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lorri-croft

Stat demand - ARROW GLOBAL LLC ***WON + COSTS ***

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I’m new to this site and desperately need urgent advice (easy to understand terms please) regarding an original Monument Credit Card debt which was passed to Arrow Global LLC and Cope’s Solictiors are threatening legal action.

The card is my husband’s but I do all the financial/debt dealings so I’ve just written this summary of events as ‘I’ rather than ‘he’.

 

Here’s a brief history.

 

 

Early July 2007

Letter from Monument advising Barclays transferring all its’ rights under Monument card to Raphael’s Bank. Then said Raphael’s Bank were ‘transferring all of it’s rights in amounts owing to Compucredit International Acquisition Corporation’ (CCAIC). All records including personal information were to be ‘provided to Raphael’s Bank and members of Compucredit group of companies’.

 

(This letter was headed ‘Monument’ and at the bottom had ‘Monument, trading name of Barclays Bank PLC, Registered in England, Registered No. 1026167, Registered Office 1 Churchill Place, London, E14 5HP’)

 

25 July 2007

Letter received referring to previous letter advising rights had now been transferred under Monument Card to CCAIC and that CCIAC were ‘transferring the account including all rights and balance to Arrow Global LLC’. Arrow Global LLC were appointing CBS Transcom to manage the account.

 

(This letter was headed ‘Monument’ and at the bottom it had ‘Monument is a trading name of Compucredit UK Ltd, Registered in England, Registered No 6032187, The Portland Building, 25 High Street, Crawley, RH10 1BG’).

 

3 August 2007

 

Letter received from Arrow Global LLC advising assignment of Monument card ‘including all rights and balance’ had taken place. Total balance was quoted.

 

Also said ‘both under the terms of the assignment and as defined by the Data Protection Act 1998, Arrow Global Ltd was now the Data Controller of personal data’.

 

I ‘have the right to access data held on payment of a fee by contacting Arrow Global Ltd, 57-61 Mortimer Street, London W1W 8HS’. Gave Credit and Business Services Ltd details (including address at CBS House, Alban Park, Hatfield Road, St Albans) as they were to manage the account.

 

 

(This Letter although headed Arrow Global LLC a Sallie Mae Company, had no further Arrow Global LLC details)

 

 

August to October 2007

Received three letters from CBS Transcom.

The debt, whilst at Monument, had an agreed repayment programme of £5.00 per month, which I requested continuation of. I included I&E, list of creditors and details of personal (and tragic) circumstances that put us in position in first place. However, they decined request, asking for unaffordable monthly payments (to repay within 2 years).

 

 

8 November 2007

 

Letter from Cope’s Solicitors. Formal Notice of Intent to issue Legal Proceedings on behalf of Arrow Global LLC.

 

I wrote to Cope’s advising personal circumstances, that could only pay £5 pr month at the time and that, if it went to Court, I hoped a Judge would look sympathetically at case in view of the circumstances that led us to the financial difficulties.

 

 

29 February 2008

 

Letter from CBS Transcom as we hadn’t settled account insisting on an immediate payment and monthly (unaffordable) payments or their client Arrow Global LLC will ‘take steps to secure its interest, which may include legal proceedings’.

 

 

My husband phoned CBS and spoke to a Sue ****. She said that, the letters we had been receiving should not have been sent and that, instead of agreed repayment of £5 being placed on the account upon transfer, that a ‘code 5’ had been put on, meaning automated letters were being sent chasing the debt. She agreed to continue £5 per month until we provided a revised I&E in May.

 

 

April – August 08

 

Letter then received from CBS declining £5! Then further letter declining increased offer of £15 per month (made when revised I&E was sent).

 

 

Letter from Cope’s threatening legal action again. I once again wrote to them saying, surely it is in their clients’ interest to accept steadily increasing payments rather than run the risk of going to Court and the Judge seeing we are doing our best for ALL the creditors and ruling on a small monthly payment?

 

 

Another letter from CBS (same as previous received in Feb 08) requesting (unaffordable) minimum payments.

 

Then they telephoned and spoke to my husband. He said, he could only pay what was affordable within our budget (by then we had increased all creditor payments to £30 per month) and if that was not acceptable their client would have to take him to court.

 

 

24 October 2008

 

Threatening letter from Cope’s Solicitors. (Address Unit F, The Courtyard, Alban Park, Hatfield Road, St Albans, Hertfordshire, AL4 0LA. Tel 01727 731139 Fax 01727 840234) signed ‘Copes’.)

