hfc/restons V sleepingdog

[sleepingdog]

Hi belaflat , All the questions I have relate to many ongoing cases some of which are 5 years since last payment and 3 years since court papers issued then nothing ,so like you all are genuine cases. I am unable to name some of the companies concerned as they often trawl this site and I do not wish to alert them of any future plans of attack if you know what I mean, lol.

sleepingdog

[Ganymede]

Hi Ganymede , I can find within limitations act that it can not be used once a judgement obtained but could you help me by showing where in act it includes issue of court papers as opposed to judgement, By issueing court papers does not mean that a debt exists also by putting in a defence does not always mean that you aknowledge the debt so it seems wrong that creditors are using issue of court papers within 6 years of last payment to extend length of time they may carry on actions especially when not following through with court process giving the defendant an opertunity to actually defend the case.

If you are correct in your advise then I guess that I will have to go for strike outs. Would I be right in thinking that if I got a strike out that the creditor could not again take me to court and would the 6 year rule start back from last payment or restart from court paper issue date or even strike out date.

Sorry for all the questions but as I origonally stated many of my creditors have issued court papers then have gone quite once defence submitted .

sleepingdog

 

 

SB barred is only a defence to a claim, so obviously it cannot be raised by the Defendant post judgment.

 

Read part 1 of the act, specifically section 5 that says an action must be brought within 6 years of the cause of action.

 

Therefore, once a claim is issue the clock stops in terms of SB.

[Belaflat]

Sleepingdog, Ganymede.

 

I also dont like to name names because of the lurkers but I also feel aggrieved at companies who issue court papers 3, 4, 5 years after the default then do not carry on when defended.

Roll on another 4 or 5 years then the case is still stayed but would have been statute barred a good while ago otherwise.

 

I feel that it is a possible ploy to wait until we are back on our feet perhaps then come gunning for us again.

I hear a lot of comments from people that the DJ's will not look favourably on reopening such cases after such a length of time but then I am also reading more and more instances where DJ's are granting such requests, in truth the system seems to be swinging back heavily in favour of the debt purchasers.

 

If after 6 years, a debt is still stayed then why should it be allowed to be reopened, in fact once a case has been stayed a year or so I feel it should be an automatic strike out, you often hear of criminal cases that have been dragged on so long they are dismissed for that reason, (as in the trial process having been delayed and adjourned repeatedly)

 

If a creditor allows say 4 years to pass, then another 5 before applying for a stay to be lifted, why should they be allowed to take action when the last cause for action occured 9 0r 10 years previously.

I would be attempted to apply for a strike out but would be afraid of opening a barrel of worms, let alone a can in the current situation.

Most unfair but then fairness counts for nothing in the debt purchase game.

[DonkeyB]

There is case law that states you cannot issue a claim simply to thwart a debt becoming SB. If no evidence is proffered, a good defence is that the claim was issued on such a basis, without the claimant having any intention of following through with the claim.

 

Will try and dig out the case law. It’s an abuse of process.

[sleepingdog]

Thank you Ganymede,Belaflat and DonkeyB , all your posts are helping me decide the next course of action to take on my stayed cases .I will of course post up the actions and call for help when needed. I shall start on the most annoying case first and go for a strike out.

Sleepingdog

[Belaflat]

Thanks DonkeyB, that could prove useful.

I would imagine after a good few years has passed such an argument could be used even if there was evidence, why wait for so long even if such evidence is there.

Its a form of mental torture.

 

In my case my last payments or acknowledgements to any debt was way back in 2003 so theoretically all should be statute barred.

According to Ganymede, I have the sword of Damacles hanging over me for as long as a DCA wants to keep me under pressure.

Not good, I should be looking to move forward now, not forever watching the mail and wondering when the dreaded letter may arrive.

 

I will say though that this particular DCA offered me a 90% reduction if paid by a certain date, sadly, even if I wanted to I dont have the funds to settle and get it off my back for good.

