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brighteyes24

Should we go bankrupt? - Vague Court Claim

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Hi

 

After a real run of bad luck both healthwise and workwise, my husband and I are considering bankruptcy. We owe approx. £15k each to credit cards and catalogues and for the past 4 months have paid nothing towards any of them as my husband was made redundant owed £3k which he has no hope of getting. We've been living on my incapacity benefit and JSA for him of £60 a week. We have come to an arrangement with the mortgage company who have been accepting reduced payments but have told us we have until 31 August to pay the arrears of £2,800 or else. It is due to revert back to a variable rate loan from September which will reduce our payments right down and we'll be able to easily manage it then. If we have to go into rented accommodation, the rent will be significantly more than the mortgage which doesn't make alot of sense.

 

We've had enough. My husband is on anti-depressants and is suffering terrible panic attacks. He's applied for nearly 300 jobs with no success. They've told us his JSA will end in September and I don't quite know what will happen then.

 

The only thing stopping us from doing it before has been losing the house as we had some equity in it but I've gone on the Nationwide site today and according to their house price calculator, our mortgage is now the same as the value of the house.

 

But I don't know how it works. If we can somehow get the money to pay off the arrears and continue paying the mortgage at the new rate will they let us stay in the house or will they make us sell it?

 

I'm trying to get my husband to go to the CAB tomorrow but he doesn't think it's worth it so any assurances I can give him would be great.

 

Thanks in advance

 

B

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Hi brighteyes, credit card debt is unsecured debt, so your home is not at risk there, as for the mortgage, it is in the mortgage lenders interest and yours to come to an arrangement for re-payment, take all this one step at a time and keep posting here as you will get help and advice here :).

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Thanks for that. My OH is worried that if we are in arrears, albeit only by a couple of thousand, then they'll not help us. Also, he's worried that if he gets the chance of a job and he's bankrupt it'll affect his chances.

 

Is that likely?

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depends on the type of job and company.

 

i think it's a good idea fgoing to cab especially about the mortgage. it may also help making an appointment with your mortgage company. they will not want the hassell of trying to sell in ahouse in a poor market in the moment so it will be in their best interests to try and help, maybe extending your payments at then end of the mortgage or adding a little each month for a few years. you would be suprised at what they might offer to help.

 

re cc's and catelogues.

 

cut them up and don't order anything else.

 

these are unsecured debts and are your last priority but what is suggest is to send all the cc's and cat a cca request. this entitles you to check the paperwork is in order before making offers of payment.

 

 

you need to send each this:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

Re:- Account No: XXXXXXXX/Your Reference Number: XXXXXXX

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77 will apply.

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

You should also note that I will only discuss this matter in writing and should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you or any of your associates.

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so, then you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully

 

print your name do not sign it

 

 

include a £1 po and send each recorded.

 

 

i wouldnlt worry at this stage too much about them but would strongly advise you to speak to your mortgage company face to face. just ensure they are aware that you are looking at the unemployment being temp and with the rate changing and going to be cheaper it will be easily mamagable for you and ask them if you can extend payments or arrange from sep tp increase the payment each month for a few years to pay of the arrears.

 

 

I would not consider BK at this stageas its a very black hole to fall in and from what you have written i do not see the need for you to go down that route

 

ida x


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Brighteyes,

 

You need specialist advice in your current situation.

 

The CAB are good however the waiting times to see them at present are massive because they are inundated but try to get in there.

 

You need somebody to access your financial situation and see if you have anything you can offer the creditors.

 

It would be a real shame for you to go bancrupt as you would lose your property and i'm sure this is something you don't want to do.

 

The current climate will improve and when you find work you can look to make an improved soloution to your creditors in the mean time set your self up on a debt management plan.

 

Call a debt management company and see if you can get an advisor to come to your house and meet with you.

 

They charge a fee if you use them, your alternative is the CCCS who are a charity, they are free but funded by the creditors however if you have very little disposable income they can be useful and may well be your best bet in this situation call them ASAP.

 

Your mortgage company is going to make threats but make sure you are paying them something and keep communicating with them - they are your top priority. They can not force you to sell it.

 

Good luck.