 

We act for the above (Arrow Global LLC) who instruct that you owe £####. You have previously received notice pursuant to the Law of Property Act 1925, that our client obtained the debt by way of assignment under account number ################.

You have failed to make payment as requested and/or you have refused to make payment. Our client is no longer prepared to tolerate your failure to pay the debt and we have been instructed to consider taking legal proceedings against you in the County Court unless you pay the sum of £#### within 10 days from the date of this letter. Our client is confident of obtaining a judgement against you for the sum owed plus court fees and solicitors costs.It is not believed you have a legitimate or any defence.’

The ‘bog standard’ letter warns of ‘Warrant of Execution’, ‘Attachment of Earnings Order’, Examination of Debtor’ as methods of enforcement available to their client.

The letter finally warns that ‘many debtors believe creditors will not pursue small debts via the courts. Arrow Global LLC has no hesitation and all costs and expenses will be added to your debt and vigirously pursued’.

 

 

 

 

I have a number of questions I would be grateful if could be answered (layman’s terms), plus advice on how to proceed.

 

 

Let me add that, we do not dispute the debt is owed, but it was originally to Monument, who HAD agreed a repayment programme. This all went wrong once the debt was transferred and, we are now being pursued for payments that are unaffordable. We have never missed a payment and, have steadily increased from £5 to the £30 we are currently paying each month.

 

 

What we want to ascertain is whether Arrow Global/Cope’s/CBS have legitimate rights to pursue the debt or not and, if there is any way to avoid this going to court so we can continue making affordable payments.

 

  • How do I know if all the transfers have been undertaken legitimately?

  • Did CCIAC have the right to transfer the debt to Arrow Global LLC?

  • Are Arrow Global LLC part of CCIAC group of companies?

  • Is it correct that Arrow Global LLC is a US company and how does that affect their rights to chase a debt through UK courts?

  • Arrow Global Ltd has been mentioned as Data Controller. What exactly does that mean? Why a different company?

  • Cope’s solicitors. Are they part of CBS Transcom as they share same address and fax number on correspondence?

I’ve read a number of threads about obtaining your Data and requesting ‘Deed of Assignment’.

 

  • What is the difference between Notice of Assignment and Deed of Assignment and why ask for a Deed of Assignment?

  • Why ask for their Data?

  • Should I request either of these and who I should direct these requests to if appropriate? If I do this, where is the best link to standard letters?

  • Should I also cc. copies of these to Cope’s solicitors?

  • In the meantime, should I continue with the monthly payments I can afford (hoping that they can’t take it to court to request more) or advise I am with-holding until the information is provided and, will forward what I would have sent once information received? ( Ultimately, I want the debt repaid, just at a rate that is affordable).

  • Is there anything else you could advise that might help?

 

 

Thanking everyone that reads or responds in advance.

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Welcome to CAG. First of all I'd suggest you forget what you said about you acknowledging the debt. If you want to get anywhere with these morons you need to dispute the debt or you'll end up with a CCJ. First step is to send a CCA request along with a £1 postal order. Send it recorded or special delivery. Do not use your usual signature, though they've probably got it anyway if you've wrote previously. DO NOT TALK ON THE PHONE to them. If they phone don't answer security questions. Tell them your legal advisor has told you 'writing only'. Kept a record of everything and keep us updated on this thread. Use the letter below, (copy and paste), altering the red bits. They have a fortnight to reply after that you are within your rights to withold payments until they come up with the CCA, (if at all). Don't worry and keep us posted. When was the card taken out. I suspect it's quite a few years ago and that's good as they probably haven't got a valid CCA. No CCA equals no payments. Have a read round here and you'll see what I mean. Send the letter to whoever is demanding payment for the debt. (Cope's). P.S Where the letter says'we' use 'I' instead.

 

1 High Street,

Newtown,

Kent

R21 4RH

 

 

June 28, 2006

 

 

The Loan Company

Company House,

Church Street,

Newtown,

Kent,

R1 7HG

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:− Account/Reference Number 4563210025897412

 

With reference to the above agreement, we would be grateful if you would send us a copy of this credit agreement.

 

We understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79), we are entitled to receive a copy of our credit agreement on request. We enclose a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act.

 

We understand a copy of our credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days.

 

We understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

 

We look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

Mr A N Other

Edited by twofoot

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Thanks.

