hi Scotswalker :)

Hold fast - you've been advised correctly as far as I can see, and to add my opinion to the above, the application form IS unenforceable, as it does not bear the prescribed terms, PLUS the mocked up terms and conditions they sent are provably NOT the historic T&C's required in response to a CCA as they refer to an Act in 1999 which, unless they are in possession of a Tardis, could not possibly have been included with an agreement taken out in 1996.

Their protestations are intended, as you suspect, to cast doubt in your mind and make you pay up without going to Court, as going to Court is exactly what they don't want to do, with those shambolic documents.

Additionally, they state that a Default Notice was issued and the agreement ended on 8th June 2009. It is really important that you hunt through your papers and try and find this Default Notice, which will probably have arrived around early April. (The pic you enclosed is just a statement of arrears). BOS are CRAP at DNs, and a faulty one can be a useful tool. It will be headed IMPORTANT YOU SHOULD READ THIS CAREFULLY then "Default Notice Served under Section 87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. It should have an Office of Fair Trading advice leaflet with it. The dates and wording of the DN are crucial. If you find it, keep the envelope too. Remove personal details in cluding bar codes and post for us to check for you.

 

At the end of the day, it's your decision, but I personally think you're in a strong position on this, and they know it ;)

 

Keep you chin up!

Elsa x

 

PS it might be better for this thread to be in the busier, more proactive debt collection forum now, shout if you want it moving.

  • Haha 1

PLEASE NOTE... I AM MOST SORRY BUT I HAVE VERY LIMITED AVAILABILITY AT THE MOMENT DUE TO EXTREME PRESSURE OF WORK - IF YOU REQUIRE URGENT HELP ON YOUR THREAD AND ARE GETTING NO RESPONSE PLEASE HIT THE TRIANGLE FOR SITE TEAM ASSISTANCE. ELSA XXX

 

Please check out my BLOG for the quick guide to debt threats - it has all the info & letter template links you need to get started on your journey of TAKING CONTROL. :roll:

 

All opinions are my own based on research. I am not legally qualified, if in doubt please consult a legal expert.

Hope this has helped or made you smile. Keep your chin up, you're among friends now! Elsa xxx

Please click the *star* of any CAG member who has helped you .

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Morning Elsa

 

Many Many thank for your advice, it is greatly appreciated. You know what I shall be doing today.....hunting through mounds of paperwork to try and find a default notice, have looked before but another hunt wont go amiss. Its terrible how they Debt Collectors can put the fear of death into you then somebody like yourself comes along and all of a sudden you make us feel a lot better.

 

Your are all worth your weight in gold on this forum I dont know where things would have been now if it wasn't for this forum.

 

As soom as I find anything ...if I do I shall post it up I am sure the only thing I did find was the notice that I thought was a DN that I posted earlier.

 

Your have a nice day..you deserve it

Scott

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Scot-we've all been through it, know just how you're feeling. CAG has made such a difference to so many people. The debt collectors rely on people feeling afraid, shamed and isolated. Who likes admitting to friends and relatives that they're in debt?

On here you have a vast resource of people who have dealt with the same problems at different stages from starting out to coming through it, so you'll benefit from the help and comradeship as you go along - then hopefully help others as you learn.

 

Good luck with the DN hunt - I'm a squirrel so thankfully kept all my documents, but had to spend a day with the house covered in papers to find them :)

Elsa x

  • Haha 1

PLEASE NOTE... I AM MOST SORRY BUT I HAVE VERY LIMITED AVAILABILITY AT THE MOMENT DUE TO EXTREME PRESSURE OF WORK - IF YOU REQUIRE URGENT HELP ON YOUR THREAD AND ARE GETTING NO RESPONSE PLEASE HIT THE TRIANGLE FOR SITE TEAM ASSISTANCE. ELSA XXX

 

Please check out my BLOG for the quick guide to debt threats - it has all the info & letter template links you need to get started on your journey of TAKING CONTROL. :roll:

 

All opinions are my own based on research. I am not legally qualified, if in doubt please consult a legal expert.

Hope this has helped or made you smile. Keep your chin up, you're among friends now! Elsa xxx

Please click the *star* of any CAG member who has helped you .

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Hi Elsa

 

Can't find any sign of a DN from BoS, hunted high and low (well wife has I am not in too good health to be able to do it hence the reason we are in this state now).

 

House was like a paper mill can't believe we have acumulated so much papaerwork, scarey ain't it when you put it all out in front of you.

 

Now that I am certain I don't have a DN for this account does that mean that I don't have a leg too stand on now, typical thats just our luck.... I was hoping that if we had a good case it might allow us to negotiate a final sum on this account, unless they were going to ask for too much. Not sure what to do, do you think it is better to go down the route unenforceable CCA - no payments or try for a final settlement your comments would be highly appreciated.

 

You mention that it might be better to move this to another forum, can you advise me how to do this.

 

Enjoy the rest of your evening

Scott

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hiya Scott

 

came across your thread today, and just wanted to say well done in getting so far,

 

maybe if others agree now perhaps may be the time to request a subject access request ie pay the 10.00 fee and send to bos and they have to provide all the information they hold on you and your accounts - the dn may very well pop up in the bundle of info they should send you, unless i missed anything did you ever get a termination letter that you can find in your bundle of paperwork?

 

anyway i understand your fears as i was exactly the same about 18 months ago and with cag and the many friends here ive learnt so much that its given me the confidence to even write to my local mp about what im experiencing and that for me with past illness is a huge achievement in itself, the more you learn the more you will become empowered

 

im in the kitchen again today with all my paperwork and putting everything in a file for each creditor and im finally getting organised.:D

 

From now on, just keep all envelopes attached to each letter received and on the back of the envelope and letter i write the date i have receieved it too

 

my original letters of threats taking me to court ie about 12 to 18 months ago, are very much worded the same as what ive had today - perhaps bigger and bolder words but "may" or "could" being the operative words

 

of course if you do get any court papers get on here quick and we can help with any defence pronto pls do not feel embarrased in any way

 

hope my ramblings have been helpful in a kind of mad way but i just wanted to assure you from my own experience

 

have a fun weekend laters angel x

  • Haha 1

Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.:)

 

my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"

 

This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel :D

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Hi Scott,

If it was me I'd carry on disputing the account and pointing out that the agreement they produced would not stand up in Court and sit tight.

The DN would have been just another string to your bow but it's not crucial.;)

Elsa x

 

PS I've asked for it to be moved to the Debt Collection forum for you x

Edited by Undercover-Elsa

PLEASE NOTE... I AM MOST SORRY BUT I HAVE VERY LIMITED AVAILABILITY AT THE MOMENT DUE TO EXTREME PRESSURE OF WORK - IF YOU REQUIRE URGENT HELP ON YOUR THREAD AND ARE GETTING NO RESPONSE PLEASE HIT THE TRIANGLE FOR SITE TEAM ASSISTANCE. ELSA XXX

 

Please check out my BLOG for the quick guide to debt threats - it has all the info & letter template links you need to get started on your journey of TAKING CONTROL. :roll:

 

All opinions are my own based on research. I am not legally qualified, if in doubt please consult a legal expert.

Hope this has helped or made you smile. Keep your chin up, you're among friends now! Elsa xxx

Please click the *star* of any CAG member who has helped you .

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