Edited by Ossie26

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Hi

 

I am very sorry to hear about your current situation. With the Job Centre saying that your husband's JSA will stop later this year, what they usually do is do a review of the circumstances at that time i.e evidence of your husband actively seeking work etc. However, if they do stop the JSA, there should be other benefits you can then claim for such as working tax credit or income support. I would suggest that your husband seeks medical attention from a doctor or some help from the Samiratans who may be able to relieve him of his panic attacks.

Bankruptcy is an option available to you, usually all assets need to be sold, but with regards to your property, you can usually negotiate with the official receiver in bankruptcy and appeal to keep your property. Bankruptcy is on your credit file for 6 years, and it is issued in the local newspaper, however it is a quick option which would only usually take 12 months before your debt is cleared in full. If you do become bankrupt, you would need to pay an upfront fee of £510, but you can claim some of this back if you are on benefits. If your husband does manage to gain employment whilst bankrupt, or after, it would depend on the employment he goes into as to whether it would be affected.

Take a look into the following link which explains in more detail how your property would be dealt with in bankruptcy.

 

UK Advice: Consumer Bankruptcy - Property Role In Bankruptcy

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Went to the CAB on Friday and they have referred us to their Specialist Debt Counsellor. They were so helpful, I felt instantly better.

 

But when we got home this was on the doormat. We had a business that folded in 2004 and we owed HSBC for a bank loan and an overdraft. They sold it to a dca who sold it to another dca and it ended up with Robinson Way. I cca'd them and they sent through a very bad photocopy with OHs signature on but it had no attached t&cs or anything like that. Also, we were never notified by HSBC that they had sold the debt. As it was almost 6 years ago, I think this is a last ditch attempt to get us to pay up.

 

Anyway, could someone take a look and let me know if this is a genuine court summons or just another one of their scare tactics. We'll give it to the CAB on Friday but any help would be appreciated.

 

rwaycourtpaperscopy.jpg[/url]

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I have sent a message for site team to have a look.

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how long ago is almost,

 

anyway you can check when the last payment was made?

 

ida x


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April 2004 is when the default was placed on OHs credit file. We were making nominal payments up until, I think, 2007. We stopped because the amounts kept changing (up and down) and they couldn't tell us why. Also, they sent us a cca which was a really bad photocopy and didn't have any t&cs with it and HSBC didn't send us an assignment letter. When we spoke to HSBC, they said they could find no rcord of the debt :confused:. We told RW that until they could send us the information we had asked for we would pay no more towards it. They just kept saying that they had given us all the information we needed to prove the debt. In the end, we just stopped paying them. I know we perhaps shouldn't have done but I was really ill at the time and we really had had enough of them. They were calling us everyday and in the end we changed our phone number. We haven't heard from them for months.

 

thanks for looking

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Hi there,

 

From the dates you have stated, it was almost close to being statute barred.

 

Unfortunately, the N1 looks to be the genuine article and will need to be dealt with.

 

Do the Acknowledgment of Service, defending all, do not contend jurisdiction and do not submit a defence.

 

I would suggest getting a Consumer Credit Agreement request off to Robinson Way immediately. This will cost you £1.00,

Template letter here - http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/581-cca-request-letter

 

Amend to suit, do NOT sign the request,use a £1.00 postal order and send by Recorded Delivery.

 

I would also suggest sending a Data Subject Access Request to HSBC as well. This will cost a fee of £10.00. Template letter here - http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/576-subject-access-request-debt-a-dca

 

Again, amend to suit, do NOT sign, enclose £10.00 postal order and send by Recorded Delivery.


 

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Any advice & opinions given by supasnooper are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability.

Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Thanks Supasnooper

 

That is what I thought. They've decided to give it one last shot. If I send an SAR to HSBC, should I state that on the form and will that delay it? I'm just worried that if HSBC drag their feet, we'll be in even more hot water than we are already.

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I'd say that this is a VERY vague set of Particulars Of Claim...it says nothing about any assignment....and you have NEVER had an agreement with Robinson Way..... - Read this - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/160703-urgent-help-needed-robinson.html#post1721582

 

1 The Particulars of Claim neglect to disclose a cause of action.

 

2 If the Claimant claims payment of outstanding monies due from the Defendant under a contract made between the Claimant and the Defendant, the Defendant denies the formation of such a contract.