Monument Card was taken out in 2004. Funny thing is, I haven't got a copy of the agreement myself, which is unusual as I usually keep pretty much everything (I've even got the letter welcoming new customer and the Welcome booklet).

I'll get the letter done today (unsigned) and post recorded tomorrow. Can you confirm who I should be sending it to?

 

a. The solicitors (Cope's) who have sent the letter on behalf of their client, Arrow Global LLC.

b. Arrow Global LLC the client (Although no contact details ever supplied (A US Company?)

c. Arrow Global Ltd ,who are supposedly the Data Controllers for Arrow Global Ltd at 57-61 Mortimer Street, London

d. CBS Transcom who are the agents appointed to manage the debt by Arrow Global LLC.

 

Or more than one of the above???

 

It's very confusing as there are so many parties involved and I don't want to send it to the wrong party.

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Hi, agree with twofoot, send it either to Arrow Global LLC or Copes who are acting for them, dont sign just type your name and keep the postal receipt.

 

If this ever did become a court claim, you could have a field day putting them to strict proof that all those assignments are above board ;) IMHO


Please note i have no legal training any advice i give comes from my own experience and from what i have learned on this site

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I too received an identical letter from Cope's dated 24/10/2008.

This is also regarding a Monument Credit Card.

I have a DMP through the CCCS for around 10 creditors - all of them agreed the proposed payments except Monument, but they did eventually agree.

The first I knew that the debt had been sold on was when I had a phone call from CBS Transcom demanding an increased payment. I explained my situation and CCCS sent them an updated statement. Transcom accepted the offer verbally, but telephone me every month trying to get an increase. When I told them it was pointles to keep phoning every month, they told me it was their policy.

I was shocked to get the threatening letter from Cope's, and was going to phone them today to try to work something out - like you I do not dispute the debt, have never missed a payment, and fully intended to pay it off. However, their attitude irritates me, and I think the advice from 'twofoot' to ask for a CCA and DOA excellent - it is certainly what I'm going to do. Good Luck:)

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Hmmm - Cope's Solicitors of Unit F, The Courtyard, Alban Park, Hatfield Road, St Albans, HERTS, AL4 0LA is a branch. The main office, where the only solicitor is based, is in Kings Nympton, DEVON. The AA has the distance between the two offices as being 215 miles. The only regulated "principal in this organisation" Christopher John Astley Cope is practising on his own account and there are no solicitors based at St Albans. That's one hell of a commute each morning and afternoon!

 

When I received a letter from Cope's purporting to act on behalf of a debt collector (not Arrow) I wrote to the Devon office and invited the aforementioned solicitor to attend a county court with me to explain to the judge why he was trying to claim money that had already been paid to another creditor. He declined the invitation and I never heard from him, or the greedy barstewards who rent his name, again.

 

The situation is that Cope knows not what is being said in his name. I'd write to him, at Hammets, Kings Nympton, Umberleigh, EX37 9ST, and ask if he is aware of the ballcocks being spouted in his name by the unqualified twerps in St Albans. If he declines to respond, or claims to support these drones, report him to the Solicitors Regulation Authority.

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Hi again.

Thanks Twofoot for your advice. I'm sending CCA request (unsigned) with £1 PO today recorded to Cope's Solicitors. Will wait to see what happens next.

 

Interesting info about Cope's, Nailpost.I'll bear it in mind for the future.

 

 

Just a couple of questions about the CCA request.

  • If they don't provide it, can they still take (husband) to Court (in which case I presume we'd have to contest it to the Judge?)
  • If they do provide it, but outside the timescales, does it make any difference?
  • If they provide within the timescales (and after examination it appears ok), what is the next step?

I've read other threads saying NOA /DOA request to confirm assignment was genuine and they are entitled to chase debt (through Courts if necessary).

 

All we've ever had were letters, the only one which quoted a balance was Arrow Global LLC letter 3/8/08 as already detailed (which never even had a contact address for Arrow LLC on it, only the data controller Arrow Global Ltd address) and the balance was wrong. Was this the NOA?

 

Please post if you can answer any of my questions.

Thanks.

Will Keep you posted on events as they happen.

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Hi again.

Thanks Twofoot for your advice. I'm sending CCA request (unsigned) with £1 PO today recorded to Cope's Solicitors. Will wait to see what happens next.

 

Interesting info about Cope's, Nailpost.I'll bear it in mind for the future.

