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    • One other point to note, the more I read, the more I study, the more proficient I feel I am becoming in this area. Make no mistake DBCL if you are reading this, when I win in court, if I have the grounds to make any claims against you, such as breach of GDPR, I shall be doing so.
    • Yep, I read that and thought about trying to find out what the consideration and grace period is at Riverside but not sure I can. I know they say "You must tell us the specific consideration/grace period at a site if our compliance team or our agents ask what it is"  but I doubt they would disclose it to the public, maybe I should have asked in my CPR 31.14 letter? Yes, I think I can get rid of 5 minutes. I am also going to include a point about BPA CoP: 13.2 The reference to a consideration period in 13.1 shall not apply where a parking event takes place. I think that is Deception .... They giveth with one hand and taketh away with the other!
    • Six months of conflict have also taken a heavy economic toll.View the full article
    • the Town and Country [advertisments ] Regulations 2007 are not easy to understand. Most Council planing officials don't so it's good that you found one who knows. Although he may not have been right if the rogues have not been "controlling" in the car park for that long. The time only starts when the ANPR signs go up, not how long the area has been used as a car park.   Sadly I have checked Highview out and they have been there since at least 2014 . I have looked at the BPA Code of Practice version 8 which covers 2023 and that states Re Consideration and Grace Periods 13.3 Where a parking location is one where a limited period of parking is permitted, or where drivers contract to park for a defined period and pay for that service in advance (Pay & Display), this would be considered as a parking event and a Grace Period of at least 10 minutes must be added to the end of a parking event before you issue a PCN. It then goes on to explain a bit more further down 13.5 You must tell us the specific consideration/grace period at a site if our compliance team or our agents ask what it is. 13.6 Neither a consideration period or a grace period are periods of free parking and there is no requirement for you to offer an additional allowance on top of a consideration or grace period. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________So you have  now only overstayed 5 minutes maximum since BPA quote a minimum of 10 minutes. And it may be that the Riverside does have a longer period perhaps because of the size of the car park? So it becomes even more incumbent on you to remember where the extra 5 minutes could be.  Were you travelling as a family with children or a disabled person where getting them in and out of the car would take longer. Was there difficulty finding a space, or having to queue to get out of the car park . Or anything else that could account for another 5 minutes  without having to claim the difference between the ANPR times and the actual times.
    • Regarding a driver, that HAS paid for parking but input an incorrect Vehicle Registration Number.   This is an easy mistake to make, especially if a driver has access to more than one vehicle. First of all, upon receiving an NTK/PCN it is important to check that the Notice fully complies with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 before deciding how to respond of course. The general advice is NOT to appeal to the Private Parking Company as, for example, you may identify yourself as driver and in certain circumstances that could harm your defence at a later stage. However, after following a recent thread on this subject, I have come to the conclusion that, in the case of inputting an incorrect Vehicle Registration Number, which is covered by “de minimis” it may actually HARM your defence at a later stage if you have not appealed to the PPC at the first appeal stage and explained that you DID pay for parking and CAN provide proof of parking, it was just that an incorrect VRN was input in error. Now, we all know that the BPA Code of Practice are guidelines from one bunch of charlatans for another bunch of charlatans to follow, but my thoughts are that there could be problems in court if a judge decides that a motorist has not followed these guidelines and has not made an appeal at the first appeal stage, therefore attempting to resolve the situation before it reaches court. From BPA Code of Practice: Section 17:  Keying Errors B) Major Keying Errors Examples of a major keying error could include: • Motorist entered their spouse’s car registration • Motorist entered something completely unrelated to their registration • Motorist made multiple keying errors (beyond one character being entered incorrectly) • Motorist has only entered a small part of their VRM, for example the first three digits In these instances we would expect that such errors are dealt with appropriately at the first appeal stage, especially if it can be proven that the motorist has paid for the parking event or that the motorist attempted to enter their VRM or were a legitimate user of the car park (eg a hospital patient or a patron of a restaurant). It is appreciated that in issuing a PCN in these instances, the operator will have incurred charges including but not limited to the DVLA fee and other processing costs therefore we believe that it is reasonable to seek to recover some of these costs by making a modest charge to the motorist of no more than £20 for a 14-day period from when the keying error was identified before reverting to the charge amount at the point of appeal. Now, we know that the "modest charge" is unenforceable in law, however, it would be up to the individual if they wanted to pay and make the problem go away or in fact if they wanted to contest the issue in court. If the motorist DOES appeal to the PPC explaining the error and the PPC rejects the appeal and the appeal fails, the motorist can use that in his favour at court.   Defence: "I entered the wrong VRN by mistake Judge, I explained this and I also submitted proof of payment for the relevant parking period in my appeal but the PPC wouldn't accept that"   If the motorist DOES NOT appeal to the PPC in the first instance the judge may well use that as a reason to dismiss the case in the claimant's favour because they may decide that they had the opportunity to resolve the matter at a much earlier stage in the proceedings. It is my humble opinion that a motorist, having paid and having proof of payment but entering the wrong VRN, should make an appeal at the first appeal stage in order to prevent problems at a later stage. In this instance, I think there is nothing to be gained by concealing the identity of the driver, especially if at a later stage, perhaps in court, it is said: “I (the driver) entered the wrong VRN.” Whether you agree or not, it is up to the individual to decide …. but worth thinking about. Any feedback, especially if you can prove to the contrary, gratefully received.
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Boxclever vs Toffee