[sleepingdog]

Hi Belaflat , I to wish to get back on with my life and if that means forcing my creditors to either drop the cases or see me in court then so be it ,after all they are the ones that have tried to intimidate me for years and with the help of this site I have been awoken and now will be going for the Kill lol.

sleepingdog

[Belaflat]

Hi Sleepingdog.

 

I would love to force the issue but at the minute, if I do and it backfires and I lose, I would probably never get back on my feet again as the amount outstanding would cripple me.

I would still be paying it back after retirement so its not the best idea to go rattling the cage of a sleeping snake.

If DonkeyB can find that case Law, I could well be tempted to try for a strikeout on the grounds of the length of the stay and age of the debt.

[sleepingdog]

Hi Belaflat, one of my debts will take me until I am in my 90s to pay off ,if only the creditor had just let me pay off at the arranged amount and increased when I could afford it they would have been paid now, instead they chose to take court action and get CCJ against me which stipulates the small amount I pay per month lol. Greed does not always pay.

sleepingdog

[DonkeyB]

Here you go.

 

In Nomura International Plc v Granada Group Limited and others [2007] EWHC 642 (Comm) Mr Justice Cooke struck out the claim as an abuse of process. It is an abuse of process for the claimant to issue a claim form in an attempt to prevent the limitation period from expiring when it is unable to properly formulate a claim against the defendant. There is no other remedy other than strike out in such circumstances.

 

This case is an example of where the court will exercise its discretion to strike out a claim as an abuse of process under CPR 3.4(2)(b).

[DonkeyB]

A bit more of a summary – so what are the particulars of claim? This will be the test, whether they are fully particularised or whether they are vague or misleading.

 

 

The judge held that the key question in determining if a Claim Form constitutes an abuse of process must always be whether, at the time of issue, the claimant was in a position properly to identify the essence of the tort or breach of contract and, if given appropriate time, to formulate particulars of claim.

 

Pre-issue investigation must, at the very least, put a claimant in a position to:

 

Give details of the relevant contract and alleged breach where the claim arose out of breach of contract; and

Give the date and place of the occurrence and the nature of the tort alleged where the claim arose out of a tort.

 

The absence of a present intention to pursue proceedings is not in itself sufficient to amount to an abuse of process. By contrast, the absence of a known valid basis for claims will amount to an abuse, even if the claimant intended to pursue litigation.

[sleepingdog]

Thank you DonkeyB for that info ,from what you have detailed none of my outstanding claims could use that route, but as stated before I will just have to force the issue by going for strike outs and accept that in some cases I will force the creditor to actually see me in court. That in itself is not always a bad thing as I may then carry on with life at least knowing the outcome of those unresolved cases.

sleepingdog

[Belaflat]

Its so far back I cant find the original paperwork I was sent but I would imagine that route is not open to me either.

I guess i will just have to carry on watching over my shoulder and wondering.

Not a good position to be in after all these years.

[Belaflat]

Any update to this sleepingdog ?

 

I am currently experiencing a fairly frenzied campaign of calls and letters (both phones ex directory and new numbers but they got them somehow)

I am wondering how much more of this I can take.

[sleepingdog]

Hi Belaflat,

sorry for such a long time since I last posted.

 

Not much of an update I,m afraid I have had other matters to deal with .

 

All of the stayed actions have not changed as the creditors do not have enough info to go ahead with claims,

 

I have not yet begun to try and strike out the claims.

 

One of the CCJs have given me hassle a few times to try and increase the payments and I suspect that this will keep happening .

 

Another debt was sold to a debt buyer who have started proceedings , just waiting to see how this pans out.

 

Overall debt does not control my life as it did in the beginning mostly thanks to the support from site team and posters on this site.

Sleepingdog

[I've got no money]

.

 

All of the stayed actions have not changed as the creditors do not have enough info to go ahead with claims,

 

I have not yet begun to try and strike out the claims.