 

 

 

 

Just a couple of questions about the CCA request.

  • If they don't provide it, can they still take (husband) to Court (in which case I presume we'd have to contest it to the Judge?) Yes and presume you will not Defend
  • If they do provide it, but outside the timescales, does it make any difference? No they are in Default of your Sec 78 request and therefore the account is in dispute but they will ignore that also
  • If they provide within the timescales (and after examination it appears ok), what is the next step? Its enforcable if complete and contains the perscibed terms but the account may contain penalty charges which still renders it in dispute and you can defend on that basis also if not assigned correctly and if no default/or invalid default issued then again you defend the process

I've read other threads saying NOA /DOA request to confirm assignment was genuine and they are entitled to chase debt (through Courts if necessary).They can only instigate litigation if the Assignment is fully ie Equitable and they ae not representing the OC

 

All we've ever had were letters, the only one which quoted a balance was Arrow Global LLC letter 3/8/08 as already detailed (which never even had a contact address for Arrow LLC on it, only the data controller Arrow Global Ltd address) and the balance was wrong. Was this the NOA? Not sure without seeing it most DCAs dont know themselves what equates to a valid NoA

 

Please post if you can answer any of my questions.

Thanks.

Will Keep you posted on events as they happen.

 

Regards

 

Andy:cool:


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Further to my original post 26/10/08 following a threatening letter from Copes' solicitors, and subsequent CCA request posted recorded delivery to them (unsigned/with £1 fee) here's an update.

 

They must have passed this on to CBS Transcom, agents acting for client Arrow Global LLC, because letter received dated 7th November from CBS.

 

"We write further to your letter dated 28th August 2008". (actually our letter was 27th October!)

"The documentation that you require has been requested from our client. As soon as the documentation is received at this office, we will forward this to you immediately.

If you require any further information, please do not hesitate to contact us."

 

We await further developments....

In the meantime, we've started receiving phone calls (they are automated ones, asking you to confirm you are who they are trying to reach and, asking you to hold, then they are too busy so will try again!)

 

  • Should we start to keep a record of how many/when etc.. as others have suggested on previous threads?

  • Should we write anything further to CBS Transcom at this time?

Perhaps reminder of 'not able to pursued debt as a/c in dispute 'til CCA provided'. Or 'will only correspond by letter so stop trying to reach by phone?'

 

  • Also, should we ask for proof that the debt was legally assigned to their client at this time , or save that request 'til later ( if the CCA turns up, or they try to go to Court without CCA being provided?)

Any suggestions?

 

Thanks.

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Send them this to stop the harassment calls,

 

I DO NOT AKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: = xxxxxxxxxxxxx ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

I am writing in relation to the quantity and frequency of telephone calls that I have received from your company, which I deem to be personally harassing.

 

I have verbally requested that these stop, but I am still receiving calls.

 

I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only.

 

You are reminded of the following under The Administration of Justice Act 1970.

 

Section 40 of the act provides that a person commits an offence if, with the object of coercing another person to pay money claimed from the other as a debt due under contract, he or she:

 

(a) harasses the other with demands for payment which by their frequency, or the manner or occasion of their making, or any accompanying threat or publicity are calculated to subject him or his family or household to alarm, distress or humiliation;

(b) falsely represents, in relation to the money claimed, that criminal proceedings lie for failure to pay it;

© falsely represent themselves to be authorized in some official capacity to claim or enforce payment;

(d) utters a document falsely represented by him to have some official character or purporting to have some official character which he knows it has not.

 

I am of the view that your harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

 

Further to this all calls from your Doorstep Collectors must also cease unconditionally and with immediate effect. I note that there is only an implied license under English Common Law for certain people to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.).

 

Take note, I revoke license under English Common Law for you, or any of your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so without my permission, you will then be liable to damages for a tort of trespass. You would also be conspiring in a trespass if you sent someone to visit me nevertheless. Any trespassers you attempt to send therefore will be dealt with accordingly.

 

Be further advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded.

 

 

I look forward to your reply

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

Proof of Assignment No, keep that up your sleeve for a court claim


Please note i have no legal training any advice i give comes from my own experience and from what i have learned on this site

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Thanks Creditcardmug for your #10 post regarding stopping calls. Hadn't sent this yet as, only just started receiving the automated calls and they have not been regular, more intermittent. Plus, as we haven't actually spoken to them, haven't verbally requested they stop (as per your letter).