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the point is there claim is wrong from the start, they are talking about a SALE of an item you had a "hire only agreement"

 

their claim should have been for rental/hire fee's etc NOT the price of the item, count how many payments you made before it broke down, at worst your agument was you stopped paying as they did not repair/replace the faulty item

 

you also have their faulse claim of supplying a new machine,

 

at worst depending what you put in the defence, you need to go for amended defence on the grounds you did not understand the claim, in that their POC was confusing to you,

..

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Thanks HAS, I haven't heard of that. If it's without the cost it can only be good! And I can use this despite the fact my AoS says I've admitted part of the claim? Good if so.

 

Been looking around for lifespans and official data on this machine, but it's so old there doesn't appear to be much, if any. Found several people who've mentioned it on review sites who've said it's terrible, permanently breaking down. New machines appear to be expected to last from upwards of 9 years. Some sites are saying 10-14 and even more. But this wasn't brand new. I may write to the Hotpoint site and see what they say.

 

Gawd! :confused:

 

ETA Cheers Kiptower. I'll see if that's possible. I'll put everything I can on to my draft defence so that it'll make it easier come the time to just c&p bits as needed. When it gets nearer and the court specialists have a look, we can decide which is the best route to go. It's great to know that I have at least a couple of options - a couple more than I thought I had yesterday!

 

But you're right. I should have hung fire and waited before I did the AoS. I had another week so I wish I hadn't been so hasty now. Heigh ho!

Edited by Toffeewoman
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as far as the sale of goods act goes the max expected life , where you can claim back would be about 6 years,

 

first point is they are wrong in the case they have presented in the POC ,

 

you were renting/leasing the item it would never be yours, you were not / did not buy it

 

their claim implies you bought and failed to pay

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The Sale of Goods (Implied Terms) Act would apply here as it is HP (or is it - not sure as you are not actually purchasing the goods). Anyway, like kip has said, the normal time is 6 years for large electrical items. You have a reconditioned (not mentioned) machine, which would probably be expected to last at least 3-4 years.

 

The fact it is not mentioned on your agreement that it is, in effect, 2nd hand, the POC's are totally wrong and the amount you have already paid should go to your advantage. Also, you have a broken machine which they refuse to pick up, they are trying to charge you for leaving the agreement (by my reckoning, based on your agreement, you could do so, without penalty, after the minimum term of 18 months) and as Kip has stated, they are implying you have purchased the goods.

 

Throw into the mix the mis-sold insurance, which will far outweigh what they are trying to claim on the POC - then I can't see you having much of a problem with your defence.

 

Try explaining to the court that you submitted your acknowledgment before seeking advice. Tell them you were confused/scared - whatever - but let them know that after having sought advice, you now wish to dispute the whole amount......

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kiptower:

 

Yes they are - unless as I said, they've taken into account the fact they've billed me for the price of the whole machine, on top of those few months? And are now saying I bought it because they've charged it to me? That's why a) I need to find the letter, and b) I need a breakdown of how that charge is made up in the PoC. They had no intention of sending me a replacement - they were charging me a big price for the broke one I have. I think I wasn't clear or you misunderstood my previous post about that.

 

I can see a lot of sorting and rummaging going on in the next few days...! Urrrgh! Has to be done, though.

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They cannot suddenly change the agreement from Hire Agreement to Hire Purchase......you were never, ever going to own the machine no matter how much you apid towards it. These are worse than Brighthouse (and I never thought I would find a company worse than them)!!!

 

EDIT - Yeah, just like kip said :)

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Clemma - I'll give it a go with the court. I'm wondering if I fill out the hard copy paper and send that in, saying disputing all of it, with a cover letter explaining my IT incompetence/fear etc would they accept it?

 

I'm going to try it. Will send registered on Monday now. So enough time for someone to tell me not to if it's a bad idea!

 

Thanks again everyone - it's really touching to feel the tremendous support here. xx

 

Edit - yes Hire Agreement only, then they put that price on after I missed those few months payment. They're putting the boot in and punishing me for not paying. What better now than a default and CCJ for 6 years. Such schitz.

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You can only try TW - the most the court can do is reject it. I would wait for someone more clued up to appear on here though.