 

3 The Claimant's claim to be entitled to £XXXXX for debt, to statutory interest or to any monetary or other relief of any kind is denied.

I BELIEVE THAT THE CONTENTS OF THIS DEFENCE ARE TRUE.

 

Signed:

 

Dated:

 

 

I think you should send out a Civil Procedure Rule Request to Robinson Way (or their solicitors)

 

EDIT and send this recorded....

 

In the XXXX County Court

Claimant -v- (YOUR NAME)

Claim Number: (CLAIM NUMBER)

 

 

Dear XXX

 

CPR 18 - REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

 

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation. In order to file a defence and counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

 

The information must be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

 

 

1.1 If copies of any of the above documents are to be relied on in court rather than originals, a copy of the Notice of proposal to adduce hearsay evidence required under s2(1) of the Civil Evidence Act 1995 together with proof of the authenticity of the document(s) as required under s8(1)(b) of the Act, including but not limited to:

 

(a) a copy of the procedure(s) used for copying, storing and retrieving documents

(b) a copy of the relevant log entry showing the time and date of the scan or copy, the name of the member of staff making the copy, the method used for copying, storage and retrieval and time and date of destruction of the original document(s)

© copies of internal and external audit reports covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedures have been complied with

(d) copies of Quality Assurance accreditation certificates covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedure(s) and audit process(es) comply with the appropriate quality standards

 

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

 

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with *********.(AMEND TO THE COMPANY NAME)

c. .Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

d. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

e. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

f. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

g. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

h. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

 

 

I will require this information within the next fourteen days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

XXXX (type, don't sign).

 

 

 

At the same time you could submit an N244 striking out the claim !!!!

  • Haha 1

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Moving to the Legal Forums...


PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what is stated is my own opinion and from what I have learnt from this forum and my own experiences.

 

DEBT COLLECTION LETTER/SAR/AGREEMENT TEMPLATES ARE HERE - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?65-legislation

 

IF WE HAVE BEEN HELPFUL -PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE GIVE A DONATION TO HELP US TO CONTINUE HELPING YOU

 

I AM HAPPY TO RECEIVE PM's AND I WILL RESPOND IF I FEEL I CAN ASSIST BUT WHEN YOU DO CAN YOU PLEASE PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD ON WHICH YOU WOULD LIKE ME TO COMMENT - THANK YOU

 

IMPORTANT - If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.

Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Private message facilities are offered for users to communicate issues that are/or could be seen to be inappropriate for posting on the main forum.Site rules explain this in more detail.

If you are approached by private message with a view to asking you to visit another website,please inform the site team via the report icon.

 

Forum rules - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forum-rules-please-read/9-forum-rules-please-read.html

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Thank you all so very very much, especially you 42Man. What a brilliant letter. I will be sending this today.

 

We were discussing this last night and the series of events re RW was as follows:

 

We were paying Metropolitan a nominal amount off the debt until early 2008 when I received a phone call at home. I was alone in the house as I had recently come home from hospital having badly broken my leg.

 

A very aggressive woman was demanding money from me but wouldn't tell me who she was or what company she was from. I kept asking her if she was from Metropolitan. She refused to say what company she was from and wouldn't answer me when I asked her if she was from Metropolitan. She got increasingly aggressive even though I kep telling her I was sat in a chair with a plaster cast on and couldn't get to my purse to get my cards. I offered her my OH's mobile number but again she refused to accept it. In the end, I had no choice but to put the phone down on her. i was really upset and quite shaken and when they rang again the next day my OH answered and complained about their behaviour. That was the beginning of months of harrassment until we changed our phone number. We 've had various letters since, some demanding money, others sympathising with our predicament and offering us a reduced figure but during all this, they've not given us the information we asked for. At one point we even had 3 defaults on our file all for the same thing - HSBC, Metropolitan and RW.

 

I really did think when we received the court papers that this was it and they had finally got us. But you have given me new hope.

 

Thank You :D

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Hi there,

 

From the dates you have stated, it was almost close to being statute barred.

 

Unfortunately, the N1 looks to be the genuine article and will need to be dealt with.

 

Do the Acknowledgment of Service, defending all, do not contend jurisdiction and do not submit a defence.