 

NOW HAVE FURTHER DEVELOPMENT which need URGENT advice on.

 

Received letter today, from Cope's Solicitors as follows:

 

As you are aware, we act for the above (Arrow Global LLC) in relation to the debt you owe in the above sum.Our instructions are that you have been afforded every opportunity to pay that which is due and owing and you have failed to do so on realistic terms or at all.

As a consequence of instruction, we are in the process of preparing a Statutory Demand to be served upon you personally at your home address. This will involve a Process Server calling at your address to deliver the document to you. If you are not at home when they call, they will return by appointment and if you are not at home on the second occasion, you will be subject to a substituted service. Accordingly there is no escaping service of the document.

A Statutory Demand provides you with a period of 18 days from the service of the document to pay or secure the debt to satisfaction of Arrow Global LLC. If you fail to deal with the demand, Arrow Global LLC can proceed to have you declared Bankrupt. You are no doubt aware of the far reaching consequences of Bankruptcy for you and affect it can have on those around you. For example, the Official Receiver or Trustee in Bankruptcy could sell your family home or any other property in which you have an interest.

Please note the Process Server is not in a position to discuss your case or accept payment and/or offer of the same. Any payment you wish to make must be made via this office.

This matter has reached a critical stage and we urge you to obtain legal advice from a suitably qualified solicitor.

As you can see from the thread, the last letter we sent was a CCA request to Cope's, receiving a response from CBS Transcom (Arrow's agents) saying they were contacting their client to request the documentation.

 

1. WHAT SHOULD WE SEND NOW IN LIGHT OF RECEIPT OF THIS LETTER?

2. CAN THEY DO THIS AS THE CCA IS STILL NOT PROVIDED?

3. Surely Cope's should know that they shouldn't proceed without provision of CCA documents?

 

4. Also, we were due to sent a further payment early December. Should we continue or stop payments altogether? There seems to be conflicting advice in this respect on the CAG forum.

 

5. Should I transfer this thread to LEGAL ISSUES and if so, can you advise how to do this?

I'm now REALLY worried and terrified about people coming to the house and this escalating as they say. HELP.

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1. Send nothing. Just prepare yourself for the possibility of receiving a statutory demand, and know how you are going to deal with this.

 

2. They can issue a statutory demand with no CCA. However, the lack of one gives you an opportunity to dispute the entire amount of the alleged debt, and have the demand set aside.

 

3. They should know a lot of things, but they don't. Or, if they do, they assume you will not. Interesting observations by NailPost about Copes.

 

4. If you sent the CCA request on 28th October, then they are well in default of it by now. I would strongly suggest that you cease payment. I will give my reasons.

 

5. Only the site team can move threads. I would say it is better where it is for now, as no court papers have been issued.

 

In the first place, I will explain why I believe it is correct to suspend payments. I suspect you have been reading the controversial thread where surfaceagentx20 suggested that another poster continued paying when no CCA was produced. I believe that x20 was totally right in what he said, BUT that he had misread the situation.

 

I believe x20 was posting in the belief that the account in question was a running account still in operation, whereas it was in fact an account which had already been defaulted on, terminated, and sold to a debt collection agency. There is a world of difference.

 

When you have a credit card account, you have a minimum payment which you need to make each month. If those payments are met, the creditor cannot default you, or take legal action to recover the remaining balance.

 

When surfaceagentx20 advised the original poster in that thread to keep paying despite the lack of a CCA, I believe he thought that the account was still in this situation. The advice to save up the money if you did stop paying, because all of the payments would be due at once if an enforceable agreement did turn up, would reinforce that.

 

Once a debt collection agency has bought an alleged debt, the rules are totally different. As you know from your own experience, paying debt collectors does nothing to stop them coming back and demanding more money. Even when payments are increased, they will still demand that you increase them even more.

 

Paying debt collectors is like giving hard drugs to an addict. They do not satiate the habit or the desire, they merely create a need for ever greater doses.

 

In my opinion it is foolish to continue to pay a debt collector when there is no enforceable agreement. I stress here that this is a totally different situation from an existing arrangement with an original creditor, where the potential consequences are quite different.

 

Every time you pay a debt collector, not only do you lose that money for good, you also extend the window of time that that debt collector has to come up with an enforceable agreement before the alleged debt becomes statute barred. If you make regular token payments, you extend the window indefinitely.