 

I am doubtful that they will obtain a CCJ against you based on the POC's and your HIRE AGREEMENT - not purchase ;)

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Cheers, pink ears! (Fab avatar!)

 

Will do that. I think they were being spiteful when they added that on, in view of how much I've already paid. It's not like I broke the 18 month minimum hire period or anything... They seem to act like it's their own personal stuff you're stealing from them or something.

 

Screaming at Murray now so taking a break. Thanks again. Hope you get home soon!

 

Yet another edit: Just thinking that the Sale of Goods Act limitation thing could be why they've put a later start date of 2004?? They could be trying to sneak round it. A thought for later.

Edited by Toffeewoman
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Am missing the match - have no idea what's happening (I know I could check the web.....but hey, that takes time). Will be leaving for home in next 30 mins :D

 

Keep us all informed :)

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It's close. 2-1 sets to Roddick, 5-5 in the 4th, Murray serving 40 - 15 at the mo. Tense one.

 

6-5 Murray in the 4th now. Roddick to serve and they're having a little sit down!

Edited by Toffeewoman
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Better luck next year, hey.

 

Hope Federer anihilates Roddick in 3 sets and sends him crying back over the Atlantic. Not that I'm bitter or anything...

 

On Topic:

 

Had a look at Court Fees in case it's decided the best route is Counterclaiming. Looks like I'm entitled to full remission due to receiving JSA. So that doesn't seem to be an issue. Sorry I'm being a bit of an edit freak - I need to write stuff down as I come across it or I'll probably forget!

Edited by Toffeewoman
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Where are you in terms of the data held about you with this company?

 

As part of the proceedural rules the enemy will have to disclose to you all the material they intend to use in court to support their claim. Clemma.... is a SAR appropriate to get one step ahead of them?

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There is no need to do a SAR because Bryan Carter has started court proceedings - sending the CPR 31.14 request should provide all the information needed. BC hates these requests, so hopefully he will crawl back under his stone.

 

A S.A.R request can take 40 calendar days, which is too long. Time is of the essence, so the CPR must be submitted ASAP - they have to reply in time for the OP to submit a defence ;)

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Toffee should get the following:

 

1 the agreement. (You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.)

 

2 the assignment*

 

3 the default notice*

 

4 the termination notice*

 

Plus any other documents that BC are relying on in court. A S.A.R will probably only add payment history and perhaps transcripts of phone calls. Unless these are going to be useful to the case, then it's not worth spending the £10. Also, it's highly unlikely the documents from the S.A.R would be received in time......

 

The case so far looks good anyway.

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Hey again! I need to send off a CPR 31.14? This is the letter you pasted up on the previous page Clemma?

 

I'll have every letter they ever sent me somewhere here, I just need to go through stacks of stuff to find them. Also, most of them weren't read when they were supposed to have been. The only thing I won't have is any taped conversations/transcripts. I haven't spoken or replied to BCarter at all. They may have a few calls from boxclever last year though. But it's just as well because then I have stuff to check against in case they're trying to pull a fast one. It will be interesting to see a copy of my Agreement to compare... I found the notification of litigation proceedings, dated/postmarked the same day as the Claim issue date papers (25th June).

 

I need to get it prepared and go to my friend's to print it off. I can get this done by Monday afternoon and sent. Registered? Or should I post it here first so it can be checked I haven't screwed it up and then print & send? Probably better if I do that actually.

 

Also, I went back on the MCoL site and logged on. It has my AoS filled out for extra time so I can only print or save that, but the other stuff like part claim/dispute claim/counterclaim still have the 'start' buttons, and I can still access them. I'll ring the court on Monday and check this out.

 

Kerr-pOw! Fingers crossed..!

 

Sleep well, peeps and tyvm. I'll look in tomorrow when I've got the letter ready to post up.

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Yep - the CPR 31.14 is the letter I posted up. Send it recorded delivery (maybe special delivery if you can afford it) then BC cannot deny receiving your request.

 

Keeping my fingers crossed for you here as well - hope it all goes well, and I will check back when you post again :D

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Thanks people. Yes, K, I read about that! I won't be signing anything!

 

Some good news. I got in touch with the Court, and they said when I send in the defence it will override the AoS where I ticked the part liable bit. I can send in a defence without any of it. So as you have advised, I'm going to defend all of it (mainly because his wording is all wrong on Particulars) and counterclaim for the mis-sold insurance.

 

I haven't sent off the CPR 31.14 yet as my friend wasn't home so I couldn't print it off. I've arranged to go tomorrow though, and will send it recorded/registered then. I'll post up when I've done it. :)

 

You guys are good - it must have a lot to do with the current financial state the world's in, but I've noticed there are so many new posts and people in difficulty every day, and you manage to get round to everyone. Big ups to you all!

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