Can they do this??

[Scarlett2000]

Hiya everyone

I recently had a bailiff chaing me for council tax. I paid the council off directly and they are fine. Since I paid, the bailiff has been chasing me for his fees. The last time he came, he told me he had done a levy on some stuff which was outside my house while I was out. The stuff he did the levy on was my sons bike, and a wheelbrace and a bit of metal, neither of which belong to me. At the moment I am in the process of getting written proof that the stuff was not mine. Therefore, does the levy count? And do I have to pay £120 charges for him having done the levy?

Also today my partner left our front door open while he went to a neighbours to get something and when he came back he found the bailiff in the house. The bailiff said he had rights to enter and could also start removing stuff. My partner kicked him out.

As we have paid the council tax, does he still have right to enter if he finds a way or was he tresspassing and does he still have rights to remove goods?

I would be really grateful for any advice. Also I have no copy of any levy, Ive only seen it on a bit of paper he showed me last time he came. Should I have a copy?

Edited June 30, 2009 by Scarlett2000
Left something out!

[hallowitch]

the levy is unlawful

he cannot levy on children's goods (bike)

he did not leave you a walking possession agreement

The person levying distress on behalf of an authority shall carry with him the written authorisation of the authority, which he shall show to the debtor if so requested; and he shall hand to the debtor or leave at the premises where the distress is levied a copy of this regulation and Schedule 5 and a memorandum setting out the appropriate amount, and shall hand to the debtor a copy of any close or walking possession agreement entered into

[ambershadow]

I think you will also find that if the liability order to the council is paid in full the Bailiff has to take you to county court to get his fee's Not just help himself to your stuff.

If you havent signed anything for him He has no rights and don#t let him in

[ambershadow]

You could always pm tomtubby she is an expert with bailiffs

[Scarlett2000]

Thanks for the advice. Hes due back tomorrow so I'll post how it goes:rolleyes:!

[andie_303]

if a liability order has been satisfied in full (the bailiff fees are not included in the liability) then they cannot just come into your house - he has no grounds, lawfully he will be trespassing and if he removes goods from your house this is theft as he has no warrant to do so!

[ambershadow]

I thought this also Andi...... But Bailiffs depend on you not knowing the law or finding this forum don't they?

[hallowitch]

even if the bailiff had a valid levy (been in your house not levied stuff in the garden)

he would have to write you giving you at least 14 days notice that he was coming to remove goods on levy

Forcing re-entry

The law upon the rights of bailiffs to force re-entry to premises in order to remove

goods previously seized has recently been clarified. In Khazanchi v Faircharm

Investments; McLeod v Butterwick [1998] 2 All ER 901 the Court of Appeal held that

bailiffs may only force re-entry where they are being deliberately excluded from

premises. It will thus be necessary in most cases for the bailiff to notify the debtor in

advance of the date and time of the visit in order to remove this If the debtor is then

absent from home, or refuses entry, force may be employed.

 

can i ask how much the liability order was for

 

or ask yourself this how much are the goods on the levy worth at auction

bike £20/30 thats if it in good condition and was a good bike to start with wheelbase £2/5 bit of scrap metal £0

so he possibly get £35 max debt £ 500/600 also theres the charges you have added to your account for the auction and removal £200

ask the bailiff when he comes tomorrow if he would like to argue the toss with a judge if he thinks this levy is valid or was an excuse to add charges (form 4 complaint)

tell him you would be more than happy to go to court to get the answer to this

and the fact that he levied on a kids bike and he did not leave a walking possession agreement then ask him for his name what court he was certificated at and his number and ask him to show you a copy of the liability order and his proof of id

record it on your mobile phone if you can

[Scarlett2000]

The liability order was for £250, and when you put it like that Hollowitch its so obvious!!

And andi and Ambershadow, I thought that too about him not being able to gain entry if the liability order was payed in full. He just walked in today!

And he looks like a sweet old man!!!

[hallowitch]

even if he had a legal levy and he had 2 visit fees his charges are wrong

1st visit £24.50

2nd visit £18

walking possession fee £12

levy fee on a £250 debt £18.50 12.5%of first £100 4%of £150

total bailiffs fees would be with a valid levy £73

 

not got a lot going for him has he

[tomtubby]

I think you will also find that if the liability order to the council is paid in full the Bailiff has to take you to county court to get his fee's Not just help himself to your stuff.

If you havent signed anything for him He has no rights and don#t let him in

 

I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the bailiff is entitled to some fees. This is because under the statutory regulations covering council tax the bailiff is entitled to his fees FIRST.