 

If you feel morally bound to pay off the debt, you are far better advised to save up the money yourself, and then try to negotiate a full and final settlement. If this is done properly, it prevents the creditor coming back to demand more money further down the line should an enforceable agreement turn up.

 

Do NOT worry, and certainly do not feel terrified about a Process Server turning up at your home. If this happens, they are only handing you a piece of paper. The important step now is to prepare for the possible issue of a statutory demand, so you can meet the challenge head on.

 

I am assuming here that you would want to avoid bankruptcy. In some cases, where a person is deep in debt, has no assets, and is living on a very low income, the thought of someone else paying for their bankruptcy is actually attractive. Of course, in such a case, the creditor will never follow through with the petition because there is nothing to be gained.

 

In order to have a statutory demand set aside, you need to be able to fulfil one or more of certain conditions, which you can find here -

 

Legal Issues Explained - Statutory Demand

 

In your case, you will need to dispute the entire amount of the alleged debt. You have proof that your CCA request was received in the form of a letter stating that they will obtain the information from the original creditor. As of now, that request remains in default.

 

There is also a possibility of the default notice and/or the notice of assignment being invalid, which will only strengthen your case.

 

Download forms 6.4 and 6.5 from here -

 

Forms

 

and have a study of them. If a statutory demand is issued, these are what you will need to fill in.

 

Try not to worry, just acquaint yourself with the procedure and with the forms, and then if they do issue a statutory demand, you will know exactly how to handle the situation, and be confident in so doing.

 

SH (insomniac)


All opinions of ScabHunter are offered in good faith and believed to be accurate and true. Please note, though, that I have no legal training and am human like the rest of us (except the DCA trolls).

 

If you have received court papers, PLEASE POST EARLY. We can help, but only if we are within the timescales.

 

I am happy to receive PMs (and friendship requests!), but if you want me to look at your thread please leave a link to it.

 

If I have been helpful, please feel free to click the old scales!

 

____________________________________________________

 

LIGHT RELIEF - SCABHUNTER STYLE

 

A reply to a DCA troll with a limited vocabulary

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bear-garden/131409-cheekiness-towards-dca-199.html#post1840093

 

A template letter accepting a full and final settlement

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/104668-cabot-windywoo-4.html#post1813490

 

A reply to ARE letter dated 13th November 20088

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/172657-mbna-letter-asking-me.html#post1863523

 

A reply to a naughty DCA suggesting that the alleged debtor was ignoring the poor dears, and promising a nice social visit

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/167422-help-needed-re-letters-3.html#post1850119

 

 

 

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Thanks ScabHunter for your (knowledgeable) response. Hope you caught up with some sleep this morning!

 

As you must appreciate, I'm reluctant to just 'sit back and wait' for the SD to arrive. I would prefer for it not to even get to that stage, if at all possible.

 

I have read that many DCA's use these as tactics to 'scare' you into paying, although I am aware that there is a possibility they are serious.

However, noting Nailpost's comments regarding Cope's unqualified staff, maybe they are just following set procedures, without thought to the lack of CCA provision ?

 

I would just feel more empowered sending something to them (maybe to Mr C direct too?), perhaps a Formal Complaint reminding them that CCA request not complied with in the hopes that they then realise that I know what I'm talking about and back off (at least for the time being).

 

Obviously, I value your (and anyone else's) comments in this respect.

Thanks.

Edited by lorri-croft
Typo

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Hiya lorri-croft

 

ive just found your thread and looks like you have some fab advice

 

all i can offer is some support to you as this is all alien to me too

 

but keep positive and the way i see if for myself now is had i not found cag and these wonderful people i would really not know what to do and i would have made myself ill from all the worry - but now i dont have any fear, there is always ways to dispute, defend and resolve.

 

take care and have a relaxing afternoon and a fun day to all

 

ciao maz


Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.:)

 

my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"

 

This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel :D

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Lorri-croft. The fact that they have failed to comply with your CCA request is a good ground on which to apply to have the SD set aside. If you get it set aside you can also claim costs from Copes.


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Any thoughts on my post #13 regarding not just waiting for SD to happen? Sending a letter in response?

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Sorry, got your PM, should have replied earlier - been very busy with other projects over the weekend.

 

There are some instances, when dealing with debt collectors, where there is an objectively correct course of action. There are many other instances where it is entirely down to the individual how they choose to handle it.

 

This is one of those.

 

As with a game or sport, some people will naturally have an "attacking" style, and want to be proactive in taking the game to the enemy. Others will have a far more "counterattacking" style, waiting for the enemy to attack them, reveal their tactics and make their mistakes before they make the countering moves to win the game.

