welcome - court - collectors - fetch car

[The wife]

yeah I know what you mean, but the joys of being a cagger now is that you know you are not alone and hopefully we can make you laugh whilst easing your burden and giving you the chance to talk to people who are going through or have gone through this sort of thing with them.

[postggj]

Conradsfate

 

When You Talk To Welcome

Keep Your Cool

 

Slowly Slowly Catchy Monkey

[Rhia]

You are all absolutely correct these charges are some sort of [problem]. Ad Hoc indeed! It's a Latin term and means something set up for a special purpose such as an ad hoc committee.

Taking it at face value this means it's a charge whacked on for a special purpose. And what exactly would that be? to line the pockets of Welcome?

Furthermore if the original cost of the vehicle was a mere £4,500 then these other costs are gross and must surely come into the UTCCR as unfair charges.

Welcome (or whoever runs the company at the moment) must be asked to explain each and every charge on this account and also must be asked to produce the T&Cs at the time the account was set up and then asked to explain how each of these charges fits in with their T&Cs.

As this is now in the court procedure you can raise a Part 18 request and they have to answer all of these questions (and any others) and produce the relevant documents.

You can then supply an amended defence should the one you have just entered seem incorrect.

 

Addition.

 

Is Welcome a US company? I have a feeling that IBTR may be International Bank Transfer something - rates or regulations. Perhaps the £9k plus figure is being transferred from or to the USA? Dare I suggest it may even be securitised. this might start to get very complicated but you need to ask Welcome what this is without delay and also ask if the loan has been securitised or is a SPV or a similar scheme.

You need Part 18 of the CPR rules.

Edited July 23, 2009 by Rhia

[The wife]

I'd also ask for them to confirm it all in writing or at the very least record the call so you will have proof of everything you were told

[conradsfate]

I've had another letter from IRWIN MITCHELL on behalf of Welcome

 

it says witnesses name = Repesentitives of the Claimant

 

witness to which facts = contract and quantum

 

amount of claim disputed = 6,801.31

 

 

Ha! I don't believe it, at the bottom it says

 

WHILE THE VALUE OF THE CLAIM WOULD INDICATE ALLOCATION TO THE FAST-TRACK, WE BELIEVE THE SMALL CLAIMS TRACK WOULD BE SUFFICENT TO DEAL WITH THE RELATIVELY STRAIGHT FORWARD ISSUE IN DISPUTE

 

(That's sick - it's as though they are basicaly saying to the courts that they are going to win, and that I got no say in it.)

 

What's that about? They said they had handed it back, amazing aint it. Must have found out I took defence in...

[Rhia]

No they are not saying they are going to win - IMO it's the opposite. This is tactics aimed at frightening you into giving in.

 

Because you have said you will defend and they are now trying to cover their sorry asses by keeping it in Small Claims as they don't face costs if they lose. They face all theirs and your costs if they lose in Fast Track.

 

As to their witnesses it's just themselves - hardly independent.

 

Which makes me believe they ain't that confident of a win. Not sure if you have had to answer this question yet, if not you should respond and state firmly that IYO this it should be heard in the Fast Track as there are issues over the various charges on this alleged debt that will need careful examination.

 

Try the following (sorry it's brief but in a hurry)

 

Dear Welcome/Irwin Mitchell, c.c. the XXX County Court

Ref: XXXX

I will be serving a Part 18 request on you within the next 24 hours, however I have to state that I object to this matter being heard in the Small Claims court for the following reasons:

1. The entire debt is well over the £5k limit for Small Claims hearings

2. There are many bissues with the various charges added to this alleged debt which will need careful examination. I therefore respectfully ask that the court hears this case in the Fast Track.

 

Yours etc

SAY ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ELSE. SEND A COPY OF THEIR LETTER WITH THE COPY YOU SEND TO THE COURT. POST REGISTERED TO IRWIN MITCHELL/WELCOME

 

In any event you are disputing the entire amount over £9k so it is clearly FT. As the limit for SC is £5k then the £6,801.31 is also quite obviously over the limit. The court will say no.

 

I am getting a feeling someone is starting to squirm here...and it ain't you. Start the Part 18 request - you should find a template here somewhere and paste it up - we can look at your questions and see if you need to add anything else.

Edited July 24, 2009 by Rhia

[postggj]

conrad

 

have you phoned welcome yet over the items on your ststement

[Rhia]

Frankly I wouldn't phone them at all at this stage. Request EVERYTHING in writing. You need the paper trail. Things can be misunderstood on the phone or they can twist your words. You need to be able to show the judge what their explanation of these charges are.

[The GodMother]

Also i have noticed on the paperwork a VD charge. They seriously need checking out.

 

 

Part 18/CPR

 

Account In Dispute

 

Dear xxxx,

 

I acknowledge receipt of your notice of intended legal action sent by your company on 3rd July 2007 which was received on 6th July 2007.

Please be aware that any proceedings will be extremely vigorously defended and that a counterclaim will be made against ** DCA **. I am unable to respond further at this time, since you have given me inadequate information to investigate the claim. Please note that under the Overriding Objectives, you have a duty to act reasonably at all times.

 

As you are aware, under the pre-action protocols of the Civil Procedure Rules, your letter before action should have included the following information:

4.3 The claimant's letter should —

(a) give sufficient concise details to enable the recipient to understand and investigate the claim without extensive further information;

(b) enclose copies of the essential documents which the claimant relies on;

© ask for a prompt acknowledgement of the letter, followed by a full written response within a reasonable stated period;

(For many claims, a normal reasonable period for a full response may be one month.)

(d) state whether court proceedings will be issued if the full response is not received within the stated period;

(e) identify and ask for copies of any essential documents, not in his possession, which the claimant wishes to see;

(f) state (if this is so) that the claimant wishes to enter into mediation or another alternative method of dispute resolution; and

(g) draw attention to the court's powers to impose sanctions for failure to comply with this practice direction and, if the recipient is likely to be unrepresented, enclose a copy of this practice direction.

I note that your letter failed to enclose copies of the essential documents upon which you will seek to rely, failed to ask for acknowledgement of the letter, failed to ask for a written response within a reasonable period of time, and did not draw attention to the courts powers

to force all parties to comply with the practice direction.

I intend to provide you with a full written response, but as yet I have not got adequate information to investigate your claim.

To enable me to investigate this claim I require specific information regarding the account to be provided forthwith. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

If you fail to disclose this information, I may apply to the court under Part 18 and part 31 of the civil procedure rules.

I will be unable to respond to your claim without this information, and by failing to supply it before starting legal action you would breach the overriding objective of the Civil Procedure Rules.

 

Request for disclosure;

I request that you send me information vital to investigating your claims, including:

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

a. A transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interest, repayments and payments and both the original amount of the loan and any repayments made to it the account.

b. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor.

c. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual

intervention in relation to my account formerly held with ** CREDITOR **.

d. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

e. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

f. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

g. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

h. A genuine copy of any deed of assignment, or proof that you have a legal right to this money.

i. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

j. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

3. Any other documents you will seek to rely upon in court.

4. A copy of your complaints procedure, as required by the Consumer Credit Act 2006.

5. Clarification of the date you acquired the debt, what organisation you acquired it from, their registered office, their company number (if any) and what legal title they had to this debt, and what credit license number they had at the time that the debt was purchased or entered into.

 

Please note, I will respond to your claim in full within 14 days of your providing this information. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, or if you start proceedings without furnishing this information, it will be reported to the Court that you are denying me the opportunity to settle this matter amicably.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I await your rapid response.

Yours Faithfully,