 

As an example......

 

1. A Liability Order had been obtained for £750 and a bailiff had visited and was unable to gain entry or levy upon goods.

 

2. The bailiff is entitled to his fees for this visit which is £24.50 for "attending to levy where no levy was made".

 

3. A payment of £750 is paid direct the the council.

 

4. As the bailiff is entitled to have his fee paid FIRST...the local authority are under a DUTY to repay the bailiff company £24.50 from the £750 that has been paid.

 

5. The result of this is that the Liability Order has NOT been paid in full as there is still a balance due of £24.50. Therefore the bailiff is legally entitled to return to the property to collect the £24.50.

 

6. Regulations provide that the bailiff can only charge for 2 visits and as this visit is the 2nd time that he has been to your home he is entitled to be paid a 2nd visit fee of £18.00. In total you owe £42.50.

 

7. HOWEVER, the bailiff has "apparently levied "upon goods . I would challenge the validity of this levy and he has levied upon items that are (a) not owned by you and (b) items that are worthless etc.

 

Finally, if a bailiff has levied then he MUST BY LAW provide a Notice of Seizure listing the items seized and he must also provide details of his name and breakdown of fees.

[letsmakeamark]

You could get a letter of the council to confirm the liablity order has been paid and is no longer valid. do not tell the council anything just confirmation it has been paid off. after which when you recieve your letter from them give it to the bailiff (Using very restrained wording)

[andie_303]

Hi Tom Tubby - Just learning so hope you can help

 

If the council get a liability order for £750 - this is paid to the council after a DCA sends a letter but DOES NOT visit, and after the debt is paid to the council they visit anyway - I take it then there is no fees liable as it was after the fact??

 

If that is true it would depend on when they visited i.e. before or after the liability paid in full - is that correct??

[letsmakeamark]

Once the council issue a letter confirming the liablity order has been paid they can not go back on it. As for the bailiff he can whistle because it then becomes civil.

[hallowitch]

if the liability has been paid after a letter but no visits then in my opinion there should be no charges as bailiffs cant charge for letters only visits

[Guest Happy Contrails]

The law doesnt provide for bailiffs to charge fees for sending a letter for unpaid council tax.

 

For parking tickets its £11.20.

[tomtubby]

Hi Tom Tubby - Just learning so hope you can help

 

If the council get a liability order for £750 - this is paid to the council after a DCA sends a letter but DOES NOT visit, and after the debt is paid to the council they visit anyway - I take it then there is no fees liable as it was after the fact??

 

If that is true it would depend on when they visited i.e. before or after the liability paid in full - is that correct??

 

A bailiff company can send a letter to demand payment...BUT the Statutory Regulations relating to the collection of Council Tax DOES NOT provide for the bailiff company to charge for a letter.

 

If NO visit was made.....then no charges can be applied.

[Scarlett2000]

Right. The bailiff hasnt been back yet. Ive had a letter from Rossendales (Proud to be professional) with a break down on my charges. Its £24.50 for first visit, £100 for attendance with a van (hes been twice since we paid the liability order and was driving a van both times so I think that what he drives anyway) and £30 levy fee.

So, if I can get him to agree the levy is not valid cos he didnt leave a walking possesion agreement when he did it, and the stuff he levied on is worth about £30 max for a £250 liability order so looks like an excuse to add charges, I will only have to pay for the first visit?

And also, if they have to give you 14 days before coming to take stuff can he charge for the van? That charge is made on the same day as the charge for the levy.

Just want to make sure Im prepared for when he does return!!

[hallowitch]

the £24.50 1st visit fee van fee and levy fee are they all on the same day

 

and no he cant charge a van fee the same day he done the levy

[Scarlett2000]

No the 1st visit has a separate date. The levy and attendance with van fees are on the same day.

[tomtubby]

What is on the Walking Possession/Notice of Seizure of Goods & Inventory?

[Scarlett2000]

I dont have either of those. I didnt know he had done a levy until he turned up demanding his fees after I had paid the liability order. I said I only owed him £42.50 at the most because he hadnt been in the house, and he just lifted some sheets on his clipboard, showed me a peice of what looked like graphpaper with 3 items on it and said he had levied on what was outside my house. I havent had anything put through the letterbox either. I had no idea he had done a levy until he told me.

 

Have just looked through all the paperwork to double check and there is a WPA/Notice of distress but they are blank and were left on the first visit which was in January.

Edited July 3, 2009 by Scarlett2000