 

When it comes to dealing with debt collectors, I naturally favour the counterattacking approach. Debt collectors are prone to making mistakes, so I think it can often make sense to allow those mistakes to be made before you make any aggressive countering moves.

 

Of course there are limits to this. Being passive doesn't mean being lazy, or doing nothing. It means being as prepared as you can be to meet whatever move the enemy may decide to make.

 

This is my natural predilection. Even when I think back to my boyhood days as a county chess player, I was far more of the counterattacking school than the overly aggressive one. You are clearly a totally different personality. You obviously like to go on the attack and gain control of a situation right from the start. I don't know if you've ever played chess, but if you have, I imagine you playing very much in the style of Mikhail Tal.

 

The one overriding consideration is that you are far more likely to be effective if you develop a style compatible with your natural tendencies.

 

By all means go on the attack if that is what you feel comfortable with. They are in default of your CCA request, so you are perfectly entitled to initiate a complaint through Arrow's formal complaints procedure, which can be escalated to the Financial Ombudsman Service if the complaint is not satisfied. To get the FOS to look at it, though, you would need more than just an argument over the enforceability of an agreement. The FOS just say that is a matter for the courts.

 

The OFT Debt Collection Guidance also says these are deceptive and/or unfair methods -

 

2.6 (h)

ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

 

2.8 (k)

not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt.

 

As you are disputing the alleged debt because they have not complied with your legitimate request under the CCA 1974, you are perfectly entitled to complain to the OFT. The OFT will not take up individual complaints, but the data is recorded.

 

If you do go on the attack, please make sure you also prepare your defences, because these attacks will not prevent the issue of an SD if they are hell bent on it. Leaving yourself open to attack through failing to prepare your defence is not a matter of style, it is simply poor play.

 

SH


All opinions of ScabHunter are offered in good faith and believed to be accurate and true. Please note, though, that I have no legal training and am human like the rest of us (except the DCA trolls).

 

If you have received court papers, PLEASE POST EARLY. We can help, but only if we are within the timescales.

 

I am happy to receive PMs (and friendship requests!), but if you want me to look at your thread please leave a link to it.

 

If I have been helpful, please feel free to click the old scales!

 

____________________________________________________

 

LIGHT RELIEF - SCABHUNTER STYLE

 

A reply to a DCA troll with a limited vocabulary

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bear-garden/131409-cheekiness-towards-dca-199.html#post1840093

 

A template letter accepting a full and final settlement

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/104668-cabot-windywoo-4.html#post1813490

 

A reply to ARE letter dated 13th November 20088

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/172657-mbna-letter-asking-me.html#post1863523

 

A reply to a naughty DCA suggesting that the alleged debtor was ignoring the poor dears, and promising a nice social visit

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/167422-help-needed-re-letters-3.html#post1850119

 

 

 

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Another advantage of playing the waiting game is "playing possum" at the moment, these "people" believe that they have you on the back foot, they have threatened you and you have increased your payments, whether these two things are connected is unimportant, they see that they are and as such they feel that they are in control.

 

These companies follow a script and a rigid set of processes, they are very predictable and that's why they are relatively easy to defeat if you know the rules of the game. If you suddenly take an aggressive stance it may make them change their own tactics. better to let them run into your roadblock and face the wrath of the judge for their blatant abuse of process


Hope this helps

 

 

If you feel that this site has helped you in any way please leave a donation if you can afford to do so.

 

If you feel that have been helpful please feel free to tip the scales.

 

 

The large print giveth, but the small print taketh away. ~Tom Waits, Small Change

 

 

Please note: i am not a qualified lawyer, any advice is offered in good faith and is based on my own and others experiences and a penchant for research and a desire to help others to empower themselves

 

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Waiting on the DCA to make their move is my favoured option. They are in DEFAULT of your CCA request. They know that so its not your job to remind them. If they issue a Stat Demand whilst this is in default then its a relatively simple matter to have it set aside. If however you point out their default to them and they produce a CCA along with a Stat Demand what are you going to use as a defence to the Stat Demand.

 

I am a great believer in if you give the DCAs enough rope they will eventually do the right thing

 

gallows.jpg


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Thanks all for your responses and support so far.