 

I would suggest getting a Consumer Credit Agreement request off to Robinson Way immediately. This will cost you £1.00,

Template letter here - http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/581-cca-request-letter

 

Amend to suit, do NOT sign the request,use a £1.00 postal order and send by Recorded Delivery.

 

I would also suggest sending a Data Subject Access Request to HSBC as well. This will cost a fee of £10.00. Template letter here - http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/576-subject-access-request-debt-a-dca

 

Again, amend to suit, do NOT sign, enclose £10.00 postal order and send by Recorded Delivery.

 

Snoops - the OPp said that they were making nominal payments until 2007 doesn't that mean that the six years starts to run from then


If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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Snoops - the OPp said that they were making nominal payments until 2007 doesn't that mean that the six years starts to run from then

 

Yep, but the OP stated that after snoops had posted :-). A clear 6 year window of not acknowledging the debt is required for stat barred.

 

On a personal note: couldnt give you rep for another thread you replied on this morning but wanted to acknowledge all the hard work you've put in on several threads recently.

 

S.


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Deal with your debts:

STEP ONE - Dont Panic! | STEP TWO - Priority & Non Priority Debts | STEP THREE - Personal Budget Sheet | STEP FOUR - A SAFE bank Account | STEP FIVE - Dealing with Priority Debts | STEP SIX - Non-priority Debts | STEP SEVEN - Non-Priority Debt-Repayment Opt1 | STEP EIGHT - Non-Priority Debt-Repayment Opt2 | STEP NINE - Perils of Consolidation | STEP TEN - RE-Evaluate Frequently

 

***** SERIOUSLY IN DEBT, DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO, TRY NationalDebtLine's MoneySteps *****

 

 

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On a personal note: couldnt give you rep for another thread you replied on this morning but wanted to acknowledge all the hard work you've put in on several threads recently.

 

S.

 

It's not just me - we all seem, you included, to be working hard - there just seems to be thread after thread after thread...

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If I've helped feel free to add to my reputation.

 

I am not a Practising Lawyer. My comments are my opinion only. You should not rely upon those comments and should always take your own professional advice from a practising Solicitor or Barrister

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They've told us his JSA will end in September and I don't quite know what will happen then.

 

What they mean by this is that contribution based JSA will stop. What happens after then is that you fill in a form showing both of your incomes and any savings etc and you will then qualify for income-based JSA which is generally the same amount of money.

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Just keep a close eye on the timescales....you have to acknowledge receipt of the claim form within 14 days of the date on the claim form....state that you will be defending all (if that is your intention). Then you get a further 14+3 days in which to submit your defence, which you should be able to do online, however it is slightly early to submit a defence as you need to give them a chance to answer your CPR request....BUT don't miss the deadlines.....especially for the acknowledgment of the claim, this .must be done within 14 days of the date on the claim form...


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Brighteyes, was there any PPI on the credit cards or loans?

 

Have you claimed back any charges from the credit cards you both have?


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There is PPI on a couple of our credit cards but I don't know about the loan as we haven't seen the agreement. There are loads of charges on the cards now but we haven't claimed back any. To be honest, we've become a bit flummoxed by it all. OH has only been out of work since March but everything has escalated so quickly - we've gone from managing everything and getting by to being up to our neck in dca's. It's scary how quickly it can all go wrong.

 

One good note though. We heard about our claim for mortgage interest relief today and they've agreed it. It's being backdated to June and the payments we are going to get from now on coupled with the backdated amount means that our arrears will be more or less paid off by September which at least will get the mortgage company off our backs. Our rate is due to drop down in September to standard variable from 6.5% so that'll take the heat off. One piece of good news in a sea of disaster!!!

 

But thanks again to everyone here. You are all brilliant and as soon as we are straight I will definitely contribute. My hubby runs a blog himself so I know how much it costs to keep these things running.

 

xxx

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I'm just completing the acknowledgement online and want to make sure I get it right. Do I submit a defence now or just the acknowledgement of service?

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I'm just completing the acknowledgement online and want to make sure I get it right. Do I submit a defence now or just the acknowledgement of service?

 

Just the acknowledgement and the defending all off the claim (if thats what youre doing)

 

S.


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