 

 

Sleepingdog

 

Bring back O17r11 I say...the old automatic strike out provisions

 

Could you post a copy of one of the Orders staying one of the cases...if you take out anything that might identify you - so redact your name, case number etc

[dx100uk]

set your default scan page size to A4 less than 300DPI [150 will do]

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

'

BUT......

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc. barcodes etc using paint program

but leave all monetary figures and dates.

*********************************************************

{DO NOT USE A BIRO OR PEN OR USE SEE THRU TAPE OR LABELS]

try www.pdfescape.com TO BLANK STUFF,

*************************************************************

or

DO IT IN MSPAINT.EXE or any photo editing program

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites ...

http://freejpgtopdf.com/

..

if you have multiple scans/pics

put them in a word doc FIRST and convert that to PDF

or use www.pdfmerge.com

 

convert existing PC files to PDF [office has an installable print to PDF option]

..

 

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

try and logically name your file so people know what it is.

though dont use full bank names or CAG in the title

i'e Default notice dd-mm-yyyy TSB

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

.

dx

[Belaflat]

Bring back O17r11 I say...the old automatic strike out provisions

 

Could you post a copy of one of the Orders staying one of the cases...if you take out anything that might identify you - so redact your name, case number etc

 

In my case, I all I got was a letter saying that my defence had been received and if no response by a set date, the case would be stayed.

This was 6 years ago for me now and I can't find the original letter any more.

The issue of papers now exceeds 6 years and apart from letters offering repayment options, no mention has been made of any Court action.

My last 'offer' from them was last year around September time, I have heard nothing else since.

[I've got no money]

In my case, I all I got was a letter saying that my defence had been received and if no response by a set date, the case would be stayed.

This was 6 years ago for me now and I can't find the original letter any more.

The issue of papers now exceeds 6 years and apart from letters offering repayment options, no mention has been made of any Court action.

My last 'offer' from them was last year around September time, I have heard nothing else since.

To be honest I can't see a Judge restoring a case in that situation - you could apply to strike it out but is it worth it - to all intents and purposes its gone away and of course the longer that the claimant leaves it then the harder it is to restore it...

[sleepingdog]

Thanks for all the latest info,

will have to dig out all the paperwork and scan up requested items.

 

I can remember the letters saying that my defence had been received and if no response by a set date, the case would be stayed.

 

I also remembering phoning the courts many months later and being told that the cases were stayed ,

can't remember if I got any letters from the court saying that the cases were stayed though.

Sleepingdog

[caro]

Have you checked how things look with the CRA's sleepingdog?

[citizenB]

Hi Belaflat,

sorry for such a long time since I last posted.

 

Not much of an update I,m afraid I have had other matters to deal with .

 

All of the stayed actions have not changed as the creditors do not have enough info to go ahead with claims,

 

I have not yet begun to try and strike out the claims.

 

One of the CCJs have given me hassle a few times to try and increase the payments and I suspect that this will keep happening .

 

Another debt was sold to a debt buyer who have started proceedings , just waiting to see how this pans out.

 

Overall debt does not control my life as it did in the beginning mostly thanks to the support from site team and posters on this site.

Sleepingdog

 

Unless there is a clause in the judgment that permits them to ask for yearly reviews, they would have to make application to the court for this.

 

I would simply respond by saying your circumstances have not changed and that you will continue to maintain the payments as per the Judgment dated XYZ.

[sleepingdog]

Hi all, I noticed that on my CRA report that it states correctly the date I was defaulted by HFC which is near to 6 years so I expected it to soon be removed, yet the statues of the account shows Gone away and a start date of only 2 years ago . Does this mean that this account can remain on my file for 6 years from this newer date .

On researching my correspondence the Gone Away date matches the month that Muck Hall sent me a letter chasing the debt. I never responded to this letter as HFC issued court papers over 2 years before this letter from muck hall so all their threats of further action was pretty limp.

[user2001]

no - at 6 years + 1 day from default, the account will vanish from the CRAs

[sleepingdog]

Thanks user2001