 

ScabHunter, Thank you for your help and I just wanted to say that I do appreciate that you (and everyone else posting for that matter) have 'other lives' beyond CAG and can't always respond straight away. Just my worrying and impatient nature I suppose, made worse when it is such an important matter.

Not a chess-player I'm afraid. Something I would have liked to learn but never did. I think my personality is not so much agressive, more that I like to feel in control! I am definitely a proactive rather than reactive person.

 

Seems like the general consensus is play the waiting game and do not 'show your hand too early'.

 

I'll discuss with hubby (as debts are his). However, I'm sure it will be me doing all the 'donkey work'.

 

Just a question (anyone?)

 

What is the likelihood of a Judge not setting aside a SD for the 'non-production of CCA' as requested?

It's just that, the last few years have not been kind to us and, I feel that, if it were to go wrong for anyone, it would be us!

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hiya lorri-croft

 

i can actually understand your point of view, but coming to terms with all this new way of dealing with stuff, has frightened me in having to think early on i have to do a responce, just lately, ive taken on board others views and how the threads have developed over time and yes i can understand SH view of a chess game

 

its a good way of actually explaining i was very pro active in my early days of this year went into a total panic, it made me ill, off work and desperation in everything i did or worried about doing to keep the creditors at bay,and now after reflection getting better, and educating myself on cag and books, ive become really more laid back, ive realised there is a process to follow and legal processes can also take time,

 

im basically trying to explain my experience that now with time, i realise its what you can do and not what you cant do that will help you in the long run.

 

i just want to support you with comforting words and have belief that things can get better,with time.

 

take care and wonderful advice from others, i wish id had this way back at the beginning of the year, i may not have become so ill, but now im back to my former self and with hope i know i can survive a lot of stuff i just couldnt before

 

have a pleasant eve all ciao for now maz


Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.:)

 

my new motto is,,,",Taking back control of your life and home - such peace is priceless"

 

This is all due to truecall device , have a serious peek at this you will be thankful like I am x laters angel :D

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Hi All,

Just an update on my thread.

Following my forwarding of CCA request to Cope's Solicitors (which they acknowledged and advised they were passing to their client CBS Transcom) and the subsequent nasty letter they sent a few weeks later (mid Nov 08) threatening Bnkruptcy etc.. etc..., I followed your advice.

 

Ignored the letter. Stopped making payments.

 

Nothing happened since.:confused:

 

Intend to do nothing unless we receive either:

 

a. CCA document.

b. Court summons.

 

Either way, will be back for advice.

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Hello Lori

 

hope you still look at this thread!.

 

Today, I received a threatogram from Copes, although Transcom have not supplied a CCA and passed the 12+2 limit back in February this year.

 

Have read your thread here and feel far stronger than I was a few hours ago!

 

Have you had any more correspondance from Transcom/Arrow/Copes or whoever is pretending to be whom at the moment?

 

Thanks, and good luck!

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Hi,

I'm still here.:)

 

Just to answer your question,the only thing that we've had so far is a phone call from Cope's (about 3-4 weeks ago).

 

We have BT 1571 and an automated message was left asking for an urgent call back. Needless to say, as advised on this forum, we WILL NOT respond by phone.

 

I don't intend to do anything more until they make the next move. Then I'll ask for best advice from here again if necessary.

 

If you want specific advice to a particular letter you've received, I suggest you start your own thread and I'm sure someone will guide you through your options (everyone is so supportive).

 

Hope this helps.

 

Regards

 

Lorri :)

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NEED MORE ADVICE PLEASE, anyone?

 

Received letter from ARROW GLOBAL LLC dated 27/05/09.

NOTICE OF INTENTION TO SERVE A STATUTORY DEMAND.

 

If you look at history, we've had various correspondence, all from Cope's or CBS Transcom (acting for Arrow Global LLC) in relation to a debt passed 'round the houses' and, following threat of Stat Demand from Cope's requested CCA agreement copy 27/10/08 via Cope's.

 

This NEW letter from Arrow says the debt is now being dealt with by them internally. Their letter says 'so far as they are aware, the debt is not the subject of any dispute'.

 

  • Should we therefore write to Arrow, advising them of the above, saying there IS a dispute, in case they were never notified by Cope's of our request?
  • If they 'know nothing of a dispute', Should we re-request the CCA agreement from them?

Any advice appreciated.

 

Also, from experience, does anyone know if Arrow LLC are likely to follow through or are they, like Cope's, in the habit of issuing 'threat-o-grams'.

Edited by lorri-croft
typo

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